118 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

PurpleNinja, on 12 October 2017 - 12:10 PM, said:

What's the meaning of life?

Apparently how good your charts are.

[PurpleNinja]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 12 October 2017 - 12:19 PM, said:

Apparently how good your charts are.

That and MOAR mechs.

[MadRover]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 12 October 2017 - 12:19 PM, said:

Apparently how good your charts are.

So that makes you... chartman?

[Johnny Z]

As expected Titanfall didn't really take off even with its second game. At least this is what I expected anyway.

Ubisoft has a similar title coming out. It doesn't look good either.

Star Wars BF 2.5 is flailing already.

Star Citizen is wallowing in bad design gone wrong.

Star Trek?!?

Point being MechWarrior is a better title being run by a better company. It may gain a lot of traction now that its direct competition has failed to take off.

This is about sci-fi vehicle based games and sci-fi in general. There is for sure a market there. No title has capitalized on it yet.

+1 for Aerotech and player characters and aliens.




* Battletech and MechWarrior is worth an absolute fortune going forward with all the failing going on with the competition.

Edited by Johnny Z, 12 October 2017 - 03:59 PM.

[Magnus Santini]

If MW5 flops I am going to enjoy the heck out of it and laugh at the bad choices of game players. But I think it is going to be a hit, and if they ever ported mwo to the unreal engine, I would take it in stride.

[Alistair Winter]

I'm only waiting for Kingdom Come: Deliverance, Star Citizen and Mechwarrior 5 right now. I'm just playing Witcher 3 to keep me occupied. Fortunately, that's a pretty big game, with the DLC. If MW5 fails, then that's 33% of the promising games on the horizon gone, for me.

I agree with what has been said already. If it flops, then it's basically game over for the Mechwarrior franchise for a while, and PGI will have to downsize. If it is a success, then they will make MWO2 on the foundation of the MW5 game. And they will make everyone pay to buy the same mech packs a second time. And then people will have two collections of mechs, each worth hundreds or thousands of dollars.

I'm still hoping for both MW5 and MWO2 to be great games, but I think MW5 would need to be a good success and MWO would need to be dead for a while, in order to build up the kind of hunger that would make most of the old customers throw money at mech packs a second time. It may not be a good idea to keep MWO alive until MWO2 is released. And I certainly don't think it's a good idea to merely create a multiplayer component of MW5, unless it's effectively an integrated version MWO, which requires you to buy mechbays and mechs, just like MWO.

[Johnny Z]

Alistair Winter, on 12 October 2017 - 04:42 PM, said:

I'm only waiting for Kingdom Come: Deliverance, Star Citizen and Mechwarrior 5 right now. I'm just playing Witcher 3 to keep me occupied. Fortunately, that's a pretty big game, with the DLC. If MW5 fails, then that's 33% of the promising games on the horizon gone, for me.

I agree with what has been said already. If it flops, then it's basically game over for the Mechwarrior franchise for a while, and PGI will have to downsize. If it is a success, then they will make MWO2 on the foundation of the MW5 game. And they will make everyone pay to buy the same mech packs a second time. And then people will have two collections of mechs, each worth hundreds or thousands of dollars.

I'm still hoping for both MW5 and MWO2 to be great games, but I think MW5 would need to be a good success and MWO would need to be dead for a while, in order to build up the kind of hunger that would make most of the old customers throw money at mech packs a second time. It may not be a good idea to keep MWO alive until MWO2 is released. And I certainly don't think it's a good idea to merely create a multiplayer component of MW5, unless it's effectively an integrated version MWO, which requires you to buy mechbays and mechs, just like MWO.

KCD is a pale comparison to M&B II Bannerlord which will be epic when it comes out.

Star Citizen wont compare in any way to the title Bethesda is rumoured to be doing.

MechWarrior Online has a lot still to be added I am guessing.

MW 5 looks really good. I hope they don't forget to add the player to the game. As in player character. You can bet Bethesda wont forget to add that with their new title.

Then there is Cyberpunk 2077 which should be amazing.

