160 replies to this topic

[poopenshire]

Ghogiel, on 09 October 2017 - 05:52 AM, said:

they already are likely to incure at a minimum of a 10min penalty in just one game as is since the penalties can stack all in one game.
All they need to do is 70 team dmg to hit the 10sec timer, 1tk to hit the second 2min, then 10min for their 2nd tk.

If they end up with 150dmg and a 3rd tk on top the account would be locked out for like 4hrs. Which by the sounds of it is probably what it ends up at most of the time anyway. No matter any timeout changes, which I would staunchly be against increasing, they probably aren't waiting around for 4hrs for their timeout to reset, they are just relogging.

After a certain point would you think an IP lock out? maybe even installtion based lock out?

I know if you have that many accounts you can change IP pretty darn easily if not VPN or ghost your IP. Hence why a unique installation ID would work, but yes that too can be thwarted with VMs.

I know I am really stretching here, but its just a thought. You could link an installation through a code email when signing up and logging in. I know this is not thought out well, but maybe someone could expand on it.

[Dr Cara Carcass]

poopenshire, on 09 October 2017 - 03:37 AM, said:

I have a question, I have seen it hinted at but not fully discussed.

We know we already have a timeout timer for team damage and it progressively increases for repeated infractions (it includes TKs)

Is this system maybe on the right path but needs to be increased in penalties or does it need to lead to different penalties?

Edit: added "timeout"

I think that system i good. It just needs some tweaking. Id say if you add up every team damge that came in packages of more than 10 dmg to roule out collisions or some grazeing lasers or such up to the point of the first fire exchange with the enemy and then increasing the penaltys a bit we are fine. At least the top of the tier levels has practically no such problems. I know from experience of other players of my unit that at rank 5 its very different during days. Also if someone test his lasers at the start of a match and some mech suddenly turns and runs into it, a too harsh punishment is not good. One would have to check for that too.

1.) add upp all damage before the first fire between teams is exchanged.
2.) if that is more than lets say 20 give the player 1 penalty point.
3.) add 1 penalty point for every 10 dmg above the initial 20 dmg.
4.) mid fight team damage - look at patterns. if it happens 3 games in a row something is happening.
5.) Teamkills with 3 team dmg are neglectible.
6.) Keep in mind that accidential team kills will not really be reported that often.

I guess i can give a pseudocode for an automated penalty system. It shouldnt be to hard to make it work and take care of most cases after a day of tinkering. I think PGI has all the tools needed to tighten the penalty system a bit without overdoing it.

Edited by Cara Carcass, 09 October 2017 - 07:24 AM.

[James Argent]

Everybody needs to stop suggesting penalties that occur after the fact. THE TKers DON'T CARE ABOUT ANY PENALTIES, because they have hundreds of different accounts to which they can switch and never bother coming back to the account with the penalties. You have to make it so that:

A. They can't simply switch to one of the hundreds of accounts they currently already have and continue a TKing rampage without an effort significant enough to make it not worth their time to prepare all their accounts to drop.

B. Whatever you implement to deter the TKers isn't onerous enough to keep a legitimate new player account or a single alt account for an existing player from getting to the field in a reasonable amount of time.

There have only been two suggestions that meet this criteria.

The first is to have no Team Damage during Cadet Bonus matches. This would force the TKers to play 25 matches each time they switched accounts before they can resume TKing. The potential downside to this is that they could just DC at the beginning of those 25 matches. However, that's 25 matches where the team is only down one mech, which would have otherwise been down two or more because of the TKer (who wouldn't have helped the team anyway) and his TK target(s). Not really a positive, but at least a mitigating factor.

The second is my own, to require each account with zero drops on it to attain a passing score on at least the first level of every tutorial in the MechWarrior Academy before being allowed to drop into a match. Other games require tutorial completion before opening up the rest of the game...why not this one? True new players should be required to do this anyway instead of being an instant burden to their teams until they figure out under fire how to do...well, anything, and it would be no big deal for an existing player to do it once for a single legit alt account.

I see no reason why these two suggestions couldn't be combined. The goal is to make it painful to make it painful to others, without making it painful to play legitimately. We can't eliminate TKers completely, but we can make it so that throwaway accounts don't make it so easy to spam TKs.

[Mainhunter]

I only got one time TK in 20k games and I didn't even bothered....

[Scout Derek]

James Argent, on 09 October 2017 - 07:56 AM, said:

Everybody needs to stop suggesting penalties that occur after the fact. THE TKers DON'T CARE ABOUT ANY PENALTIES, because they have hundreds of different accounts to which they can switch and never bother coming back to the account with the penalties. You have to make it so that:

A. They can't simply switch to one of the hundreds of accounts they currently already have and continue a TKing rampage without an effort significant enough to make it not worth their time to prepare all their accounts to drop.

