213 replies to this topic

[Bombast]

MischiefSC, on 01 October 2017 - 06:48 AM, said:

Maybe all that is wrong though. You guys want to actuallybtest how good LRMs are vs direct fire?

Hey, I can help with that.

Not that I think the LRMs will win or anything, I just like testing. I'd work at Aperture Science if it was a real place.

[VXJaeger]

PPL who use LRM are weak, their genes are weak, their bloodline is weak and only by goodwillingness of their neighbours they stay alive over winter.

[Bombast]

VXJaeger, on 01 October 2017 - 11:02 AM, said:

PPL who use LRM are weak, their genes are weak, their bloodline is weak and only by goodwillingness of their neighbours they stay alive over winter.

That sounds suspiciously like Clanner talk...

[VXJaeger]

Bombast, on 01 October 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

That sounds suspiciously like Clanner talk...

...and they probably make pizzas using only pineapples as topping.

[MischiefSC]

I heard that people who play LRMs love to talk **** about how good they are if you "use them right".....

Right up until you ask them to prove it. Then they go quiet.

Crazy.

[Shard Phoenix]

VXJaeger, on 01 October 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

...and they probably make pizzas using only pineapples as topping.

Thanks, now I will forever envision LRM Assault pilots as helpless neckbeards who have freezers full of crappy microwave "hawaiian" pizzas as their only sustenance.

[InvictusLee]

MischiefSC, on 01 October 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

I heard that people who play LRMs love to talk **** about how good they are if you "use them right".....

Right up until you ask them to prove it. Then they go.....

Sure. 1v1 me noob.

[Bombast]

November11th, on 01 October 2017 - 01:29 PM, said:

Sure. 1v1 me noob.

Why would you try that to prove LRM superiority? It's the LRM's weakest scenario.

Edited by Bombast, 01 October 2017 - 01:31 PM.

[InvictusLee]

Bombast, on 01 October 2017 - 01:31 PM, said:

Why would you try that to prove LRM superiority? It's the LRM's weakest scenario.

It has nothing to do with superiority.
I just have to prove the system can be viable and effective at range.
Dont talk **** about a weapons system unless your willing to get your face blown off by said weapons system.

I can also counter ECM. So...

Most arguments about how LRMs suck are moot.

[Bombast]

November11th, on 01 October 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

I just have to prove the system can be viable and effective at range.

Something you will almost certainly be unable to do in a duel, ESPECIALLY if your opponent knows in advance you're carrying LRMs.

Edited by Bombast, 01 October 2017 - 02:05 PM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

MischiefSC, on 01 October 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

I heard that people who play LRMs love to talk **** about how good they are if you "use them right".....

Right up until you ask them to prove it. Then they go quiet.

November11th, on 01 October 2017 - 01:29 PM, said:

Sure. 1v1 me noob.

[InvictusLee]

Bombast, on 01 October 2017 - 01:36 PM, said:

Something you will almost certainly be unable to do in a duel, ESPECIALLY if your opponent knows in advance you're carrying LRMs.

WTF IF.... we just were on opposing teams? xD

[Bombast]

November11th, on 01 October 2017 - 02:12 PM, said:

WTF IF.... we just were on opposing teams? xD

He asked for people, including you, to do just that. Everyone got mysteriously quiet.

[MischiefSC]

November11th, on 01 October 2017 - 01:29 PM, said:

Sure. 1v1 me noob.

Absolutely, I'll friend you when I'm off work. I'm off the next 3 days. You can pick the tonnage, I'll go the same or up to 10 tons less. That sound fair? You can even pick the map.

[Brain Cancer]

Kroete, on 29 September 2017 - 02:58 AM, said:

The supernove can take atms+lrms, i have a lot better results using 2x10alrm, 2x12 atm, 4 lasers (hml), ams (1ton ammo), bap, a little over 700 atms and lrms and some heatsinks with the biggest engine.

Not that bad against ams (normaly the problem by taking atms), with a little timining you can ams let eat your lrms and you can score with atms.
But its hot ...

I'll also go with the Supernova-A, using the mixed ATM/LRM build (I'm dual ALRM 15's, ATM 9+12 instead + HMLs).

It adds the stopping power pure LRM boats lack.

Heavies? The Orion IIC is an inexpensive bomber, and even lighter heavies like the Mad Dog and Ebon Jaguar (low profile, can easily flick missiles over stuff though) can pack enough launchers to hurt, but also have the tonnage to devote to proper secondary guns.

Never go full lurmtard.

[Lykaon]

MischiefSC, on 01 October 2017 - 06:48 AM, said:

Okay. So I've tried to set up another LRMs in any capacity vs direct fire challenge and couldn't get more the. 2 or 3 people willing to play on the LRM teams when the chips are down. You guys want to volunteer? One team is only direct fire, the other team has at least 2 mechs carrying some.capacity for LRMs. We try to match skill levels on both teams and LRM team gets to pick the map.

