78 replies to this topic

[Thorn Hallis]

No need for a boycott. Just switch to Clans. Ghost drops are fun and engaging (and rewarding) I heard.

[Kin3ticX]

Thorn Hallis, on 17 October 2017 - 04:47 AM, said:

No need for a boycott. Just switch to Clans. Ghost drops are fun and engaging (and rewarding) I heard.

Heh, we could go back to the 50% cooldown quirk days and feel like we are playing some cheap mod some 12 yr kid made

[Daurock]

Kin3ticX, on 17 October 2017 - 03:56 AM, said:

Clans are better. Most of the stuff the IS got is crap. Its hard to get that alpha up to compete with clans. Yeah its nice to have Lite fusion and ER Med, but the ER med is only 5 damage and the Lite Fusion is still not as good even if its removable. Omnitech is just better. The fixed engines dont matter, there are so many clan mechs now that plenty of them are in the goldy lox zone newayz and the ones with bad engines get mothballed.

A lot of clan omni's even in the goldilocks zone are still hamstrung by having a lot of non-removable equipment, and/or endo/ferro that shouldn't be there. (What I wouldn't give to get rid of a JJ or two and the MASC removed from the sCat, or ferro dropped from the night gyr, for example) It's the reason that clan battlemechs as a class are probably the powerful things in the game, imo.) With the large number of available chassis for each mech, the "Omni" portion of the omni mech is less valuable than it could be too. Sooner or later, PGI is probably going to need to open up the building rules for a lot of omni's if they want them to keep up with the battlemechs. I will give omni's this though - They're usually the most straightforward to outfit, since there is no upgrade path.

Back on topic: I'm in agreement that IS tech is nearly across the board worse than clan tech. I do find it hilarious that they still find the need to keep nerfing IS quirks, (In today's patch, grasshopper) and letting the tech gap correspondingly widen with each patch. If this gap keeps widening, we'll even start to see IS mechs start to disappear from QP.

[Gwahlur]

It's pretty sad how all the merc units flock to the same side, seemingly afraid to have to fight each other and meet some actual competition.
Ofcourse, since IS has an inbuilt disadvantage it would take a mindset that apparently doesnt exist anymore to be the unit that goes IS. Personally, I always gravitate towards joining the underdog as winning then is all that much sweeter, but FW in this game is just so stacked against IS it's not a lot of fun.

I've been pugging for this event, and while the occasional game vs clan pugs can be a lot of fun, the roflstomps makes the experience overall not worth it.

[Lances107]

Going to track down some responses to my post. I may miss some I lost track half way through page three. To the first counter on clans have a limitless resource in firepower. This is highly inaccurate. Heat mechanics, especially ghost heat has highly restricted that resource over time. The devs have gotten allot trickier on some, please note the word some, mechs when released. Example none of the Night Gyrs have enough crit space for a clan ultra ac 20 in the right/left torso. The nova cat is being released where most of its weapons is in the arms. Even the annihilator has a variant with the exact same amount of energy and ballistic spots as the Death Strike Mad cat Mark II. The one P annihilator variant with superior energy spots in the ct. So Its not as wide a gap as it may seem. Some persons are probably saying it best here. The gap is there but its allot smaller then its ever been. Blast in the interest of honesty I am almost forgot the clans do have the greater range advantage. Cant really deny that.

The other argument was if I said what I said is true. Why do people keep going clans? For me MW4/ MW4 Mercs was allot of fun. MW2 I loved playing the clans. So in MWO after the four series I wanted to go back to being a Jade Falcon. Before I started I did no research on what side was op. This was the deciding factor for me. Now you have to take into account a few things here when it comes to why people choose something. First the sheep complex. A bunch of people say something is op, and a new player assumes it must be, and goes for it because they think its the I win button. Even though they have done zero research. The other aspect is how mechs look. In this area the clan is clearly overpowering. Clan mechs have always looked amazing and intimidating as hell. There is some good looking IS mechs but mostly the clan wins out in this area. Lastly the clan has the firepower edge, and people tend to like guns and more guns. The IS has the greater ability to survive. This is all great but its not something you can see/feel in the game. To me these are probably the deciding factors on that point.

As I have already said it comes down to which side the Merc units are going to contract with. Maybe someday this will change, I would love that, It would be a whole new energy to faction war, if loyalist units were the deciding factor.

