159 replies to this topic

[Joshua McEvedy]

Johnny Z, on 10 October 2017 - 02:16 AM, said:

Anyway MW 5 looks like its going to be epic. Really.

Just like MWO did in 2011.

Good luck, champ.

[Johnny Z]

LordNothing, on 10 October 2017 - 01:33 AM, said:

modders always like to push engines far beyond whats possible. then when you try to run it on a machine anywhere below top of the line and it doesnt work, because you failed to understand the limitations of the engine. years roll on by and we still dont have the cpu power to run all that n^2 crap that you are making your engine chew through, because moore's law is dead. the techpocalypse is nigh!

also depth of field isnt really that hard to do. all you are doing is using the value from the z buffer to determine how much to blur that pixel, its fairly linear. its so old it was a selling point for one of the latter day voodoo cards.

This is from another of the top 3 modders. Shows whats possible when the limitations of customers machines are not a factor. Fallout 4 does not look this good without these modders.



Hard to believe a girl is making things most players wont see in any game for a few years, at least not without a lot of video lag. But she is really good and has tutorials.

Again will MW 5 have any modding I wonder. Or rather how easy will it be to mod. So many questions.

Edited by Johnny Z, 10 October 2017 - 03:44 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Jay Leon Hart, on 10 October 2017 - 03:05 AM, said:

I will probably buy MW5. I'll buy it at release if it remains single player, but if they add multiplayer (like HBS did with BT, hence the delays), then I'll wait for a Steam sale.

If you are referring to the Kickstarter date, I believe that was an estimation based off of the base SP Skirmish Mode game that was already funded when the Kickstarter first started. Multiplayer was just one of many stretch goals that added development time to that base estimate. Although Multiplayer probably added some development time, multiplayer is currently in the Beta (and has been for a month I think). That is why I think the biggest addition to development time is the SP Campaign (where all the meat and potatoes of the SP Merc experience lies).

That is why I wouldn't blame Multiplayer for that.

Now if you were referring to the other unfortunate delay (late 2017 to early 2018), I have a feeling that was thanks mostly to a Unity engine update breaking the game and the development tools they were using. You can read about that here...
https://www.kickstar...h/posts/1824640

They never explicitly stated that, but it did delay the Beta and I have a feeling it caused a rippling effect throughout development.

Overall, I don't think any of the extended release dates from HBS were caused explicitly by Multiplayer. If anything, it was the stretch goals in general (I'm guessing mostly the SP Campaign) and the Unity engine update that caused them to focus on repairing a lot of the systems they were using to develop the game.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 10 October 2017 - 04:11 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Joshua McEvedy, on 10 October 2017 - 03:34 AM, said:

Just like MWO did in 2011.

Good luck, champ.

This sort of vibe is what this whole debate comes down to. Folks feeling like they were burnt in the past from PGI’s and more specifically Russ Bullock’s total misrepresentations about MWO are now reading this “review” of a new PGI product and seeing the same sorts of obvious puffery and typical Russ lines (to paraphrase: “we are all about giving the players...what they want, immersion, details, lore, complexity, etc.”) which have in regard to MWO been proven laughable if not outright false. Thus, we are assuming (quite logically and reasonably given that past) that they will be false in regard to MW5. This utterly predictable negativity should not be a suprize to anyone.

But then you have to keep in mind that that article isn’t directed to the existing MWO customer base and its familiarity with Russ’s minimally viable attitude toward his customers and his product. Rather that article is tailored for and directed to the 27 remaining people out there who still haven’t played MWO but are interested in BT and MW games of old.

Edited by Bud Crue, 10 October 2017 - 04:13 AM.

[Dogstar]

Stonefalcon, on 09 October 2017 - 05:33 PM, said:

I've learnt that PCGamer always writes a good review when enough cash has been thrown at them.

Yep, they sell them by the page as far as I'm aware, not an honest or trustworthy publication

[Joshua McEvedy]

Johnny Z, on 10 October 2017 - 03:12 AM, said:

Seriously? Going to jump on every stray word?

Russ has lots of stray words in case you haven't noticed.

[slide]

Johnny Z, on 10 October 2017 - 02:21 AM, said:

Maybe some left because of over hyped drama. The typical over hyped negative drama some push on so many games.

Fallout 4 is being review bombed at this very moment over fictional drama. The game that made 260 million more than the next highest earning game on launch day.

Anyone pays attention to this drama is daft.

As for your second point on if MechWarrior 5 will deliver, that remains to be seen. Pre reviewing it is weak and rather uncool.

