209 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 26 January 2018 - 03:23 PM, said:

yeah I read between the lines. when someone says that the HPPC has a damage-to-weight problem, and knows fully thats its weight is unlikely to change, that heavily implies increasing its damage.

You need to read between the lines better, because there's more than one way to skin this cat. A straight buff to HPPC damage is not the only option.

This is what I mean when you have an issue with focusing solely on single weapons. You miss the big picture and alternatives entirely.

[Khobai]

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You need to read between the lines better, because there's more than one way to skin this cat. A straight buff to HPPC damage is not the only option.

if you want to improve its damage to weight ratio it is the only option. and thats what people were complaining about: that its damage to weight ratio is bad.

but IMO its not damage to weight but rather damage to heat ratio thats the problem. and the damage deadzone.

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This is what I mean when you have an issue with focusing solely on single weapons. You miss the big picture and alternatives entirely.

im not focusing on a single weapon?

Buffing ISDHS helps all ISPPCs. Like I keep saying over and over.

Im the only one here that seems to see the bigger picture.

everyone else is hungup on what I said about buffing CERPPCs. lmao.

youre the ones hung up on one weapon: the CERPPC. its all you focus on. you ignore all of the suggestions I made to buff IS PPCs because it included a suggestion to also buff CERPPC.

EVEN THOUGH KHOBAI WANTS TO BUFF ISPPCS TO BE EVERY BIT AS GOOD AS CERPPC, BECAUSE HE SUGGESTED BUFFING CERPPC, HES AN ENTITLED CLAN APOLOGIST.

thats what you people sound like. its ridiculous.

Edited by Khobai, 26 January 2018 - 03:39 PM.

[Kubernetes]

Fools, you keep calling for this and I guarantee they won’t buff PPCs... they’ll nerf lasers instead.

[FupDup]

Kubernetes, on 26 January 2018 - 03:32 PM, said:

Fools, you keep calling for this and I guarantee they won’t buff PPCs... they’ll nerf lasers instead.

Or they'll nerf PPCs instead, like they did with this most recent patch.

[Metus regem]

Kubernetes, on 26 January 2018 - 03:32 PM, said:

Fools, you keep calling for this and I guarantee they won’t buff PPCs... they’ll nerf lasers instead.

It's PGI, they'd nerf SRM/s saying that they are over performing...

Where they get their data is a very concerning question of mine, as their data is often at odds to what is seen on the live servers...

[Jay Leon Hart]

Khobai, on 26 January 2018 - 03:32 PM, said:

everyone else is hungup on what I said about buffing CERPPCs. lmao.

youre the ones hung up on one weapon: the CERPPC. its all you focus on. you ignore all of the suggestions I made to buff IS PPCs because it included a suggestion to also buff CERPPC.

If I disagree with what you say about CERPPCs, then I'll quote it.

If I agree with what you say about buffing IS DHS and have nothing to add, then I won't quote it.

Just because people aren't quoting you with a "+1" or "QFT", doesn't mean they don't agree with some of your suggestions.

Enough with the persecution complex.

[Khobai]

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Where they get their data is a very concerning question of mine, as their data is often at odds to what is seen on the live servers...

its right in the patch notes

they said they get it from competitive players

which is exactly why they should not be listening to competitive players

Quote

Enough with the persecution complex.

the persecution is real though

go try to post a reasonable suggestion to buff clan mechs

and you will get like 10 obnoxious replies from IS players about how clans are OP and should be nerfed even more

Edited by Khobai, 26 January 2018 - 03:43 PM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Khobai, on 26 January 2018 - 03:41 PM, said:

its right in the patch notes

they said they get it from competitive players

which is exactly why they should not be listening to competitive players

Quote

Heavy Gauss Rifle

• Optimal Range increased to 220 (from 180).

Heavy Gauss Rifle Design Notes: This change is the result of direct feedback from 2017 MWOWC finalists, and is intended simply to push out the effective range of the Heavy Gauss Rifle.

Pretty sure it was just the HGauss optimal range buff and nothing to do with the CERPPC cooldown nerf, unless you have a link to a dev comment somewhere?

Khobai, on 26 January 2018 - 03:41 PM, said:

the persecution is real though

go try to post a reasonable suggestion to buff clan mechs

and you will get like 10 obnoxious replies from IS players about how clans are OP and should be nerfed even more

I know, I get the same from Clan players if I suggest an IS buff.

People are *******.