Kenshi on Steam along with MechWarrior online are titles worth playing available already.

Edited by Johnny Z, 12 October 2017 - 05:05 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Bud Crue, on 12 October 2017 - 02:31 AM, said:

If it flops, this game gets updated and we continue to muddle along for as long as mech packs keep PGI afloat.

If it succeeds, then MWO ceases to exist within a year. PGI will be convinced of their amazing game development skills and they will create a MWO2 based on the MW5 game, and we will all get to start over. There will be no account transfers or continuations.

I would say that that would be one the worst moves they could possibly ever make honestly, they would have to be so far up their own butts to actually do it, that they would create some kind of singularity unto themselves.

Seriously. MW5 is supposed to be single player focused unless something changed recently, and I personally am not a big fan of single player vs NPC games anymore, the dynamic unpredictability of humans in MMO settings has ruined me for single player games in the large majority. So with that in mind MW5 is likely a project I would never purchase personally, and MWO remains the main place for mechwarrior multiplayer fights online.

The idea that they would dump everyone's support of this project while at the same time actually dumping this whole project and replacing it with a "2" version..... Again, one of the stupidest moves they could ever make, it would be an unprecedented level of idiocy and disloyalty to their supporting/fan base, some might still hang on but that slap in the face would turn off a huge percentage of their current players from their development team permanently, and while the gimmick might attract a wave of newer players, they too would quickly learn that the MWO2 project is not worthy of putting any money into because there is likely an MWO3 coming that will delete all of your efforts and financial input/support.

It is just not going to happen, I mean if it does, I will eat those words, but again, it would also be signing their own death warrant as a development team and jeopardize their careers in game development in general. I mean think about what you are saying here.

[Johnny Z]

Shifty McSwift, on 12 October 2017 - 05:17 PM, said:

I would say that that would be one the worst moves they could possibly ever make honestly, they would have to be so far up their own butts to actually do it, that they would create some kind of singularity unto themselves.

Seriously. MW5 is supposed to be single player focused unless something changed recently, and I personally am not a big fan of single player vs NPC games anymore, the dynamic unpredictability of humans in MMO settings has ruined me for single player games in the large majority. So with that in mind MW5 is likely a project I would never purchase personally, and MWO remains the main place for mechwarrior multiplayer fights online.

The idea that they would dump everyone's support of this project while at the same time actually dumping this whole project and replacing it with a "2" version..... Again, one of the stupidest moves they could ever make, it would be an unprecedented level of idiocy and disloyalty to their supporting/fan base, some might still hang on but that slap in the face would turn off a huge percentage of their current players from their development team permanently, and while the gimmick might attract a wave of newer players, they too would quickly learn that the MWO2 project is not worthy of putting any money into because there is likely an MWO3 coming that will delete all of your efforts and financial input/support.

It is just not going to happen, I mean if it does, I will eat those words, but again, it would also be signing their own death warrant as a development team and jeopardize their careers in game development in general. I mean think about what you are saying here.

If its a good idea or not I wont even go into. Although I agree I don't think it is and wouldn't like it.

There have been to many large core additions to the game to suggest anything other than it continues to be built and on quite a large scale.

[Shifty McSwift]

Johnny Z, on 12 October 2017 - 05:28 PM, said:

If its a good idea or not I wont even go into. Although I agree I don't think it is and wouldn't like it.

There have been to many large core additions to the game to suggest anything other than it continues to be built and on quite a large scale.

A much more likely but still morally questionable path would be an extensive "update" for the MWO project, which would involve expanding the team for a period and updating the game and possibly engine to a reasonable standard of today, during that process of what would be periods of either massive patching or MWO staying as is with a bunch of coming soon advertisements about the project, and then through that the might add a subscription fee to the project or a "purchase/entry" fee for "re-buying" or newly purchasing (with either old account data stored or another refund of sorts for invested players depending on the level of change).

I say much more likely but even that is still unlikely, it is just the idea of an MWO2 is such a terrible one that the chances of it are almost non existent in my opinion.