If your a Star Citizen or Ubisoft or EA troll then LOL. My guess is EA troll. Shouldn't really lump Ubisoft in there because I think they are still trying and may actually produce a good game some day, but I always do anyway.

Good to see you like making assumptions about what I do with my time. So let me set something straight for you. EA games, I am sure I own some some where, was C&C theirs, can't remember. Never, ever visited their forums that's for sure. Ubisoft, Origin or any others same. Star Citizen, was convinced by a friend I met here to by into it. I got a 300i. I then took the very valuable lessons I learnt from PGI and promptly forgot that I did so. I don't even bother to read the weekly updates they send me and won't until they actually have a game that is functional beyond a few beta test modules (I did actually update my game client on the weekend, I wasn't impressed)

The facts are this Johnny Sunshine and Rainbows, the only forums I have ever frequented with regularity are these ones, this is the only online game I have ever been involved with. Any opinion, attitude or other emotion or experience I have with online games has been created by PGI. I was the happiest person in the world when I got my closed beta invite, if I am unhappy now it is because PGI made it so.

Nobody (or very few) come into a game, spend upwards of $1000 with the intention of becoming a bitter vet. That attitude is created. The only people responsible for the creation of bitter vets is PGI and the way they treat their customers, with deceit, mis-information or complete changes of attitude.

Sooner or later PGI will do something you don't like, or fail to deliver on something that they suggested, that you really wanted to happen, then maybe your positiveness will fail you too.

[Dogstar]

Minimally viable producer produces minimally viable product!

[Jay Leon Hart]

MeiSooHaityu, on 10 October 2017 - 04:11 AM, said:

Overall, I don't think any of the extended release dates from HBS were caused explicitly by Multiplayer. If anything, it was the stretch goals in general (I'm guessing mostly the SP Campaign) and the Unity engine update that caused them to focus on repairing a lot of the systems they were using to develop the game.

You're probably correct, but historically "tacked on" multiplayer brings down the quality of the single player experience. Hopefully this is not the case with BT, but my hopes are pretty low.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Jay Leon Hart, on 10 October 2017 - 04:40 AM, said:

You're probably correct, but historically "tacked on" multiplayer brings down the quality of the single player experience. Hopefully this is not the case with BT, but my hopes are pretty low.

I believe it can sometimes (I don't think it did the Mass Effect series any favors), but I am not getting that vibe from BT.

The 4 v 4 Single Player skirmish play was already there as the base bare bones game, all they did was add a 4 v 4 Multiplayer skirmish. MP required some additional effort towards netcode and probably some additional balancing considerations, however I don't see it derailing effort in any way that would create a negative impact on SP Campaign development.

[General Solo]

Joshua McEvedy, on 10 October 2017 - 03:05 AM, said:

And remind me again why we now have simple 2-bucket 'Faction Warfare' instead of a much richer multi-faceted "Community Warfare?"

Cause its a dying game mode?

[MeiSooHaityu]

I think that when it comes to MechWarrior 5:Mercs, cautious optimism is safe.

I want it to be good, I hope it will be good, and I think it has a chance to be good. However, I will also take all my experiences with PGI/MWO into consideration and use that as an anchor to stay grounded.

Regardless, I will follow it's development and look for additional info on it with excitement. I will also keep in mind that it might not be exactly what I want it to be or what I thought it should be.

[General Solo]

I hope Joystick and peripheral support is good so I can hand off keyboard.

Cause I'm guessing with aa Virtual Reality headset, its kind of hard to see your keyboard.

SIMPIT

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 10 October 2017 - 05:05 AM.

[Thorn Hallis]

I want to believe in a good MW5, advertised as a modern recreation/mix of the original Mechwarrior and Mechwarrior 2 Mercenaries.

But I also wanted to believe in MWO, advertised as a modern MPBT with built-in planetary league.

[ForceUser]

slide, on 09 October 2017 - 07:38 PM, said:

Russ may very well be trying to build the game fans want, he might also be trying to do justice to the universe it is set in.

I see several problems with this though.

1. Russ has seriously burnt many of the people who this type of game would (and should) be aimed at. It is debatable how many of these he can get back. This seriously hurts MW5's viability which may very well force a change in the target audience (again).

2. Can he actually deliver on what he is saying. History would say no.

3. MW5 will likely gut the number of players in MWO. Could this be when they shut down the servers or go into maintenance mode. Some would argue we are already there.

