38 replies to this topic

[Commander James Raynor]

I really don't understand why this isn't a hotter topic. Frozen City makes for the worst games in MWO. That huge chasm means that you have to chose between crossing and dying or staying and having 9 minutes of inactivity. The only thing that gets the matches going are the suiciders, that force one team to charge and die. That is a fact: the map with the most stagnat games is Frozen City, and that goes against the whole idea of playing a game. Even a ridiculously unbalanced map would be better, because at least half of the time you could actually play a fun game.

Add to that the fact that it promotes long range builds like gauss/PPC or ER large lasers, which I hate with a passion. This last thing is not an objectively bad thing, it´s just something I dislike, but the stagnant games thing, that's a fact. Why are they (developers) or we (the players) not doing anything about it?

What I mean is: please, erradicate this map from the face of the earth. Get back to the old one, destroy it, rework it (but REALLY rework it). I understand that the developers can't go "ok, we did something awful, we're gonna take it back", because it looks bad, but once in a while they're bound to screw a map, and this is the case. It has gone on for too long and it's only healthy to admit it.

You know what, now that I think about it, just changing the spawn points would do wonders, like they did with incursion mode, Just get rid of the chasm.

Edited by Commander James Raynor, 26 September 2017 - 02:36 PM.

[N0ni]

Commander James Raynor, on 26 September 2017 - 02:36 PM, said:

I understand that the developers can't go "ok, we did something awful, we're gonna take it back", because it looks bad

I would actually rather have them do this because at least they'd be admitting to their mistake and fix it, other than complete silence and deal with it.

Domination on Frozen is probably the worst offender since either your team snipes and gets picked off with a brawl push or there's half your team fighting over the same piece of cover in the circle and everyone is taking dumb hits that normally wouldn't happen with just 1 person there.

Out of curiosity, who actually enjoys Frozen City Domination? Let's get those people's thoughts in here.

[Bigbacon]

Id rather frozen city than crimson straight or river city.

[JP Josh]

well i sorta enjoy it.... the prob is no one wants to push and communicate

[Harlock69]

JP Josh, on 26 September 2017 - 02:50 PM, said:

well i sorta enjoy it.... the prob is no one wants to push and communicate

Agreed. I've been in some really good matches (excluding Domination) on this map, when the people are on comms and working together. Alternatively, I've been in just as many 'waiting' matches. That being said, most maps are dependent on good TEAM play.

[Kiiyor]

I enjoy it, but only if the PUG gods smile on me and give me the right team.

With the right team, there's a plethora of tactical options available, if you coordinate.

With your average PUG though, there's only 3:

1. Mill around and bump into each other for a bit, then gradually move to the buildings furthest from the old tunnel.

2. Snipe at each other ineffectually, and hope that the enemy is less patient than you, so THEY are the ones who split and try to cross the open ground in ones and twos.

3. EXTREME long range nascar... before one team stops in the buildings furthest from the old tunnel.

And that's it. Sometimes, the team's indecision will lead to some inadvertently different fight locations, like a fight near the old tunnel location. Sometimes you'll get domination, which can make for some mighty tense matches while the brave ones on your team take turns venturing into the murderbowl, but generally, it's a ****fight, because of this one thing;

Frozen city seems designed to take PUGs out of their comfort zone.

The removal of cover in the middle means that you have to be brave to take the fight to the enemy, no matter which side you're on. At least on open maps like polar (which I despise) you start without real cover, and that makes it easier to deal with the lack of cover on the rest of the map.

On Frozen, there are all those nice, safe buildings around... that only afford you a position to stare forlornly at the 3 pixel wide silhouettes of the enemy, who are tucked behind their own buildings in the distance.

Frozen is a map designed for wolves to hunt in - which is why herd animals like your average PUG group feel so uncomfortable there.

[Vincent DIFrancesco]

That "chasm" used to be the border for the map when it first came out. Back then, the map was pretty cool [no pun intended]. Used to enjoy the brawls around the dropship, and the chases through the tunnel. Now...

It's not the worst map in MWO. But man, I'd love to see it go back to the size and structure of the original.

[Commander James Raynor]

JP Josh, on 26 September 2017 - 02:50 PM, said:

well i sorta enjoy it.... the prob is no one wants to push and communicate

The problem is that pushing is usually a bad idea. Of course it will go well sometimes, but even a broken watch gives the right time twice a day. Most of the time, you have to cross with your fingers crossed or wait for the other team to corss and snipe them all the way. It is a frustrating and poorly designed map.