More likely than that would be if MW5 is hugely successful, we will see a push on effect into MWO freely, which might mean extra devs or new project outlooks for MWO, and might definitely include extra paid elements or pay to early access etc, as there already has been.

The way to get people re-interested is though that kind of re-invigoration, it isn't like a standalone single player project with a defined start and end point of development and in game process, you can't just dump everyones investment in a project essentially to replace with exactly the same thing and just slap on a number 2 on there.

Keeping MWO open while making a new MMO called MWO2, maybe, but then that would involve keeping MWO open and separate, or transferring some kind of data or refund, or you just infuriate a whole bunch of your loyalists and sell mostly nothing. MWO getting shut down for like 5 or 10 years and then a new MWO project emerging, perhaps, but then you have to justify shutting down MWO in the first place (MW5 doing terribly might do that, but probably not).

Edited by Shifty McSwift, 12 October 2017 - 05:47 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

Johnny Z, on 12 October 2017 - 04:48 PM, said:

KCD is a pale comparison to M&B II Bannerlord which will be epic when it comes out.

I don't like the look of Bannerlord, personally. It looks too unrealistic. You see people cutting each other multiple times until their HP drops to 0. Now, I'm not saying that anyone who gets stabbed or cut would die instantly. But I felt that game was too unrealistic for my tastes. People running around with arrows sticking out of their chests. And the UI which makes the whole game look too much like an MMORPG, where people have unit insignia hovering over their heads. It's not for me.

I'm hoping KCD will be more realistic. The UI looks very minimalistic, which is a big deal for me. Makes the game more immersive. Confusing, sure. But I imagine mediaval battles were quite confusing.

Johnny Z, on 12 October 2017 - 04:48 PM, said:

Star Citizen wont compare in any way to the title Bethesda is rumoured to be doing.

I haven't liked any of Bethesda's games since Skyrim. Fallout 4 was a massive disappointment, I never even touched the Dishonored games or Prey. Until the next Elder Scrolls game comes out, I doubt they will have anything I'm interested in. It'll be years from now, at any rate.

What game are they rumored to be doing?

Johnny Z, on 12 October 2017 - 04:48 PM, said:

Then there is Cyberpunk 2077 which should be amazing.

Hopefully. Cyberpunk was the first paper RPG I ever played, and I'm obviously a big fan of the Witcher series.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Johnny Z, on 12 October 2017 - 03:43 PM, said:

As expected Titanfall didn't really take off even with its second game. At least this is what I expected anyway.

I've only played Titanfall trial but it's nothing comparable to MWO.

[Bud Crue]

Shifty McSwift, on 12 October 2017 - 05:17 PM, said:

It is just not going to happen, I mean if it does, I will eat those words, but again, it would also be signing their own death warrant as a development team and jeopardize their careers in game development in general. I mean think about what you are saying here.

Oh I've thought about it...way too much.

There is NO WAY they leave MWO, running on this engine if MW5 is a huge financial success on the unreal engine. NO WAY.
If it is the smash out of the park hit some of the folks above seem to think it will be, then MWO is done. I cannot fathom a circumstance were they leave this old game, on an old engine which they themselves have repeatedly admitted to being unable to modify to their liking due to unknown code issues (see Russ's infamous "LBX programmer left, and we can't do ammo switching with out him" debacle), a continuing and viable entity which spits their resources when they have a new more popular format sitting before them (again assuming it is the smash success many above are predicting). They can't feasibly port accounts from this game to a new game with different mechs, different mechanisms, different routes of player advancement, etc.and moreover, if it is a success, it will only be one if they get significant purchases from outside the niche of the MWO community. Thus, if that level of success happens, it will be further proof, from PGI's perspective that they don't NEED the MWO community for their future MW5 based success.

Its a ways away in any case. I hope I'm wrong but I know I am not. I've worked with too many start ups who at the first sign of a new products success they dump the old product, and quite often the old customers who are wedded to that old product. Only the biggest and most successful keep two largely redundant product lines going and only then when the costs to keep the older one going is minimal or zero. Doesn't matter its just an opinion.

