209 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

I assume since splash damage doesn't count then no one would mind if they moved the heavy ppc up to 15 damage plus 5 splash?

the difference is that 15+5 splash damage would be a straight buff for HPPC

while making the CERPPC 10+5 splash damage was a straight nerf

splash damage is great when its a bonus, but its terrible when its a penalty...

Quote

No. They would be pretty busted if they were 15 damage.

not really.

the only reason CERPPC wasnt allowed to be 15 damage originally was because of its affinity with gauss which is no longer an issue since they cant be fired together.

laser vomit would still be far better than two CERPPCs doing 30 damage.

I dont think you truly appreciate how ridiculous laser vomit is. but it does far more than 30 damage.

laser vomit is like 60-80 damage. laser vomit and laser/gauss is whats busted.


but I would be happy if CERPPC stayed at 10+5 and just had its splash damage fixed and was bumped upto ghost heat limit of 3 along with all the non-heavy IS PPCs.

Edited by Khobai, 26 January 2018 - 12:59 AM.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Dago Red, on 25 January 2018 - 08:24 PM, said:

I assume since splash damage doesn't count then no one would mind if they moved the heavy ppc up to 15 damage plus 5 splash?

If you insist on counting in splash as valid damage, I assume you wouldn't mind if HPPC's is redone to do 10+2.5+2.5 ?

[Black Ivan]

IMO all PPCs need a buff to become better and challange the Laser vomit

[Dago Red]

Nema Nabojiv, on 26 January 2018 - 02:20 AM, said:

If you insist on counting in splash as valid damage, I assume you wouldn't mind if HPPC's is redone to do 10+2.5+2.5 ?

Remove the minimum range and it's a deal.

[Mcgral18]

Dago Red, on 26 January 2018 - 04:50 AM, said:

Remove the minimum range and it's a deal.

And remove 4 tons

[Curccu]

Mcgral18, on 25 January 2018 - 05:30 PM, said:

Nah, it's just typical operating procedure of Clam Apologists Potatoes.

FTFY

[Snowbluff]

Kubernetes, on 26 January 2018 - 12:00 AM, said:

I wouldn't say it's ideal, but the fact that it's PPFLD makes it more effective than lasers in a knife-fight. At end-game when everything's either busted up or a light mech, a pair of ERPPCs can be the scariest thing out there.

Regarding objections to heat, I don't think it matters because people usually don't pair cERPPCs with other high heat weapons, if at all. My Summoner is still really strong, despite having lost a lot of quirks.

Yeah, PPCs of all kinds are satisfying in the endgame. Snapping someone and watching them collapse is always a pleasant surprise because of how pleasant it is.

It doesn't matter because clans have really good heat sinks.

Khobai, on 26 January 2018 - 12:45 AM, said:

the difference is that 15+5 splash damage would be a straight buff for HPPC

while making the CERPPC 10+5 splash damage was a straight nerf

splash damage is great when its a bonus, but its terrible when its a penalty...



not really.

the only reason CERPPC wasnt allowed to be 15 damage originally was because of its affinity with gauss which is no longer an issue since they cant be fired together.

laser vomit would still be far better than two CERPPCs doing 30 damage.

I dont think you truly appreciate how ridiculous laser vomit is. but it does far more than 30 damage.

laser vomit is like 60-80 damage. laser vomit and laser/gauss is whats busted.


but I would be happy if CERPPC stayed at 10+5 and just had its splash damage fixed and was bumped upto ghost heat limit of 3 along with all the non-heavy IS PPCs.

Hm... you make a fairly good point about the the alpha limit, but I still think 6 tons for 15 damage is too much. The ghost heat for PPCs should be looked at, as should the JJ nerfs, given that the poptart style they were meant for isn't in existence any more.

I'm still hoping laser vom gets nerfed. I just think it's a boring style.

[ROSS-128]

The Clan ERPPC was one of the biggest balance mistakes in TT, it simply outclassed every other PPC by a mile.

The damage of a Heavy, the weight of a snub, the range brackets of an ER, and the crit space of a Light. The only way it could have gotten more ridiculous is if they made it 10 heat.

But I guess Clan players are just so used to their stuff being OP, they don't even realize how ridiculous that list of traits is. And feel like they're somehow being screwed if their PPC doesn't completely outclass every other option in the game in every way.

[Spare Parts Bin]

The IS HPPC when teamed with a LPPC is this a good option?

[Curccu]

Spare Parts Bin, on 26 January 2018 - 06:09 AM, said:

The IS HPPC when teamed with a LPPC is this a good option?

Team HPPC with HPPC and LPPC with LPPC

[Snowbluff]

Spare Parts Bin, on 26 January 2018 - 06:09 AM, said:

The IS HPPC when teamed with a LPPC is this a good option?

Well, it depends. Ideally you wouldn't mix and match, as the HPPC can do 30 damage without ghost heat by itself. But if you would want 2 PPCs, you can hypothetically substitute for 1 LPPC and 1 HPPC to have the same damage for 1 less ton.

[Water Bear]

Oh, I just remembered a build that still uses the HPPC un-ironically. I've got an Ilya Muromets that has an HPPC in the LT high mount, UAC 20 in the RT ballistic, and LPL in the right arm high mount. It can hill hump with the HPPC at distance, then expose its RT at close range for high DPS brawling. It's quite good, actually. ...Not like my -0XP.