[Gwahlur]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 17 October 2017 - 03:17 AM, said:

(in advance and to see where I'm coming from. I like fw and I do it a lot. outside of events. on both sides; so try to get my point of view as kinda impartial)

you guys should simply open another (clan) account and you see where your percieved imbalance is coming from for the most part;



on pug vs pug:

when I drop into solo-fw on clanside during an event, there's a lot of rambos out there, doing their own thing, not listening to the rest, gambling victory away everytime for everybody.
but there's also most of the time a few people who hold things together (or try to), who use comms, who work together. teamplayers.


when I drop into solo-fw on IS during an event, there's pretty much the same thing going on - except for those teamplayers. I don't know why, but they are rare on IS-side. maybe some/most don't care anymore, maybe it's the weather - I don't know.

thing is: with that "I'm rambo and eff my team" attitude you just can't win against half-decent teamplay.


(too many?) organised mercs on clanside:

well, totally blaming the unbalanced merc-system here; you can't blame a unit for switching to a 50% bonus and staying there (I'm no merc, but I would too, ofc) - more money -and- having the less troublesome pugs? yes please.

--> go and ask pgi to improve the situation. simply sth like giving mercs for is those 50% and only handing out 10-20% on clanside. or just offering a few slots to be a merc on clanside at all.
(the lore-clanner in me is offended by having mercs in the first time; there simply should not be clanmercs. it's a thing that does not exist in lore).


big, organised groups vs pugs

when I drop on clanside, there's -easily- 6-8 bigger units I can drop with without looking into things, who are good guys you can have a fun time with - and on top of that we win a lot of games.

whenever I drop on IS-side (during events), open up comstar, frr, and all the other ts-servers... it's like a wasteland. maybe there's 1-2 bigger groups going on and that's it.

----> organise yourselves, guys!



-----
again, not judging here - just stating things I see.

think there really needs to be some gate, so -fresh- people who drop in trials don't get into fw-games; they -will- have no fun in those, and drag down their team. even their opponents will feel bad about it. so just ... no.
leave them out of fw, and fw will improve.
and ffs make an "official" tutorial on what's going on in fw; I see so many people shooting gates-not-gens, shooting the cannon etc.. pgi, explain your game better.

also (and that's on a personal note) - in my humble but honest opinion, comms should be mandatory in fw.
yeah, a group of pugs can beat the next one, but not a team. and a group of "good shot"pugs might even threaten a team a bit.
but in all honesty teamplay is what makes and brakes a good fw-drop.
atm, I see too little teamplay on clan-pugs - and next to none on is-pugs.

it's not the tech, it's not the mechs - it's teams vs rambos. teamwins are easy on both sides going against pugs, no matter if your clan or IS.

learn to play as part of a team and have fun - or stay deaf&mute and wait for the solaris mode that's coming up.

While I mostly agree with your post in principle, there's no denying there's a tech imbalance, and that coupled with getting clubbed repeatedly has probably made a lot of people give up FW alltogether.

[Kin3ticX]

Gwahlur, on 17 October 2017 - 06:01 AM, said:

It's pretty sad how all the merc units flock to the same side, seemingly afraid to have to fight each other and meet some actual competition.
Ofcourse, since IS has an inbuilt disadvantage it would take a mindset that apparently doesnt exist anymore to be the unit that goes IS. Personally, I always gravitate towards joining the underdog as winning then is all that much sweeter, but FW in this game is just so stacked against IS it's not a lot of fun.

I've been pugging for this event, and while the occasional game vs clan pugs can be a lot of fun, the roflstomps makes the experience overall not worth it.

Its just more convenient to make Clan dropdecks. Omnitech allows the same build (save for CT hardpoints) with different variants. On the IS side its more likely you will need to own dupe variants which is a big downer for people. This is just 1 factor doe.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Gwahlur, on 17 October 2017 - 06:09 AM, said:

While I mostly agree with your post in principle, there's no denying there's a tech imbalance, and that coupled with getting clubbed repeatedly has probably made a lot of people give up FW alltogether.

playing both sides, I see a lot of things you have on one and desire on the other, so... I won't go there.
but I'll put it this way:
-if- there is an imbalance, it would make a tiny but crucial difference in a very close match, yeah.

but people here complain that they are getting rolled, and that is neither tech/mech-fault.
it's organised teams vs guys who refuse to organise - in a teamgame.

the difference in that is so huge, it's not funny. well.. it kinda is, since all the rambos gotta do is stop trying to make this into a single-player-game, and games would be much closer.
yet many² here (not meaning you, but the broad majority) claim it's "the clans fault", just because they can't accept that they have to change the way they play.