My problem isn't even with geting stomped, because I lose the same number of times as I win. The problem is that even the wins usually start with waiting for eachother behind buildings.

[MischiefSC]

It just needs mover cover on the approach. It's a good map otherwise and good players/teams know you cross early. In FW it's excellent because the teams are split north/south, not east/west. So you don't have to cross the canyon at all. That's how it needs to be in QP.

[El Bandito]

All I can say is: My Hellbringers love Frozen City.

[Mcgral18]

RIP FC & FC

Both the Frozen and Forest remakes gave us vastly inferior goods, which reduced the enjoyment of the game considerably.
It seems good maps are a dying breed

[El Bandito]

Mcgral18, on 26 September 2017 - 05:19 PM, said:

RIP FC & FC

Both the Frozen and Forest remakes gave us vastly inferior goods, which reduced the enjoyment of the game considerably.
It seems good maps are a dying breed

I am just wondering why is PGI not axing Alpine Peaks already? That map is pretty bad designed in general, and was supposed to be replaced by Polar, or something.

[Snazzy Dragon]

It's definitely not the worst. Honestly, I'd reserve the worst for the new Forest Colony. Most of the map is entirely useless, wasted space the trees and other objects look terrible compared to some of the other maps. View is too easily obstructed, which wouldn't bother me if information warfare were an actual mechanic and and the trees weren't just a pixelated mess, and the fog effect is awful considering how weak heat vision is past 350m or so on heat neutral and cold maps (no black mechs in the distance, like on caustic or tourmaline)

Many players have performance drops on it too, myself included

[Y E O N N E]

I will admit, Frozen City is the one map I will never vote for.

It gets played too often.
People don't actually know how to play it.
It is usually snow-blind.
F*ck snakes.

[Trissila]

Commander James Raynor, on 26 September 2017 - 02:36 PM, said:

Add to that the fact that it promotes long range builds like gauss/PPC or ER large lasers, which I hate with a passion. This last thing is not an objectively bad thing, it´s just something I dislike, but the stagnant games thing, that's a fact. Why are they (developers) or we (the players) not doing anything about it?

But we are doing something about it.

We're using the 3-4/8 columns and D row to flank around to the other side of the chasm, using the terrain and buildings for cover until we come out right next to all those long-range boats and smash them.

You should try learning the maps sometime instead of just running out in the middle every time.

[ocular tb]

I liked the old one more. I liked all the old maps more actually. Please, no more removing maps- even Alpine. I'm willing to play on maps others like but I don't in exchange for them having to play on maps I like but they don't. It's a compromise and is more fair than remaking or removing maps because fans of the original will never get to play it again while those that disliked it get something they like more.

No more map removal. We need more maps, not less.

Edit: Leave the new versions in by all means since some people like them. But can we also get the old ones back too?

Edited by ocular tb, 26 September 2017 - 06:36 PM.

[PurplePuke]

Great map. Lots of movement, lots of brawls, lots of ways to engage the enemy.

It might be the best map in the game.

[Lykaon]

Frozen city is in my opinion far from the worst map design to me that award goes to HPG manifold.

With Frozen city there are two primary channels of approach to cross the mid point basin.

D4 and D5 leave a limited point of exposure and can be cross fairly quickly. and there is G5 and G6 with a similar narrow point of exposure.

If you opt to swing wide there is the H row path,but I only recommend this to relatively quick mechs since it is a wide path.

And honestly the E line push using the bridge to cover your advance is also viable.

The main issue with Frozen city is the players failing to follow the three Cs.

Communicate
Co-operate
Commit

[MischiefSC]

Yeonne Greene, on 26 September 2017 - 06:13 PM, said:

I will admit, Frozen City is the one map I will never vote for.

It gets played too often.
People don't actually know how to play it.
It is usually snow-blind.
F*ck snakes.

This is one of the better reasoned and supported arguments I've seen lately.

You should go to the FW forum, where the current argument is that all the units left FW originally because... They were getting stomped by 12mans.

"I hate Frozen City because F*ck snakes" has significantly better supporting logic -

Because, no really, f*ck snakes.

[Mystere]

Player does not like XXX. Player declares XXX the worst thing ever and must, therefore, be fully and with extreme prejudice eradicated from the face of the earth as if it never existed.

Move along. Nothing new here.

Edited by Mystere, 26 September 2017 - 08:29 PM.