[Shifty McSwift]

Bud Crue, on 12 October 2017 - 07:06 PM, said:

Oh I've thought about it...way too much.[snip for brevity]

The idea that the MWO we have right now might get redeveloped is one thing but the idea of just dumping not only their project in MWO but all of the money paid in by supporters, that helped the very funding for MW5 in pretty direct ways, are two very different things I guess.

If they put MWO to death and had a grace period of 5-10 years before some other similar styled project they might get away with it, but why would they also deprive themselves of something that is probably still profitable in the meantime. Developing on a new engine while leaving MWO open and then having some kind of new controversial refund system on that launch/replacing process would be much more par for the course and reasonable to think possible too.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Bud Crue, on 12 October 2017 - 07:06 PM, said:

There is NO WAY they leave MWO, running on this engine if MW5 is a huge financial success on the unreal engine. NO WAY.
If it is the smash out of the park hit some of the folks above seem to think it will be, then MWO is done. I cannot fathom a circumstance were they leave this old game, on an old engine which they themselves have repeatedly admitted to being unable to modify to their liking due to unknown code issues (see Russ's infamous "LBX programmer left, and we can't do ammo switching with out him" debacle), a continuing and viable entity which spits their resources when they have a new more popular format sitting before them (again assuming it is the smash success many above are predicting).

They can't feasibly port accounts from this game to a new game with different mechs, different mechanisms, different routes of player advancement, etc.and moreover, if it is a success, it will only be one if they get significant purchases from outside the niche of the MWO community. Thus, if that level of success happens, it will be further proof, from PGI's perspective that they don't NEED the MWO community for their future MW5 based success.

Its a ways away in any case. I hope I'm wrong but I know I am not. I've worked with too many start ups who at the first sign of a new products success they dump the old product, and quite often the old customers who are wedded to that old product. Only the biggest and most successful keep two largely redundant product lines going and only then when the costs to keep the older one going is minimal or zero. Doesn't matter its just an opinion.

Single player games are more hit and miss. You have to remember PGI is not just a developer, they are also publisher. So once they release MW5, they got like 2 sources of income. But unless MW5 becomes popular enough, they will still have limited ability to make new content to it(expansion DLCs). Eventually the sales will dry up, then what? They need MWO to stay alive.

As for Clan LBX, how many decades does an reason stay valid? 50 decades? One? Two years? The LBX excuse has become invalid ages ago.

[Bud Crue]

Teer Kerensky, on 12 October 2017 - 07:36 PM, said:

Single player games are more hit and miss. You have to remember PGI is not just a developer, they are also publisher. So once they release MW5, they got like 2 sources of income. But unless MW5 becomes popular enough, they will still have limited ability to make new content to it(expansion DLCs). Eventually the sales will dry up, then what? They need MWO to stay alive.

As for Clan LBX, how many decades does an reason stay valid? 50 decades? One? Two years? The LBX excuse has become invalid ages ago.

The premise is that MW5 becomes a PVP due to its single player massive sales success. That potential for multiplayer experience in MW5 has already been hinted at by PGI.

Again, my point is that I do not see them keeping 2 online, PVP formats of essentially the same type of game wherein one is MWO and the other is on a new engine of a new game of their complete and total creation. No way will they keep both if the latter proves to be a basis for success that they can reasonably rely on for future development. No way. If that does occur, they will not put in a ton of programming effort to try and create some sort of MWO to MW5O account port and conversion system. At best you can hope for is some sort of "loyalty" credit or some such thing, but what you have in MWO will be gone no matter what.

We can only wait and see, and have the fun of hoping that PGI can pull this off. If MW5 and its presumed eventual PVP functionality is awe inspiring and god forbid balanced, I won't give a damn about starting over. But that remains to be seen and will be a tall order indeed. I do hope that they manage it however.

[Lightfoot]

MW5 should have joystick support. I am sure it will unless it gets overlooked. MWO actually plays well with a joystick..Now, but did not for it's first 2 years or so. Long enough to discourage everyone from using a joystick. However, MechWarrior's mechs pilot more like planes in flight sims than FPS WASD avatars. As FPS avatars Mechs are very clunky.