[Dago Red]

Jay Leon Hart, on 26 January 2018 - 01:52 PM, said:

I, too, find it hard to hit things at range with PPCs (among other things), which is why I keep practicing.

My advice for that is to go back in time to 1998 and play a ton of Tribes on dial up.

That's how I learned. Hope this was helpful.

But seriously mechs are hilariously big and slow targets for the most part in this game compared to some. My legitimate advice is to play a arena shooter then come back here.

Edited by Dago Red, 26 January 2018 - 03:52 PM.

[Khobai]

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Pretty sure it was just the HGauss optimal range buff and nothing to do with the CERPPC cooldown nerf, unless you have a link to a dev comment somewhere?

if they listened to them on that they listened to them on other things too obviously

like nerfing clan skill nodes. that probably came from some comp player who said clan heat dissipation was too good.

[ROSS-128]

As far as the HPPC's D/T ratio goes, well it's better than the ISPPC. 1.5 for the HPPC, 1.43 for the PPC. It's D/H is also sliiiightly better, due to the random 0.5 heat missing from it, and its D/C is definitely better at 3.75 vs 3.33.

It also beats the IS ERPPC in every category except range. Honestly, the HPPC is the best PPC the IS has even if that's something like getting first in the special olympics.

Though the LPPC would be able to match it if its GH limit was 6 or something like that (ie so that they both did 30 damage at a time). Then the situation would be that the LPPC wins on tonnage, but the HPPC wins on crits+hardpoints, so it depends on what your bottleneck is.

Clearly though what the IS needs is... PPC Capacitors.

Anyway though, I'm just not sure:
TDR-5SS

Definitely pretty on the toasty side. Nice alpha for an IS mech I guess, but the medium lasers have extremely poor range synergy and I just don't know what to do about them. Ditch them for heat sinks? Replace them for a LL or a pair of LPPCs? Just consider them backup weapons? Replace them with ERMLs and run even hotter?

Also up in the air: if I ditch the AMS I can squeeze ooooone more DHS in there. But it seems like an AMS can earn its weight back so consistently if there is even one LRM/ATM/MRM user on the field. With all the new missile weapons its target profile sure has expanded, and it only needs to prevent 32 damage to be worth 1t of armor, a rather low bar to clear. On the other hand... missile weapons in general are still kind of underpowered so maybe I shouldn't care about them?

There's also options that aren't quite cemented with the engine: a sturdy STD250 would put me at -1 heat sink and +16 armor (due to a half-ton gap), but then this mech has no CT or head weapons so it's not like I care about dying after a double-ST loss. A fragile XL300 on the other hand could get me +1 heatsink and an extra ton that I don't really have enough crit space to spend. And I can't bump it to a 305 because that'd need 1.5 tons. Moar AMS ammo? I'm leaning toward its current Light 280 as the best compromise, honestly.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Khobai, on 26 January 2018 - 03:48 PM, said:

if they listened to them on that they listened to them on other things too obviously

like nerfing clan skill nodes. that probably came from some comp player who said clan heat dissipation was too good.

Yeah, no.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Dago Red, on 26 January 2018 - 03:47 PM, said:

My advice for that is to go back in time to 1998 and play a ton of Tribes on dial up.

THat's how I learned. Hope this was helpful.

But seriously mechs are hilariously big and slow targets for the most part in this game compared to some. My legitimate advice is to play a arena shooter then come back here.

I was fine with Quake 3 & the UT series (up until UT3), but the difference in movement profiles here is a huge factor.

When everyone moves in the same way, at the same speed, to the same jump height, with the same hitboxes, of the same size, with the same weapons... it's so much simpler to learn to use everything. Although I never did get the hang of shock combos

[Khobai]

leading targets that are moving a constant speed and direction is easy. ensuring the target stays moving at a constant speed and direction is what you have no control over. thats where weapon velocity is important.

having a higher weapon velocity can make the difference between hitting a medium mech that suddenly decides to change speed/direction and missing them completely. it reduces the amount of time they have to change their speed/direction before the PPC reaches them.

thats why you need to take a targeting computer with CERPPC. and it does add tonnage/crits. so youre losing any advantage of the CERPPC weighing less or taking up less crits.

By giving the CERPPC a much slower velocity and making it require a TC they actually balanced it pretty good with the ISERPPC. The only thing they didnt balance was the superior CDHS.

Edited by Khobai, 26 January 2018 - 04:05 PM.

[ROSS-128]

Anything bigger than 50t doesn't tend to have too much acceleration either to be honest. How much more acceleration will 0.05s get them?

