123 replies to this topic

[Lux Monolithic]

Clan Heavy Medium - 10dmg, 1 ton, 270m
IS Large Pulse - 10dmg, 7 ton, 365m

This is ridiculous. 7 Tons for the same damage and only slightly more range!? Honestly, how is IS expected to compete at all with that? We all know its alpha strike peeking that dominates this game. IS have limited energy hardpoints and no omnis. I mean this is just blatantly stupid. 7 tons? So my Catapult has to use 21 tons to equal 30dmg where a Clan mech only uses 3 tons? O_O (Has far better cooling, more hardpoints, higher mounted, faster)

I have been playing this game a long time, but I just feel the need to talk about this because its so incredibly stupid. Why would anyone ever play IS? Most of the mechs are just plain inferior, and drastically so.

I am of the opinion that there should at least be a discernable advantage to take IS over Clan, that allows the adaptation of a different playstyle to narrow the gap against Clan.

I enjoy playing both sides, but this is just plain stupid.

Edited by Illuminous Owl, 18 October 2017 - 08:22 AM.

[Battlemaster56]

Umm... you know the ridiculous levels of heat that HML brings right, and the time to cool off after firing it. Did I mention the long cooldown that anyone can take advantage, oh yeah and the long burn duration meaning that your damage is not gonna be in one place all the time and will be taking more shots while you wait for the burn to end.

Seriously HML not even an outlier unlike HLL that found it a safe and snuggle position in the meta in clan laser vomit, and HML is not mucch of a brawling weapon unlike IS LPL as said above that face time you pay for can hurt you more than your opponent, the weapon shines as a surprise weapon hitting a target that blissfully unaware of your existence til you hit it.

[Mole]

I gurauntee you that I can do more damage with 3 LPLs than I can with 3 HMLs simply because of the shorter beam duration and much faster cooldown of the LPLs not even to mention the far more manageable heat. 3 LPLs is a good enough combo to be the primary armament of a 'mech. You try to bring 3 HMLs as the primary armament of a 'mech you're probably going to be a sad panda.

Edited by Mole, 18 October 2017 - 08:12 AM.

[Lux Monolithic]

Battlemaster56, on 18 October 2017 - 08:06 AM, said:

Umm... you know the ridiculous levels of heat that HML brings right, and the time to cool off after firing it. Did I mention the long cooldown that anyone can take advantage, oh yeah and the long burn duration meaning that your damage is not gonna be in one place all the time and will be taking more shots while you wait for the burn to end.

Seriously HML not even an outlier unlike HLL that found it a safe and snuggle position in the meta in clan laser vomit, and HML is not mucch of a brawling weapon unlike IS LPL as said above that face time you pay for can hurt you more than your opponent, the weapon shines as a surprise weapon hitting a target that blissfully unaware of your existence til you hit it.

Yes, I am aware. But I use HML all the time because they are ridiculous. First of all, they are not that hot for an experienced player. Secondly, the cooldown just helps alpha strike peeking because it forces you to cool off. Thirdly, Clans can boat a lot more heatsinks, further increasing the power of the HML. Fourth, it is not difficult for me to keep H-Lasers on target, I play with a relatively low sensitivity, and I wreck people with Heavy Lasers every day.

My Stormcrow has 8 HML, 4 on each side. I fire 4 at a time. Imagine a pinpoint AC 40 and that's what that is. It's not that hot and it just obliterates mechs. It's a better brawling weapon than any ballistics (imo).

Edited by Illuminous Owl, 18 October 2017 - 08:21 AM.

[Lux Monolithic]

Mole, on 18 October 2017 - 08:11 AM, said:

I gurauntee you that I can do more damage with 3 LPLs than I can with 3 HMLs simply because of the shorter beam duration and much faster cooldown of the LPLs not even to mention the far more manageable heat. 3 LPLs is a good enough combo to be the primary armament of a 'mech. You try to bring 3 HMLs as the primary armament of a 'mech you're probably going to be a sad panda.

You never just use 3 HML's. That's the point. As I said, my 55 Ton Stormcrow uses 8. That's 40 on each side. It's not even that hot, for one I boat sinks, for two... the cooldown cools you off. And it really depends on playstyle.

Edited by Illuminous Owl, 20 October 2017 - 08:06 PM.

[Battlemaster56]

So you boat 8 HML on your crow neat. Still I can poke you down if you want to come close and personal, out brawl you with far more superior brawling weapons and keep cool enough through proper heat management, and twist a good chunk of your damage.

