54 replies to this topic

[MechaBattler]

I can think of a few suggestions that would make balance closer without power creeping as much.

LFE should have no penalty. It won't make a huge difference anyway. But it's still better than nothing in the face of a 25% weight disparity with the CXL.

I think we could all appreciate if weapon and component health was increased across the board. But also the difference in health between Clan and IS. It would help with LMG spam and it falls in line with IS being tankier.

It has been suggested many times to give IS XL multiple crits to shore up the rather large survivability disparity when compared to the C-XL.

Perhaps its time they consider additional heat penalties since laser vomit seem to be the key meta again. People certainly aren't open to Energy Draw! Or other drastic changes.

Lets face it. They have been buffing and nerfing on both sides. But the disparity is still there. Just look at the Vindicator, so much quirk. Good enough to have fun with in QP. But not competitive or to be taken seriously.

Edited by MechaBattler, 02 October 2017 - 11:51 AM.

[Verilligo]

Some mechs cannot be fixed without taking into account additional factors that PGI doesn't seem keen to include. Hardpoint placement, number of hardpoints, and overall size and dimensions on several chassis would need to be open to adjustment in order to do so. The differences between the two techbases is another thing altogether and I'm not sure you're ever going to solve that so long as the basic Clan balance philosophy gives them benefits to weapon weight, size, damage, AND range.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Bud Crue, on 02 October 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

Or maybe they will just nerf the Assasin and Wolfhound and gut the agility even more on all the Clan mechs listed above.

I don't suppose you want to do another "Guess the nerfs next patch" competition thread?

[Bud Crue]

Jay Leon Hart, on 02 October 2017 - 12:07 PM, said:

I don't suppose you want to do another "Guess the nerfs next patch" competition thread?

Only if PGI has the audacity to suggest that there will be a "major" pass, and that it has something to do with "balance". I just can't pass up mocking that sort of silliness, and will gladly toss out a few bucks to do it.

[C E Dwyer]

Wondering if this will stop the I.S OP screams in Faction play..then realises I'm being silly

Congratulations guys.

[Sjorpha]

If I were PGI my first change would be LFE no ST loss penalty and ISXL survive losing a ST with a penalty, and then buff the cooling of IS DHS so they are worth the extra crit slot.

Engines and heatsinks seem to be the most crucial imbalances to me, fix them first.

[JediPanther]

No surprise it's vastly clan and the major clan like are ach variants. IS can't do crap against clan in comp scene yet in solo q is are very good and fun. IS don't have a mech that can match the ach.

[Y E O N N E]

Sjorpha, on 02 October 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

If I were PGI my first change would be LFE no ST loss penalty and ISXL survive losing a ST with a penalty, and then buff the cooling of IS DHS so they are worth the extra crit slot.

Engines and heatsinks seem to be the most crucial imbalances to me, fix them first.

The key issues really holding IS down are:

• Too much heat for the damage dealt - destroys sustained output across the entire weight range; here's a comparison of all the vomit builds)
  
• Not enough armor for the damage sustained - this is most notable on Assaults and Mediums, which are both too slow for the amount of protection they offer against the weapons being fielded
  
• Not enough range at the extreme end - cERLL straight-up out-class the isERLL unless there are some major quirks going on; we're talking 776 m vs. 851 and the latter can afford to be coupled with much larger Targeting Computers

None of these is particularly hard to fix.

[Trenchbird]

I mean, I'd give money to a great Wolfhound pilot. Little buggers are nasty, even if they can't survive getting "In your face" like the ACH kind of can.

[justcallme A S H]

The Nerf Bat, on 02 October 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:

Last year the white knights and the clan apologist defended the lack of I.S. mechs in the world finals on things like old client build and saying the balance a lot gotten better. Here we are a year later, and even with the civil war tech, the I.S. mechs are still poorly represented. I'm just waiting to see how they will spin it this year.

Yeah it'll be interesting that's for sure. The major issues?

- IS XL vs cXL imbalance
- Clan range buff of 4% thanks to skill trees total failure and IS quirk reduction
- Poptarting ability. Heavily favours clan, always has.
- IS ERPPC is still a joke
- PGI Power Creep - So many new mechs (mainly Clan) with high torso mounts

That about summarises it.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 02 October 2017 - 04:56 PM.

[Herodes]

I am fed up with the Clan crap.
The Clans ruined TT, they are ruining MWO for years now.
And there must be reasons why this is still a major problem here. All the reasons I can come up with disgust me.
Then I see the new announcement for yet another nice Clan terror. And I wonder about IS Locusts and Commandos and where their place will be.

Best way seems to stop caring about the game.
Fool me once - shame on you. Fool me twice - shame on me.
Enough.

