105 replies to this topic

[MovinTarget]

Lol I think I got drowned out by the hardware guys (sucks to be a software guy on a hardware thread, lol)

Simple yes/no please:

Can I build a comparable Ryzen machine to modrate-high performance (not ultra) without braking the bank or spending hours tweaking settings?

I am not a hardware enthusiast on the levels that many of you appear to be so I am looking to see simply if I have more options than just build intel...

[NocturnalBeast]

MovinTarget, on 02 October 2017 - 06:35 AM, said:

Lol I think I got drowned out by the hardware guys (sucks to be a software guy on a hardware thread, lol)

Simple yes/no please:

Can I build a comparable Ryzen machine to modrate-high performance (not ultra) without braking the bank or spending hours tweaking settings?

I am not a hardware enthusiast on the levels that many of you appear to be so I am looking to see simply if I have more options than just build intel...

In my opinion, no.

[NocturnalBeast]

Bill Lumbar, on 02 October 2017 - 12:55 AM, said:

, The 1080 Ti is a monster, lol. I just hate dropping 700+ on a GPU.... it hurts man!

This just happened to be one of the rare times when I could afford one, so I wanted the best.

[NocturnalBeast]

NARC BAIT, on 02 October 2017 - 05:23 AM, said:

are ye not people ? .... generally I mean people rewarding companies for behaving badly ... like NVidia having the gall to announce that we don't get their best stuff, because vega did badly once it got into the real world .... for people to continue to buy the flagship product .... well, we know the bad places that complacency leave us .... during the years I had my FX, I looked at intel builds a few times, did them for other people, but other than the improvements from DDR4, I never really saw enough of an improvement to upgrade, until the M2 slots became more of ta thing ... from that point there was enough of a technological 'step' .... if the volume of sales for 1080/ti went setiously down over the next six months, they'd decide to release the next generation, even further nuking the vega ... but if they see no reason to innovate and improve, that's bad for all of us, long term ... lets not slow down technological progression, for profiteering ...

a 1080 is a beast ... and the majority of them are underutilized by people who don't care ... seems wasteful to me, especially to play this game, at any resolution below 4K, or using it for VR ... those are the limits it was designed for .... kinda like owning a Lamborghini but spending 90% of the time you drive on roads with really crappy speed limits ...

I will get a 4k gaming monitor some time within the next year or so, I will already have the hardware to drive it. Also, I am not "rewarding" a "bad company", I am buying from a company that consistently produces products that exceed my expectations.

[gaIaxor]

AMD is using its best 5% CPUs for the TR series. That is why TR CPUs have a higher turbo/XFR of 4.2 ghz. Higher clocked Ryzen CPUs in 12nm are expected in February 2018.

Vega 56 is ~5% faster than the GTX 1070 that is why Nvidia is trying to counter with the 1070 Ti.
Also it depends on which games/engines you play (DX12 and Vulkan usually run faster on AMD cards. For example in Forza 7 Vega64 runs 23% faster than 1080Ti.) and how long you want to keep your card. AMD cards have aged better in the past.

I think a Vega made by TSMC would clock much higher(~2ghz like Pascal) and be more competitive. I hope with Navi AMD will use the same TSMC process Nvidia is using instead of Global Foundries (or may be GF is able to catch up) so AMD does not depend on developers switching to DX12 and Vulkan to beat Nvidia. In the past Radeon and GeForce cards used the same TSMC process.

Edited by gaIaxor, 02 October 2017 - 02:06 PM.

[NocturnalBeast]

Just an FYI, be sure to get a "Free Sync" monitor if you have an ATI GPU and get a "G Sync" monitor if you have an NVIDIA GPU. In this regard, AMD / ATI win in the price / performance category, because it is tough to find a good "G Sync" monitor for less than $400.

[Bill Lumbar]

MovinTarget, on 02 October 2017 - 06:35 AM, said:

Lol I think I got drowned out by the hardware guys (sucks to be a software guy on a hardware thread, lol)

Simple yes/no please:

Can I build a comparable Ryzen machine to modrate-high performance (not ultra) without braking the bank or spending hours tweaking settings?

I am not a hardware enthusiast on the levels that many of you appear to be so I am looking to see simply if I have more options than just build intel...

Coming from first hand experience, the answer is yes.... of course you can and you should. I think Narc went with Ram that had dies on them that are not as stable for Ryzen as mine are. Mine have Samsung B dies, and I hit my 3200 mhz with no issues, no tweaking at all. It came at a price, but not that bad. The only thing that took time with my build was the new wall mount case I built by hand and the new hard lines I put in on the custom loop, everything else was very simple. I had never worked with hard lines before, always went soft...so it wasn't as simple this time around. My Ryzen build has been very pain free, and I am loving it. If I would of run into problems, I am a hardware guy, and a software guy, I would of dealt with it. lol.