And I don't why anyone would peek with HML it drawbacks is too much to be proper poke weapon even std ml can out poke it's heavy counter part, also your andetocal edvidence is still andetocal and at best taken with a grain of salt.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Battlemaster56, on 18 October 2017 - 08:06 AM, said:

Umm... you know the ridiculous levels of heat that HML brings right, and the time to cool off after firing it. Did I mention the long cooldown that anyone can take advantage, oh yeah and the long burn duration meaning that your damage is not gonna be in one place all the time and will be taking more shots while you wait for the burn to end.

Seriously HML not even an outlier unlike HLL that found it a safe and snuggle position in the meta in clan laser vomit, and HML is not mucch of a brawling weapon unlike IS LPL as said above that face time you pay for can hurt you more than your opponent, the weapon shines as a surprise weapon hitting a target that blissfully unaware of your existence til you hit it.

The HML generates 8 heat. Not exactly ridiculous compared to the LPL's 7.25.

[Battlemaster56]

Kaeb Odellas, on 18 October 2017 - 09:37 AM, said:

The HML generates 8 heat. Not exactly ridiculous compared to the LPL's 7.25.

It's basically hot when fighting in near knife fighting range where other weapons are better suited in those ranges.

[Lux Monolithic]

Kaeb Odellas, on 18 October 2017 - 09:37 AM, said:

The HML generates 8 heat. Not exactly ridiculous compared to the LPL's 7.25.

If I'm not mistaken, ghost heat is 4 on HML, 3 on LPL, too.

Battlemaster56, on 18 October 2017 - 09:38 AM, said:

It's basically hot when fighting in near knife fighting range where other weapons are better suited in those ranges.

Which is why you run 8 on a Stormcrow so you can escape at 97/104kph at any moment. And it's still insane. You can unleash 80dmg in a couple seconds.

Firing one side (4 HML), waiting two seconds and firing the other side (4 HML) brings me to 62% heat while moving (on Frozen City) Obviously will be more heat with hotter maps... but I still think it's totally manageable for the sheer firepower.

Edited by Illuminous Owl, 18 October 2017 - 10:01 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

This is a silly comparison, the two weapons don't operate anything alike beyond being hitscan beams.

[Stinger554]

Illuminous Owl, on 18 October 2017 - 09:55 AM, said:

If I'm not mistaken, ghost heat is 4 on HML, 3 on LPL, too.



Which is why you run 8 on a Stormcrow so you can escape at 97/104kph at any moment. And it's still insane. You can unleash 80dmg in a couple seconds.

Firing one side (4 HML), waiting two seconds and firing the other side (4 HML) brings me to 62% heat while moving (on Frozen City) Obviously will be more heat with hotter maps... but I still think it's totally manageable for the sheer firepower.

What's the build specifically because I tried to build it on smurfys and there's like 8 tons left over...

[Lux Monolithic]

Yeonne Greene, on 18 October 2017 - 10:11 AM, said:

This is a silly comparison, the two weapons don't operate anything alike beyond being hitscan beams.

I don't think comparing two laser weapons that do the same damage, have roughly similar range, except one is 1 ton 1 slot and one is 7 tons 2 slots is silly. IS should not have this much of a penalty. It's a huge penalty. 7 Tons... Vs. 1 Ton... For the same damage. I'm not saying HML or HL are OP, I enjoy them very much.

I am saying IS LPL for the same damage is too heavy. IS needs something more efficient. Many IS Mechs have few laser hardpoints, and low ones at that. Just complete disadvantage at every turn. It seems to me a lot of Clan players are just whiners. Again... I enjoy both sides... but it seems like there is a group of Clan players that just want to be unfairly superior for some reason.

Stinger554, on 18 October 2017 - 10:18 AM, said:

What's the build specifically because I tried to build it on smurfys and there's like 8 tons left over...

You are correct... now tell me what the problem is, aside from having a lower tonnage number?

[Kin3ticX]

I get his frustration. IS lasers dont really ad up to any substantial alpha.

But IS has stealth armor so Clans cant even shoot back right? /s

[Helsbane]

But....but...LORE! And TABLETOP and STUFF!!!!

Being shackled to rules for a boxed set from the late 80s is why this game can't be balanced....