[Revis Volek]

Bud Crue, on 02 October 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

Don't forget that PGI's last stated official position is that mechs with quirks (IS mechs predominantly) represent power creep.

Yup. According to them (remember this gem): "overall quirks have introduced a level of powercreep that we feel is the wrong direction for mechwarrior online." So perhaps the MWOWC will be a wake up call to the folly of this position? Perhaps they will recognize what my my 7 year old noted back when the skills tree dropped that "making the bad mechs badder seems like a bad idea". Perhaps they will see that their reduction and in some cases the elimination of "narrow offensive quirks" that accompanied the Skills Tree patch was perhaps not the great balancing achievement that PGI expected it would be. Perhaps then PGI will have this post facto realization and decide to give some of the recently nerfed IS mech back some of their power creep introducing quirks back so that they might be a wee bit more competitive.

Or maybe they will just nerf the Assasin and Wolfhound and gut the agility even more on all the Clan mechs listed above.

Which do you think is more likely?

This would mean becoming aware of a mistake and then having the guts to admit you made one.


In all the years i have been here PGi has never been capable or willing to do either. Most people with over bearing egos cant even understand how they are being most the time.

justcallme A S H, on 02 October 2017 - 04:17 PM, said:

Yeah it'll be interesting that's for sure. The major issues?

- IS XL vs cXL imbalance
- Clan range buff of 4% thanks to skill trees total failure and IS quirk reduction
- Poptarting ability. Heavily favours clan, always has.
- IS ERPPC is still a joke


That about summarises it.

You seem to be forgetting 2 slot DHS and smaller weapons as well as the ability to turn a lame duck variant (hardpoint wise) into a stone cold killer.

IS never had an answer for this stuff either...but they were very strongk apparently.

Edited by Revis Volek, 02 October 2017 - 04:22 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Totally agree about admitting mistakes. There have been plenty, most rarely get acknowledged, fixed or even stopped from happening again.

Revis Volek, on 02 October 2017 - 04:24 PM, said:

You seem to be forgetting 2 slot DHS and smaller weapons as well as the ability to turn a lame duck variant (hardpoint wise) into a stone cold killer.

IS never had an answer for this stuff either...but they were very strongk apparently.

Well yeah there is that - but a lot of that is should/could be cancelled out by quirks if balancing was being done correctly - Look at the GHP-5H as an example. That -10% balances up nicely, but it has **** mounts so it's not going to work in a long range engagement which is essentially what Div A comp is - shooting stuff @ 1000m+

I would also add in one thing:

- PGI Power Creep - So many new mechs (mainly Clan) with high torso mounts

[Y E O N N E]

justcallme A S H, on 02 October 2017 - 04:43 PM, said:

- PGI Power Creep - So many new mechs (mainly Clan) with high torso mounts

And lots of hardpoints so you can one-two punch a target for two IS alpha's worth of damage.

[Lucky Noob]

and the Solution, lets give the Clans an 12 MG Light so Players dont have to use an Wolfhound anymore

[justcallme A S H]

Yeonne Greene, on 02 October 2017 - 04:49 PM, said:

And lots of hardpoints so you can one-two punch a target for two IS alpha's worth of damage.

This is also true, although not *so* much of an issue in that cERL and cERPP have reasonable ghost heat restrictions.

The actual 1-2 punch from a BLR vs a SNV aren't too far off given the BLR can dump the load much faster... Problem is... It's horribly out-ranged so it doesn't matter at the end of the day.

Def different though in lower Divs of play where brawling is still viable. The punch Clan can take over IS is, large.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 02 October 2017 - 05:00 PM.

[El Bandito]

Eat your hearts out, Clan apologists!

[Y E O N N E]

justcallme A S H, on 02 October 2017 - 04:59 PM, said:

This is also true, although not *so* much of an issue in that cERL and cERPP have reasonable ghost heat restrictions.

The actual 1-2 punch from a BLR vs a SNV aren't too far off given the BLR can dump the load much faster... Problem is... It's horribly out-ranged so it doesn't matter at the end of the day.

Def different though in lower Divs of play where brawling is still viable. The punch Clan can take over IS is, large.

It's not the one-two from ERLL that are the thing to write home about; I think the BLR acquits itself fairly decently against an SNV, let down mostly by range and heat rather than damage.

It's the one-two from cSPL (historical), cERSL, and cMPL in the few closer-quarters maps that are the thing the IS could never match. Closest they got was the 7x MedPulse Thunderbolt...which got nerfed by both ghost heat and range reductions.

[justcallme A S H]

Yeah agree - hence brawling ranges, clan mechs are godlike there simple from hardpoints sake.

I mean after this tournament expect a big WLF nerf and that's about it IMO.

[50 50]

So why not have two branches to the tournament?
IS only.
Clan only.