It is my hope that Russ has done a reciprocal deal with HBS where they supply the sim game in exchange for PGI's models. It wouldn't be difficult to tailor HBS part to suit what MW5 needs with a few minor changes here and there (ie take out the ARGO). If I remember correctly even the number of available worlds is similar at around 300, so the possibility exists. Along with the limited customization, functioning economies ,story driven and random missions, there are a lot of similarities. The sim part of it, "Mech Tycoon" if you will, only requires input from missions, ie win/lose, salvage, mechs lost, pilots injured etc to function. Missions can be real time, FP or turn based it doesn't really matter as long as there are results. I also feel it is redundant for 2 companies to basically develop the same model for 2 games. Anyway might be my wishful thinking.

I really hope he can deliver what he describes, because I will play it. But I am going to have to see it before I spend any money on it.

I see several problem with your post

1)If MW5 is good then most if not all MW fans will eventually try it out. There are no alternative MW games or heck, Mech sim games really available. If it's bad then yea, plenty of people won't try it out.

2)While there are certain things that they have not been able to fully deliver on, for various reasons, there is also a lot of things that they have delivered on. The world isn't just black and white.

3) MW5 is a Single player only, limited customization, economy / sandbox game, how will that gut players from a pure PVP online Arena Mech shooter with almost complete customization?

4) HBS is actually using MWO mech models. We already know this, this is confirmed and is one of the best things they could have done since it helps establish cohesive art between games in the same universe. This will be incredibly important for cross pollination between Battletech and MW5 and MWO and MWOs eventual successor.

5) Both Battletech and MW5 has an extremely similar setup (merc company, open ended, limited customization, starts pre clan, etc.) and I'm 100% sure this is not by accident. Cohesion in a franchise across multiple products is an incredibly powerful marketing and branding tool.

[poopenshire]

[mod]

This is the only warning you will get on this. There are some borderline personal attacks here, and they will be cleaned up, as well some trolling and flaming going on. I am going to lock this temporarily and clean it up. I will then unlock it. I will post when its unlocked. If you want this thread to stay open keep it civil and stop activities you know will get it closed down.


Edit: Page is now unlocked again. Please stay on topic.

[/mod]

Edited by poopenshire, 10 October 2017 - 06:31 AM.

[Davegt27]

I have a good friend that when I say "boy your cheap"

he shots back "no I am thrifty"

it was a light hearted but true statement about people that are to cheap
to buy modules (oh I am sorry thrifty, to thrifty)

anyone older then 10 would see this and blow it off (ok let me correct that statement only 10 year girls get offended by stuff like that)

I challenge people to listen to an old pod cast from 4 years ago and see if they learn anything

https://soundcloud.c...hs-devs-beer-12

most of the stuff PGI has done they did mention and talk about
but the trolls would not listen

then later they cry like some one stole there big wheel

Edited by Davegt27, 10 October 2017 - 07:11 AM.

[Jun Watarase]

I remember when MW5 was announced, people tried to point out that it was like MWO all over again (false promises, etc). They were drowned out by hordes of people posting "omg i cant wait to pre-order this!!! stop being so negative it's going to be awesome!!! i want to customize my madcat!!!".

When people tried to point out that this meant that a ton of development resources would not be going to MWO (a game that badly needs development), they were again drowned out by people going "omg mw5 mercs i've been waiting for a single player campaign forever!!! screw online, single player is where it's at!!!"

The customer base literally asked for this.

[MechaBattler]

Most of what they're advertising sounds totally plausible, even for PGI. Isn't destructible environment built into the Unreal4 engine? So that's not even them doing the real work for that. They're not trying to reinvent the wheel when it comes to MechWarrior.

I think what we have to worry about are bugs, general optimization, and just how bad the AI is. I'll personally just wait for release and reviews.

Edited by MechaBattler, 10 October 2017 - 09:01 AM.

[Alan Davion]

Johnny Z, on 10 October 2017 - 02:52 AM, said:

There is no way they can turn it into a ME: Andromeda scale disaster. Its just impossible.

And yet all other evidence as far as PGI and MWO is concerned says other wise.

Quite literally the ONLY thing MWO has going for it is the superb artwork of Alex, while just about everything else about MWO has failed spectacularly.

And what's really funny? On numerous occasions, the community warned PGI, PGI went blazing ahead anyway, and oh, hey, look, they f***ed up yet something else and have to waste more time fixing it, and a half dozen other things when if they'd just listened to us, they wouldn't have to waste time constantly fixing every nanoscopic problem that they create for themselves.