I played with a Merc unit of fellow MechWarrior enthusiasts through MechWarrior 3, 4, Mercs, probably 60 to 70 players total over the years and all of them, 100 percent, used a Joystick, either alone or with a Mouse assist. I have not run into any of them playing MWO, so they may have tried MWO and just moved on when it had the really bad or no joystick support at first. Once you Joystick MechWarrior you never go back to Mouse.

I am saying all this because MechWarrior 5 can not make the same mistake that MWO did by releasing with no or bad Joystick support. That's going to cut the player base in half if PGI wants to sell MW5 to everyone who has played MechWarrior games in the past. And trust me, you want all those players buying a copy. And they will be asking if MW5 supports Joysticks before they buy.

Bud Crue, on 12 October 2017 - 07:45 PM, said:

The premise is that MW5 becomes a PVP due to its single player massive sales success. That potential for multiplayer experience in MW5 has already been hinted at by PGI.

Again, my point is that I do not see them keeping 2 online, PVP formats of essentially the same type of game wherein one is MWO and the other is on a new engine of a new game of their complete and total creation. No way will they keep both if the latter proves to be a basis for success that they can reasonably rely on for future development. No way. If that does occur, they will not put in a ton of programming effort to try and create some sort of MWO to MW5O account port and conversion system. At best you can hope for is some sort of "loyalty" credit or some such thing, but what you have in MWO will be gone no matter what.

We can only wait and see, and have the fun of hoping that PGI can pull this off. If MW5 and its presumed eventual PVP functionality is awe inspiring and god forbid balanced, I won't give a damn about starting over. But that remains to be seen and will be a tall order indeed. I do hope that they manage it however.

I foresee a merging of the two games if it goes that far. It might not be a merging on the programming level, but to players it will appear to be a merging making MWO a true MechWarrior MMORPG.

Edited by Lightfoot, 12 October 2017 - 08:32 PM.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Bud Crue, on 12 October 2017 - 07:45 PM, said:

The premise is that MW5 becomes a PVP due to its single player massive sales success. That potential for multiplayer experience in MW5 has already been hinted at by PGI.

Again, my point is that I do not see them keeping 2 online, PVP formats of essentially the same type of game wherein one is MWO and the other is on a new engine of a new game of their complete and total creation. No way will they keep both if the latter proves to be a basis for success that they can reasonably rely on for future development. No way. If that does occur, they will not put in a ton of programming effort to try and create some sort of MWO to MW5O account port and conversion system. At best you can hope for is some sort of "loyalty" credit or some such thing, but what you have in MWO will be gone no matter what.

We can only wait and see, and have the fun of hoping that PGI can pull this off. If MW5 and its presumed eventual PVP functionality is awe inspiring and god forbid balanced, I won't give a damn about starting over. But that remains to be seen and will be a tall order indeed. I do hope that they manage it however.

MW5 being good enough and popular enough, it would be natural for it to become the platform to become MWO II, or to both merge under MW5 title. I agree on that.

I initially thought it should be staight up conversion to make MW5 as online PvP. But the preview refers to parts of the engine that will be very difficult in online game, stuff like terrain and building destruction. They can be dumbed down or disabled althoughether, but that's all extra work and then it becomes something less than MW5.

[Black Ivan]

I win't hold my breath for MW5. PGI destryoed too much trust into them, no more money from me.

[kesmai]

I hope it succeeds.
I hope for a mwo2 on a new engine.
I hope it will be in the same timeline as MW5M.
I hope those who already have spent a lot in MWO will get a few things at a discount in MWO2.
A few thing like either rebate on owned mechs, or a few mechs for free would be enough.
Everyone who thinks that all possession should carry over is imho a bit dense.

The Thing that will brake or make MW5M will be the AI.
I hope for pgi that they have the means to make an ai that is better than the VIP... If not, the new thing will be the last thing we heard about from pgi.