[Snowbluff]

Water Bear, on 26 January 2018 - 07:08 AM, said:

Oh, I just remembered a build that still uses the HPPC un-ironically. I've got an Ilya Muromets that has an HPPC in the LT high mount, UAC 20 in the RT ballistic, and LPL in the right arm high mount. It can hill hump with the HPPC at distance, then expose its RT at close range for high DPS brawling. It's quite good, actually. ...Not like my -0XP.

There are Cataphracts with high E mounts in both shoulders. 2 HPPC is a pretty legit combination on them, I suppose. I wouldn't think to use singular LPL, though.

[Spare Parts Bin]

Water Bear, on 26 January 2018 - 07:08 AM, said:

Oh, I just remembered a build that still uses the HPPC un-ironically. I've got an Ilya Muromets that has an HPPC in the LT high mount, UAC 20 in the RT ballistic, and LPL in the right arm high mount. It can hill hump with the HPPC at distance, then expose its RT at close range for high DPS brawling. It's quite good, actually. ...Not like my -0XP.

Snowbluff, on 26 January 2018 - 07:21 AM, said:

There are Cataphracts with high E mounts in both shoulders. 2 HPPC is a pretty legit combination on them, I suppose. I wouldn't think to use singular LPL, though.

Sounds like an interesting build.

[Y E O N N E]

Nema Nabojiv, on 26 January 2018 - 02:20 AM, said:

If you insist on counting in splash as valid damage, I assume you wouldn't mind if HPPC's is redone to do 10+2.5+2.5 ?

The problem with that wouldn't be the splash, it would be that it it is nowhere near powerful enough to justify 10 tons into a single weapon. 10+2.5+2.5 at 6 tons is already straight-up better than 10 and only 10 for 7 tons, and at least per ton of weapon 10 without the splash over 6 tons is still more potent than 15 for 10 tons.

Simple ratios.

Spare Parts Bin, on 26 January 2018 - 06:09 AM, said:

The IS HPPC when teamed with a LPPC is this a good option?

You you think you want to mount just two PPCs, and it's not a dakka build going for DPS, then an HPPC and an LPPC is a valid option to save a ton. I do it on my BJ-3 to get some small lasers in there.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Snowbluff, on 25 January 2018 - 05:49 PM, said:

ERPPC -> 10 damage for too much heat. 7 tons.
CERPPC -> 10 damage for 14.5 heat. 6 tons. Has splash, but really that only applies in a small of cases; it rarely contributes to the kill meaningfully.
These are inferior class PPCs. That have a bad Damage:Heat ratio. Clans have good heat sinks which gets around this, and their only other PPFLD weapon is the gauss, so they use it anyway. The clan one is lighter by one ton, but if it was, say, 7 tons for like 12.5 heat it would be a better weapon.
Velocity and range are better; this makes them better for long range maps, but up close the extra head is hurting you.

So how about adding the EERPPC instead?

12 damage, 7 tons, 3 slots

Velocity just lower than the IS ERPPC, heat somewhere between the IS ERPPC & HPPC, cooldown somewhere between the IS ERPPC & Clan ERPPC

Nema Nabojiv, on 26 January 2018 - 02:20 AM, said:

If you insist on counting in splash as valid damage, I assume you wouldn't mind if HPPC's is redone to do 10+2.5+2.5 ?

If it gets reduced to 5 heat & 1s cooldown, sure!

[Y E O N N E]

Jay Leon Hart, on 26 January 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

So how about adding the EERPPC instead?

12 damage, 7 tons, 3 slots

Velocity just lower than the IS ERPPC, heat somewhere between the IS ERPPC & HPPC, cooldown somewhere between the IS ERPPC & Clan ERPPC

That would actually be a straight-upgrade to the current cERPPC. Drop two cDHS for 24 PPFLD? Ez.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Yeonne Greene, on 26 January 2018 - 10:48 AM, said:

That would actually be a straight-upgrade to the current cERPPC. Drop two cDHS for 24 PPFLD? Ez.

Yet every time I bring it up, I get told "nobody would want that" which is just... Clan logic, I guess?

[Snowbluff]

Jay Leon Hart, on 26 January 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

So how about adding the EERPPC instead?

12 damage, 7 tons, 3 slots

Velocity just lower than the IS ERPPC, heat somewhere between the IS ERPPC & HPPC, cooldown somewhere between the IS ERPPC & Clan ERPPC

As you can see, my objection is to the level of heat. The EERPPC does improve the damage:heat ratio, though. I still don't think it would be balanced in a clan mech, though.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Yeonne Greene, on 26 January 2018 - 08:19 AM, said:

The problem with that wouldn't be the splash, it would be that it it is nowhere near powerful enough to justify 10 tons into a single weapon. 10+2.5+2.5 at 6 tons is already straight-up better than 10 and only 10 for 7 tons, and at least per ton of weapon 10 without the splash over 6 tons is still more potent than 15 for 10 tons.

Simple ratios.

The point is simple - claiming cERPPC does 15 legit damage is just blatant hypocrisy. We can stop bullshіting each other for a minute and admit CERPPC is a weapon capped at 20 damage for 30 heat, and in current meta it cannot compete with any other weapon combo in anything save for poptarting. Maybe that is PGI's idea for how it should be used, but well, I dont like it.

That being said, I dont of course claim IS ERPPCs are any better.