[Gwahlur]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 17 October 2017 - 07:17 AM, said:

playing both sides, I see a lot of things you have on one and desire on the other, so... I won't go there.
but I'll put it this way:
-if- there is an imbalance, it would make a tiny but crucial difference in a very close match, yeah.

but people here complain that they are getting rolled, and that is neither tech/mech-fault.
it's organised teams vs guys who refuse to organise - in a teamgame.

the difference in that is so huge, it's not funny. well.. it kinda is, since all the rambos gotta do is stop trying to make this into a single-player-game, and games would be much closer.
yet many² here (not meaning you, but the broad majority) claim it's "the clans fault", just because they can't accept that they have to change the way they play.

Even if the imbalance was miniscule (which it can't be said that it is), the fact that there's an imbalance means people will go there to gain an advantage, no matter how small.
So, clans having an advantage turns into clan having an even bigger advantage when most players go there.

The people who are getting organized are going to clan to get that upper hand themselves.

It's not rocket science.

[Excalabur50]

Thorn Hallis, on 17 October 2017 - 04:47 AM, said:

No need for a boycott. Just switch to Clans. Ghost drops are fun and engaging (and rewarding) I heard.

And this is the problem saying just switch to clans so then what do you do when you have no one left to fight? Just realized it was sarcastic but really most peoples attitude is just that swap to clan

Edited by Excalabur50, 17 October 2017 - 02:23 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Excalabur50, on 16 October 2017 - 05:07 PM, said:

So it seems the only way to get PGI to listen is to do something extreme, so my suggestion is for IS players to boycott FW and any tournaments until the blinding imbalance with this game is sorted.

Battle for Luthien just like EVERY other tournament is a ROFL stomp in favour of clans. Hell even when battles that in lore are won by the IS it still goes to the clans.

And I think it's time for PGI to stop picking and choosing which parts of the TT lore they use and that which they don't use, it's a game that won't ever translate properly between the two so just make the game with the priority of being FUN FOR EVERYONE.
So IS pilots the only way this will truly be sorted is if we all take a stand and say enough is enough!

It's time to boycott these game modes till it's sorted and please lets try and keep all the discussion on this civil.
Thanks Ex.

So basically your saying that they should nerf the clans so much that the more highly skilled player who tend to prefer playing Clans have to used nerfed into the ground Clan mechs to give IS players enough of an edge to beat them?

I mean it amazes me that no one that complains about FW seems to mention that at the time of the new tech introduction, when everyone and their brother went to the IS side to play with the new toys, because the IS was absolutely dominating that event. Seriously, that even should have forever laid to rest any complain that IS tech was inferior to Clans because obviously the IS can actually dominate FW if the majority of the skilled player base decides to play IS mechs.

Seriously, there isn't a tech imbalance so people really need to stop claiming there is.

[Excalabur50]

Viktor Drake, on 17 October 2017 - 02:36 PM, said:

So basically your saying that they should nerf the clans so much that the more highly skilled player who tend to prefer playing Clans have to used nerfed into the ground Clan mechs to give IS players enough of an edge to beat them?

I mean it amazes me that no one that complains about FW seems to mention that at the time of the new tech introduction, when everyone and their brother went to the IS side to play with the new toys, because the IS was absolutely dominating that event. Seriously, that even should have forever laid to rest any complain that IS tech was inferior to Clans because obviously the IS can actually dominate FW if the majority of the skilled player base decides to play IS mechs.

Seriously, there isn't a tech imbalance so people really need to stop claiming there is.

If there is as you claim no tech imbalance then why does everyone play clan and why does clan always win the tournaments?

[Novakaine]

Seriously though all bullcrap aside.
I don't blame people for playing Clans.
Everyone wants every advantage they can get, and its only fair to use them.
However when the advantages heavily favor one side or the other where's the fun?
Seriously where's the fun?
No one wants to be cannon fodder.
But that's where we are now.
So keep it up chuckle boys and watch those wait match time go up and up.
Until FW finally dies, then maybe PGI will do something.
Although I highly doudbt it.
And one final note Clan puglets are just as bad IS puglets.
Just that clans side has the advantage in tech and high alpha mechs.
The only difference is if their organized or not.