Because without exception every single time LRMs have been tested vs direct fire LRMs lost badly. All the math on why LRMs are flat out inferior to direct fire has been worked out, tested and established and its why none of the top tier players in the game really play LRMs.

Maybe all that is wrong though. You guys want to actuallybtest how good LRMs are vs direct fire?

I will never dispute that LRMs are not direct fire weapons. I will not counter an argument that direct fire weapons are nearly always superior choices to LRMs.

What nearly everyone seems to miss is the unique properties LRMs have and how to leverage those to an advantage.

ONE:
No direct fire weapons can fire over a front line mech. By leveraging this capability you can maximize potential firepower while minimizing use of frontage.

Example: A Kingcrab is forward possition and is armed primaraly with autocannons. The mech immediatley behind is effectivley blocked from firing unless it can fire over the front mech. In this situation you will get more damage output from a second line LRM carrier than a second line direct fire mech that can not shoot.

TWO:
The area of potential influence of an LRM carrier is not limited to flat open sight lines. Direct fire mechs can not hit what they can not themselves see. An LRM carrier possitioned mid formation has an effective bubble of influence of about 600-700m and 900m + of suppression range. This bubble is not limited by sight lines only target locks.

Example: a Friendly brawler on the far right of your formation engages a target.This enemy target is not in LOS of many or any other friendlies to the brawler engaging it or the brawler by neccessity of clearing a fire lane to target blocks other friendlies from firing. In this instance only an LRM carrier can reliably assist and act as a force multiplyer. Direct fire mechs will be limited by sight lines and limited fire lanes.

THREE:

LRMs have a unique capacity for supression fire even when the target can't actually be hit. If a direct fire weapon is fired outside it's damage capacity range or at targets that can be locked but not seen the direct fire weapons will do absulutley nothing. LRMs however have a missile launch warning! A mech target by an LRM volley even one that can not possibly hit them will get this warning and this can (and frequently does) influence what the targeted mech does.

Example: an enemy sniper mech is out on your formations flank but at a distance that makes engaging it unrealistic or unsafe for your team. Someone can see it but no one can effectivley hit them. Even if this mech is tight in cover or even outside LRM range they will get missile launch warnings when fired on. This can force them to repossition to avoid the assumed threat.
Any time they spend repossitioning is time not spent shooting at your team.

So the trick to being good at LRM use is seeking out these types of situations and making them work for your team. Even if you are piling damage onto a mech that is heavily engaged by your team mates do NOT miss an opertunity to do what only the LRM support mech can.

If you see the one v one fight and you can lend firepower to it SWITCH TARGETS!

If you can suppress a sniper in the distance DO IT!

If the team's sluggers are pushing BE RIGHT BEHIND THEM! (well not under foot but second line and shooting from where no one else could)


Bottom line is LRMs are full of weaknesses so you can either shore up the weakness by loading on BAP/TAG/ECM/TCs/Artemis or boating tons of launchers on an assault chassis

or

Play to the strengths and uniqueness that only LRMs (and occationally ATMs) have.

Edited by Lykaon, 01 October 2017 - 02:56 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

Rick T Dangerous, on 29 September 2017 - 04:29 PM, said:

Not - I repeat: NOT - a Commando.

Bombast, on 29 September 2017 - 04:39 PM, said:

I guess I get to keep the secrets of the LRM15 Commando to myself. Mwahahaha!

There is very little more humilating than watching a 25-ton 'Mech lurm-5 someone to death.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...592dbda7c53c8a4

Edited by Brain Cancer, 01 October 2017 - 03:04 PM.

[Lykaon]

MischiefSC, on 01 October 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

I heard that people who play LRMs love to talk **** about how good they are if you "use them right".....

Right up until you ask them to prove it. Then they go quiet.

Crazy.

Best way to prove it would be on a team with a skillful LRM user not sitting opposite them as an enemy.

As a support weapon it's far easier to see what they do for the team when on the team using it.

It's difficult to to quantify certain things.

[Rakshasa]

I always like the Night Gyr D as an LRM carrier. Base config of Artemis LRM-80 with pulse laser backup on a well-armoured and fairly nimble heavy.

[MischiefSC]

LRMs are a terrible suppression weapon against anything but bads.

Your 50 pts of slow moving and scattered LRMs may get them to lean back I to cover after an alpha or 2. My 84 pts of direct fire will blow their ST off, sending them scampering to cover with half their mech gone. That's better suppression.

Shooting over the mechs in front of you means you're positioning wrong.

There is nothing useful that LRMs do other than shoot from hiding - which is a bad thing to do because it means the enemy can focus on fewer targets. Everything else they do is done better by direct fire.

If that was not the case you would see consistent effective use of LRMs at the top tiers of gameplay. You don't, not because all the top players in the game are also coincidentally bad at it but because bad weapons are not as good as good weapons.

Use what you want in QP. I'm having fun with a non meta MRM build latwly. It's QP, do wut you want.

However honesty is important. LRMs are bad compared to direct fire. You want to disprove that you need to actually prove it. Nobody has done so in a test before.