A lot of people have pings higher than that.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Khobai, on 26 January 2018 - 03:58 PM, said:

thats why you need to take a targeting computer with CERPPC. and it does add tonnage/crits. so youre losing any advantage of the CERPPC weighing less or taking up less crits.

No thanks, I'll stick to loading up on DHS.

[Dago Red]

Jay Leon Hart, on 26 January 2018 - 03:53 PM, said:

I was fine with Quake 3 & the UT series (up until UT3), but the difference in movement profiles here is a huge factor.

When everyone moves in the same way, at the same speed, to the same jump height, with the same hitboxes, of the same size, with the same weapons... it's so much simpler to learn to use everything. Although I never did get the hang of shock combos

Thus the Tribes recommendation. Different weight classes with different kits moving differently and all non hitscan weapons with different travel speeds. That and everyone's going like 120 kph.

Actually have the shut down the servers on Tribes Ascend?


Anyway the point is PPC's don't need more velocity to hit with reliably on anything 45 tons or more.

Edited by Dago Red, 26 January 2018 - 04:06 PM.

[FupDup]

ROSS-128, on 26 January 2018 - 03:49 PM, said:

As far as the HPPC's D/T ratio goes, well it's better than the ISPPC. 1.5 for the HPPC, 1.43 for the PPC. It's D/H is also sliiiightly better, due to the random 0.5 heat missing from it, and its D/C is definitely better at 3.75 vs 3.33.

It also beats the IS ERPPC in every category except range. Honestly, the HPPC is the best PPC the IS has even if that's something like getting first in the special olympics.

Though the LPPC would be able to match it if its GH limit was 6 or something like that (ie so that they both did 30 damage at a time). Then the situation would be that the LPPC wins on tonnage, but the HPPC wins on crits+hardpoints, so it depends on what your bottleneck is.

Clearly though what the IS needs is... PPC Capacitors.

Anyway though, I'm just not sure:
TDR-5SS

Definitely pretty on the toasty side. Nice alpha for an IS mech I guess, but the medium lasers have extremely poor range synergy and I just don't know what to do about them. Ditch them for heat sinks? Replace them for a LL or a pair of LPPCs? Just consider them backup weapons? Replace them with ERMLs and run even hotter?

Also up in the air: if I ditch the AMS I can squeeze ooooone more DHS in there. But it seems like an AMS can earn its weight back so consistently if there is even one LRM/ATM/MRM user on the field. With all the new missile weapons its target profile sure has expanded, and it only needs to prevent 32 damage to be worth 1t of armor, a rather low bar to clear. On the other hand... missile weapons in general are still kind of underpowered so maybe I shouldn't care about them?

There's also options that aren't quite cemented with the engine: a sturdy STD250 would put me at -1 heat sink and +16 armor (due to a half-ton gap), but then this mech has no CT or head weapons so it's not like I care about dying after a double-ST loss. A fragile XL300 on the other hand could get me +1 heatsink and an extra ton that I don't really have enough crit space to spend. And I can't bump it to a 305 because that'd need 1.5 tons. Moar AMS ammo? I'm leaning toward its current Light 280 as the best compromise, honestly.

IMO I'd rather replace those ML's with SPLs for better efficiency in close quarters. The twin HPPCs are enough for your mid ranged punch. Probably wanna ditch AMS, depending on how often you get hit by missiles in the first place (should be trying to avoid that).

[ROSS-128]

I do pretty much never get killed by missiles, with the rare exception of an ATM48 just happening to be in juuuust the right spot to land a 144 damage volley. Which, to be honest, is basically luck and is probably something I shouldn't worry about.

Which is the reason I'm kind of iffy on the AMS. On the one hand it's pretty easy for it to be tonnage efficient... but on the other hand it's tonnage efficient against a weapon group that almost never kills me.

[Khobai]

Quote

I do pretty much never get killed by missiles, with the rare exception of an ATM48 just happening to be in juuuust the right spot to land a 144 damage volley. Which, to be honest, is basically luck and is probably something I shouldn't worry about.

Which is the reason I'm kind of iffy on the AMS. On the one hand it's pretty easy for it to be tonnage efficient... but on the other hand it's tonnage efficient against a weapon group that almost never kills me.

the thing about AMS is that it protects friendly mechs that are behind you better than it protects yourself

because missiles hitting friendly mechs behind you have to pass through the full circumference of the AMS

you mostly take AMS to protect your teammates. ECM is better to protect yourself.

Edited by Khobai, 26 January 2018 - 04:26 PM.