B. Whatever you implement to deter the TKers isn't onerous enough to keep a legitimate new player account or a single alt account for an existing player from getting to the field in a reasonable amount of time.

There have only been two suggestions that meet this criteria.

The first is to have no Team Damage during Cadet Bonus matches. This would force the TKers to play 25 matches each time they switched accounts before they can resume TKing. The potential downside to this is that they could just DC at the beginning of those 25 matches. However, that's 25 matches where the team is only down one mech, which would have otherwise been down two or more because of the TKer (who wouldn't have helped the team anyway) and his TK target(s). Not really a positive, but at least a mitigating factor.

The second is my own, to require each account with zero drops on it to attain a passing score on at least the first level of every tutorial in the MechWarrior Academy before being allowed to drop into a match. Other games require tutorial completion before opening up the rest of the game...why not this one? True new players should be required to do this anyway instead of being an instant burden to their teams until they figure out under fire how to do...well, anything, and it would be no big deal for an existing player to do it once for a single legit alt account.

I see no reason why these two suggestions couldn't be combined. The goal is to make it painful to make it painful to others, without making it painful to play legitimately. We can't eliminate TKers completely, but we can make it so that throwaway accounts don't make it so easy to spam TKs.

This game actually requires you to complete the Tutorial. Otherwise, you're prompted with a huge screen popup about the Mechacademy to do it.

And in all honesty, Friendly Fire should be removed now that we have a Comp Que.

In other games, such as CSGO, they do not have FF on in regular matches, but in Competitive matches there is FF.

I think we need to start following other game's examples if we are to have a good game.

[James Argent]

How much of the Academy is required for the tutorial to be considered complete? I know you have to sit there and listen to Captain Adams for a bit, but once he turns you loose in the Academy I think you can drop out without doing any of the exercises.

[poopenshire]

I think there is a setting in the cfg files that allows you to skip the tutorial.

I think I remember when installing MWO on my laptop I just copied and pasted the cfg files and I was able to log in and just start playing, or maybe its logged on the Server side and when a client logs in from an account that has completed the tutorial its not required again.

Not sure which is how it works, but I think its one of those two.

[Dr Cara Carcass]

James Argent, on 09 October 2017 - 07:56 AM, said:

Everybody needs to stop suggesting penalties that occur after the fact. THE TKers DON'T CARE ABOUT ANY PENALTIES, because they have hundreds of different accounts to which they can switch and never bother coming back to the account with the penalties. You have to make it so that:

A. They can't simply switch to one of the hundreds of accounts they currently already have and continue a TKing rampage without an effort significant enough to make it not worth their time to prepare all their accounts to drop.

B. Whatever you implement to deter the TKers isn't onerous enough to keep a legitimate new player account or a single alt account for an existing player from getting to the field in a reasonable amount of time.

There have only been two suggestions that meet this criteria.

The first is to have no Team Damage during Cadet Bonus matches. This would force the TKers to play 25 matches each time they switched accounts before they can resume TKing. The potential downside to this is that they could just DC at the beginning of those 25 matches. However, that's 25 matches where the team is only down one mech, which would have otherwise been down two or more because of the TKer (who wouldn't have helped the team anyway) and his TK target(s). Not really a positive, but at least a mitigating factor.

The second is my own, to require each account with zero drops on it to attain a passing score on at least the first level of every tutorial in the MechWarrior Academy before being allowed to drop into a match. Other games require tutorial completion before opening up the rest of the game...why not this one? True new players should be required to do this anyway instead of being an instant burden to their teams until they figure out under fire how to do...well, anything, and it would be no big deal for an existing player to do it once for a single legit alt account.

I see no reason why these two suggestions couldn't be combined. The goal is to make it painful to make it painful to others, without making it painful to play legitimately. We can't eliminate TKers completely, but we can make it so that throwaway accounts don't make it so easy to spam TKs.

You are waaaay over inflating the situation. Creating hundeds of account takes ages. Perhaps we can keep the discussion within proportions so that we can find a accurate sollution. Youa re sounding like a feminist insisting that every 2nd women on campus will be ***** completely ignoreing thjat this statistic would be worse than in the middle of countries ruled by warlords werre **** is a used as a weapon.

So does it happen to you every game? Every 2nd? what is it? I havent seen it the alst 2k games i played
Please make an honest statistic, write down teh number of games and the number of early teamkillers. From what i ehar from my units rank 5 ppl this happened a few times but its faw away from ppl haveing hundeds of accoutns simply ruining every one of the games that are played with predominantly rank 5 players.

I will start the stats for rank 1

Games:24
Teamkillers due to intended friendly fire:0

Edited by Cara Carcass, 10 October 2017 - 02:41 AM.