Bottom line, I waited about 6 to 8 weeks for the dust to settle, researched the motherboards, and ram that makes the Ryzen the fastest and most stable. I really waited that long also, because the AsRock Taichi was sold out everywhere for several weeks. My next pick was a MSI Platinum which is/was the most expensive X370 at the time, maybe still is? Lucky I paid attention to the reviews, and info pouring in on the sites on it. A big reason I got the Msi seahawk 1070 EK blocked version is because I was gonna pair it up with the Platinum board. I started seeing a lack of support for the board vs the AsRock Professional and the Taichi, so I waited. The Professional board came in stock first, so I just jumped on it. Either way, I am sure I would of been happy with the Taichi too.

Bottom line, computer building is not rocket science, talk to people who really have a passion for building them, and get advice, but do your research! I am sure new platforms for Intel have had the same or worse teething issues just like the Ryzen has on some hardware. I think Narc just likes to tweak $hit man, and that is cool too. This is my old I74790K and granite wall mount case I built.... to be honest, I think it required more tweaking to get it running stable at 4.8 ghz 24/7 than my new Ryzen build did.




The new case was a good reason to build a new computer, the granite got to heavy to lift up on my wall when I had to clean, or upgrade. Plus I learned a lot from the last case I built, and wanted a slot loading drive, and milled out usb and sound ports into the frame this time around. Aluminum is so much lighter! lol

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 02 October 2017 - 03:04 PM.

[Bill Lumbar]

Ed Steele, on 02 October 2017 - 02:27 PM, said:

Just an FYI, be sure to get a "Free Sync" monitor if you have an ATI GPU and get a "G Sync" monitor if you have an NVIDIA GPU. In this regard, AMD / ATI win in the price / performance category, because it is tough to find a good "G Sync" monitor for less than $400.

This was a tough call for me.... I just picked up a 32" BenQ 1440P monitor a little over a year ago. Got it on sale for around $640 i think? I am not really one to jump on a monitor with low res. and I love the BenQ. Only draw back for gaming with a game like MWO, if it is one at all, is the 60-75 refresh rate. I really wanted Amd to shine here and for Vega to be really good.... because a new G-sync monitor is gonna cost me a crap ton of cash if I wanna keep my specs or better with one. I knew this going into it, and at some point soon, I am gonna get a new monitor that has the features I want, and pushing 100+ refresh rate. The joys of keeping up with PC gaming..... and all the tech that comes out. I am normally about 1-2 years behind, because as we all know, you buy new tech when it launches, you are spending a crap load of cash, and in 6 months, the new next best thing is out, and your hardware just lost 50% of its value.

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 02 October 2017 - 03:32 PM.

[NocturnalBeast]

Bill Lumbar, on 02 October 2017 - 03:32 PM, said:

This was a tough call for me.... I just picked up a 32" BenQ 1440P monitor a little over a year ago. Got it on sale for around $640 i think? I am not really one to jump on a monitor with low res. and I love the BenQ. Only draw back for gaming with a game like MWO, if it is one at all, is the 60-75 refresh rate. I really wanted Amd to shine here and for Vega to be really good.... because a new G-sync monitor is gonna cost me a crap ton of cash if I wanna keep my specs or better with one. I knew this going into it, and at some point soon, I am gonna get a new monitor that has the features I want, and pushing 100+ refresh rate. The joys of keeping up with PC gaming..... and all the tech that comes out. I am normally about 1-2 years behind, because as we all know, you buy new tech when it launches, you are spending a crap load of cash, and in 6 months, the new next best thing is out, and your hardware just lost 50% of its value.

If you are OK with 2k native rather than 4k, then the Dell 24 S2417DG is probably the best deal out there for a G Sync monitor (<$500).

And yeah, now that I have grown-up responsibilities, I can not afford to upgrade my PC whenever something new comes out anymore.

Edited by Ed Steele, 02 October 2017 - 03:52 PM.

[Bill Lumbar]

Ed Steele, on 02 October 2017 - 03:50 PM, said:

If you are OK with 2k native rather than 4k, then the Dell 24 S2417DG is probably the best deal out there for a G Sync monitor (<$500).

And yeah, now that I have grown-up responsibilities, I can not afford to upgrade my PC whenever something new comes out anymore.

Lol, Who can afford to? Even if I could, I wouldn't..... It's like a crack habit. Ever been to a Micro Center store? I can get lost in one for hours, and walk out with $4000 less in my wallet.... not a good thing.

I am fine with 2K, and most of the gaming world seems to still be stuck on 1080P like its the best, and the be all end all in bench testing and gaming.... (Ryzen vs. I7's and I9's) lol.

I am not a big Dell fan, but I will check it out.....I don't think I could go with less than a 27" let alone a 24". The BenQ has spoiled me! Smallest monitor I have had in the last 6 years has been a 30", 1920X1200 Res.

Wired and I, and several others have gotten into the conversation about my FX 8350 build I had running at 5ghz 24/7 stable, and I am a custom PC builder.... I build systems from both sides, Intel and Amd. I see how both perform, and what both cost to build. Not an expert by any means, but I know what works and what doesn't work.