Edited by Novakaine, 17 October 2017 - 03:11 PM.

[Rick T Dangerous]

Gwahlur, on 17 October 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

Even if the imbalance was miniscule (which it can't be said that it is), the fact that there's an imbalance means people will go there to gain an advantage, no matter how small.

The advantage at the moment is 25 tons extra per drop deck, and you are right: people choose to play for that side. They then roll over clan pugs and joke in chat how OP their mechs are (of course you won't see that in the forums, because here IS players keep whining about "clan OP" and all that). But they are also organized and know how to use IS tech. They watch each others backs and don't rambo around. They work together.
I've seen mercs that rolled us when they played IS, but one week later when they fought for the clans they failed miserably. They couldn't handle the tech and were used to IS tech.

Gwahlur, on 17 October 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

So, clans having an advantage turns into clan having an even bigger advantage when most players go there.

Indeed. It's a great advantage to "win planets" by the higher number of ghost drops. But if you get a match, you are likely to get rolled by an organized IS premade.

The people that get into FP on the IS side and get stomped quite often run stuff that doesn't work in FP. And they use "tactics" that have a home in QP, but those tactics fail in FP. But instead of thinking about what they did wrong, they take the easy way and blame it on tech imbalance. That imbalance is supposed to be there, each tech requires a different playstyle. The same way that a light mech and an assault mech require different playstyles.

[Grus]

Excalabur50, on 16 October 2017 - 05:07 PM, said:

So it seems the only way to get PGI to listen is to do something extreme, so my suggestion is for IS players to boycott FW and any tournaments until the blinding imbalance with this game is sorted.

Battle for Luthien just like EVERY other tournament is a ROFL stomp in favour of clans. Hell even when battles that in lore are won by the IS it still goes to the clans.

And I think it's time for PGI to stop picking and choosing which parts of the TT lore they use and that which they don't use, it's a game that won't ever translate properly between the two so just make the game with the priority of being FUN FOR EVERYONE.
So IS pilots the only way this will truly be sorted is if we all take a stand and say enough is enough!

It's time to boycott these game modes till it's sorted and please lets try and keep all the discussion on this civil.
Thanks Ex.

the major inballance is population. I guarantee, if ghost drops didn't count as a win clan would not be as far down as we are.

[SpeedyRR]

The most op part of this game is teamwork, plain and simple. An organised team, with good communication, and organised drop decks has the advantage.
I've played and called on both sides with varying degrees of success and failure. Recognise where strengths are on your side and use them, exploit the weakness in the enemy.
One of the things I've had to learn on IS fp side more so than clan is don't solo drop invasion. Join a group of 8 minimum preferably 10, ideally 12, and have comms. This at least gives you some sort of team synergy and ability to organise drop decks and mechs according to the map/mode. This also reduces the risk of random players messing up the game for you, and also gives you the chance to train up newer players that need to be taught about the mode.
You can all argue about imbalance and tech and so forth, and that's probably not going to change anytime soon.
Work on making the change in your own game play and your choices about fp, and that will help to improve your experience.

[Lily from animove]

SpeedyRR, on 17 October 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

The most op part of this game is teamwork, plain and simple. An organised team, with good communication, and organised drop decks has the advantage.
I've played and called on both sides with varying degrees of success and failure. Recognise where strengths are on your side and use them, exploit the weakness in the enemy.
One of the things I've had to learn on IS fp side more so than clan is don't solo drop invasion. Join a group of 8 minimum preferably 10, ideally 12, and have comms. This at least gives you some sort of team synergy and ability to organise drop decks and mechs according to the map/mode. This also reduces the risk of random players messing up the game for you, and also gives you the chance to train up newer players that need to be taught about the mode.
You can all argue about imbalance and tech and so forth, and that's probably not going to change anytime soon.
Work on making the change in your own game play and your choices about fp, and that will help to improve your experience.

yes it's a snowballing effect on clanside, if you end up with the same 10man group multiple times and you aren't doing too bad you often get ts data and they aks you to join. but some groups generally spread ts data at the beginning to gather everyone they can.

Edited by Lily from animove, 18 October 2017 - 12:08 AM.