[Big MO]

This does not need to be complicated. The TK problem does not exist with higher tier players. If it occurs at that level, its accidental. The problem is trolls creating new accounts and ruining the experience for new players. The fix has been suggested by others: make it to where new accounts cannot do damage to friendly mechs until they have played 25 games. Alternatively, turn off team damage until you attain Tier 3. That will be too much work for the trolls to have their fun.

[Dr Cara Carcass]

Big MO, on 09 October 2017 - 10:59 AM, said:

This does not need to be complicated. The TK problem does not exist with higher tier players. If it occurs at that level, its accidental. The problem is trolls creating new accounts and ruining the experience for new players. The fix has been suggested by others: make it to where new accounts cannot do damage to friendly mechs until they have played 25 games. Alternatively, turn off team damage until you attain Tier 3. That will be too much work for the trolls to have their fun.

that way you suddenly get a lot fo tier 3 players that dont know they do team damage.

[tortcat]

I still feel the easiest way to slow it down is to make the trial mechs scale to the number of training missions. You require a new account to complete a certain number of training missions before you can use a certain class of trial mech.

The dedicated team killers using the Kodiaks will get tired if thy have to keep redoing all training missions to open up the assaults etc

[James Argent]

I'm not exaggerating squat, here...the TKer's own brags in the in-game chat are that he used automation to literally sign up for hundreds of accounts. It doesn't happen in my tier either, but the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data.'

The number of threads alone about this topic should tell you that your 'anecdata' is faulty.

[Dr Cara Carcass]

James Argent, on 09 October 2017 - 11:39 AM, said:

I'm not exaggerating squat, here...the TKer's own brags in the in-game chat are that he used automation to literally sign up for hundreds of accounts. It doesn't happen in my tier either, but the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data.'

The number of threads alone about this topic should tell you that your 'anecdata' is faulty.

Show me that statistic...... i have been playing 11 games now with our unit newcommer at rank 5 - i have seen 0 teamkills.
So far it seems to be less than 10% of the games. And i bet at the end of the evening its going to be less than 5%.
I asked around and our low tiers didnt say a word beyond it happend once during the last month.

Edited by Cara Carcass, 09 October 2017 - 11:49 AM.

[James Argent]

You're in the group queue...you won't see it.

[Dr Cara Carcass]

James Argent, on 09 October 2017 - 11:56 AM, said:

You're in the group queue...you won't see it.

Thats why i asked around at our solo levl 5 players....

[Rick T Dangerous]

Cara Carcass, on 09 October 2017 - 11:29 AM, said:

that way you suddenly get a lot fo tier 3 players that dont know they do team damage.

Solution: don't make team damage do damage to friendlies, but let it show in the stats, including C-bill penalty. That way players in Tiers 4 and 5 don't actually do TD, but they'll know that they better avoid shooting at friendlies.

[Dr Cara Carcass]

Rick T Dangerous, on 09 October 2017 - 01:45 PM, said:

Solution: don't make team damage do damage to friendlies, but let it show in the stats, including C-bill penalty. That way players in Tiers 4 and 5 don't actually do TD, but they'll know that they better avoid shooting at friendlies.

That way everybody whill cuddle on mechs and be greedy trying to get kills. I think teamdamage is a ust and i dont want to see this game without it.

[Oldbob10025]

I do like the suggestion of having the person or new guy not be able to do any team damage till match 26th as it would force him or her to play the game for a while with that account they intent to go kill or disrupt the team.Once they get their jolly's on killing for about 3 games they would be banned and would have to go and play another 25 games before they can teamkill again.

This has been done in many games to stop gold farmers when you have to level up to 10 or so just to be able to speak on global chat or what not. This is not that much to ask and would make the more new guy(not the one team killing) learn a bit about the game with out having all of us jump on his *** for doing team damage.

its not a end all be all idea on stopping greifers that come into MWO because they are 4 year old kids that didnt get what they want or got banned on their own accounts for being *** HATS but it would curve it a bit with out too much disruption to the new players that come and play the game as intended.

[Tarl Cabot]

Cara Carcass, on 09 October 2017 - 03:12 PM, said:

That way everybody whill cuddle on mechs and be greedy trying to get kills. I think teamdamage is a ust and i dont want to see this game without it.

Same but they can cut the ACTUAL team damage by 50% while penalizing the shooter for the full damage.

They could even have it go up in levels.

Cadet would do only actual 25% team damage but penalized for 100% of it, with penalties. Once Cadet finished it changes to 50% actual damage w/100% penalty.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 09 October 2017 - 03:38 PM.

[UnofficialOperator]

Is there some kind of law or legal issues around banning by mac address? Or even compiling mac information?

Edited by UnofficialOperator, 09 October 2017 - 04:08 PM.