Some have so much bias for one or the other.... some go by facts from first hand experience. What I have found is AMD in the past have been just good enough depending on ones system, and the OC they can reach with it. All comes down to money, and what you are willing and able to do to get the most out of your system. Custom water cooling helps... I never had a problem with my FX8350 system at 5+ghz, but some tried to tell me I did. When I upgraded to the I74790K, sure, I did notice an improvement in MWO....but as for other games I play, not really. The FX 8350 did just fine, very acceptable. With this Ryzen build, I am seeing better performance than my I74790K build at 4.8-4.9ghz.... Very happy with it.

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 02 October 2017 - 05:10 PM.

[NocturnalBeast]

The monitor I suggested was voted best in the price range for 2017 by Tom's Hardware and it is one I am considering, so that is why I suggested it. Also, I have limited space and have to store my PC out of the way when I am not using it, so I generally don't get monitors larger than 24".

Edited by Ed Steele, 02 October 2017 - 05:17 PM.

[Bill Lumbar]

Its cool.... I understand, Its just after this BenQ 32", it would be really hard for me to step down in size, unless I go with 3 monitors. Its a TN panel too... I can't go with one of those after going with IPS. Looks like my next upgrade is gonna be 800+

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 02 October 2017 - 05:20 PM.

[NocturnalBeast]

Bill Lumbar, on 02 October 2017 - 05:18 PM, said:

Its cool.... I understand, Its just after this BenQ 32&quot;, it would be really hard for me to step down in size, unless I go with 3 monitors. Its a TN panel too... I can't go with one of those after going with IPS. Looks like my next upgrade is gonna be 800+

Yeah, I would love to get the latest ASUS 4k Gsync monster, but those run close to $1000.

[NARC BAIT]

MovinTarget, on 02 October 2017 - 06:35 AM, said:

Simple yes/no please:

well, its possible, but as it turns out, not everyone can do it ... and some of us earned more frustration than others along the journey .... if you buy the right stuff (DDR4), your generally not going to have much worries ... you buy weird DDR4 other than what they recommend, and you get some extra fun to make it work top @ the top level ... but then again, after enough (alot) of tweaking, I run my kit faster than most can get theirs ... according to some benchmark places, I run the RAM faster than people who put the same kit on most intel builds, ie the top rated speed wasn't attainable by the majority ... anyway ...

getting a monitor that suits the video card will probably help avoid stutters etc, essentially they reverse the order of synchronicity between the video card and the screen, so instead of the video card just outputting frames willy nilly as fast as possible, the GPU outputs them at the right time to be shown at the screen .... its nice, but comes at a premium ... I've dropped my 4K screen down to a custom 3K resolution where it can show upto 120hz ... generally some software I have will tell me that I have gsync enabled, but I don't have it on this panel and it gets real weird above 60hz @ 4K ... ....

I've had very good experiences with the mid to higher tier of dell monitors ... good build quality, long lasting, designed for a bit more abuse than the average screen ....

[Bill Lumbar]

Idk Narc, I have had Dell monitors, and other brands....some are pretty nice, but even some of their top end/ most expensive have had serious issues. Before I drop any cash on another monitor, I will be doing tons of research.

[NocturnalBeast]

Bill Lumbar, on 03 October 2017 - 04:30 PM, said:

Idk Narc, I have had Dell monitors, and other brands....some are pretty nice, but even some of their top end/ most expensive have had serious issues. Before I drop any cash on another monitor, I will be doing tons of research.

I am still shopping for my new monitor, but I am seriously considering the Acer Predator line.

[NocturnalBeast]

And Acer wins! Formerly the second best Mobo manufacturers, but damned good monitors!

[NARC BAIT]

so apparently I figured out why my monitor gets whacky above 60hz, its got the other other sync technology, adaptive sync, that's in the specifications, but generally unused by everyone .... so I'm pretty much stuck to the proper refresh rates with it, and I'm not planning to upgrade it for a while ... so 60fps limit it is ...

[NocturnalBeast]

NARC BAIT, on 04 October 2017 - 05:23 AM, said:

so apparently I figured out why my monitor gets whacky above 60hz, its got the other other sync technology, adaptive sync, that's in the specifications, but generally unused by everyone .... so I'm pretty much stuck to the proper refresh rates with it, and I'm not planning to upgrade it for a while ... so 60fps limit it is ...

You are probably getting tearing, to fix that you will need to enable VSync and triple buffering if you have the option. Also, G-sync and I believe Free-Sync only work with a display port cable, you will be stuck with 60hz through HDMI.

[Bill Lumbar]

Ed Steele, on 04 October 2017 - 07:39 AM, said:

You are probably getting tearing, to fix that you will need to enable VSync and triple buffering if you have the option. Also, G-sync and I believe Free-Sync only work with a display port cable, you will be stuck with 60hz through HDMI.

You are correct Ed, must have a display port cable to take advantage of either of them.