[Baba Yogi]

Illuminous Owl, on 18 October 2017 - 07:56 AM, said:

Clan Heavy Medium - 10dmg, 1 ton, 270m
IS Large Pulse - 10dmg, 7 ton, 365m

This quote is a proof that how little you understand how this game works. If i own a lpl against a HvM boat, i'll be agressive and poke & retreat before he barely started his return fire. Short duration weapons are especially great when you take the intiative. Since you will be firing first, so long as you maneuver your exit towards the end of your burn duration (which u can since u had initiated the trade) your enemy will have even less time than your burn duration to return fire. Which means in HvMed's case less than half damage.(probably a third). Also if i have only 1 opponent i do stick around for my cooldowns as i know i can hit him second time before he has his. I do this all the time, especially effective on poptarts.

Edited by Lordhammer, 18 October 2017 - 10:29 AM.

[Stinger554]

Illuminous Owl, on 18 October 2017 - 10:24 AM, said:

I don't think comparing two laser weapons that do the same damage, have roughly similar range, except one is 1 ton 1 slot and one is 7 tons 2 slots is silly. IS should not have this much of a penalty. It's a huge penalty. 7 Tons... Vs. 1 Ton... For the same damage. I'm not saying HML or HL are OP, I enjoy them very much.

I am saying IS LPL for the same damage is too heavy. IS needs something more efficient. Many IS Mechs have few laser hardpoints, and low ones at that. Just complete disadvantage at every turn. It seems to me a lot of Clan players are just whiners. Again... I enjoy both sides... but it seems like there is a group of Clan players that just want to be unfairly superior for some reason.





You are correct... now tell me what the problem is, aside from having a lower tonnage number?

Just making sure that I had that right. No other point just an efficiency thing.

Though you might want to do it on this instead. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...33801989b9f6f2b

Edited by Stinger554, 18 October 2017 - 10:36 AM.

[Lux Monolithic]

Lordhammer, on 18 October 2017 - 10:28 AM, said:

This quote is a proof that how little you understand how this game works. If i own a lpl against a HvM boat, i'll be agressive and poke & retreat before he barely started his return fire. Short duration weapons are especially great when you take the intiative. Since you will be firing first, so long as you maneuver your exit towards the end of your burn duration (which u can since u had initiated the trade) your enemy will have even less time than your burn duration to return fire. Which means in HvMed's case less than half damage.(probably a third). Also if i have only 1 opponent i do stick around for my cooldowns as i know i can hit him second time before he has his. I do this all the time, especially effective on poptarts.

Quoting the exact specifications of weapons from the game is proof I have little understanding of how the game works. GG.

Stinger554, on 18 October 2017 - 10:33 AM, said:

Just making sure that I had that right. No other point just an efficiency thing.

Yep. It's still incredibly efficient, more so than most builds, even with the missing tonnage. Full armor, 80 Firepower... good cooling. Laser AC40.

[MischiefSC]

Mole, on 18 October 2017 - 08:11 AM, said:

I gurauntee you that I can do more damage with 3 LPLs than I can with 3 HMLs simply because of the shorter beam duration and much faster cooldown of the LPLs not even to mention the far more manageable heat. 3 LPLs is a good enough combo to be the primary armament of a 'mech. You try to bring 3 HMLs as the primary armament of a 'mech you're probably going to be a sad panda.

So 21 tons for 3 LPLs. That means you could take 3hmls and 19 extra DHS - more than you can fit. 3HMLs for the same damage is so much more efficient you literally dont need to limit yourself that way, you should take even more weapons and still have way more DHS than the 3LPL version.

It's rarely an issue because the HLL is same range as LPL, 2 tons lighter and CDHS being smaller does 2x the damage and runs cooler. So for the same tonnage as 3 LPLs I can do 2 HLLs, 2HMLs and 9 DHS for 2x the damage and better actual cooling at about the same range. Even with "shorter burn time" (lol) I will still beat you damage/tic.

[Lux Monolithic]

My most simple point: A 1 ton weapon that does 10 damage is ridiculously good. I don't care what the beam duration or cooldown is.

I love Clans and IS equally... but I don't think IS should be so unfairly disadvantaged here, or in the game generally. Clans whip IS in virtually every department, by a high margin. That's a fact. That may be how it is in lore, but it shouldn't be that much of an advantage in MWO.

Edited by Illuminous Owl, 18 October 2017 - 10:57 AM.

[Baba Yogi]

Illuminous Owl, on 18 October 2017 - 10:36 AM, said:

Quoting the exact specifications of weapons from the game is proof I have little understanding of how the game works. GG.

Nah, you thinking only those stats are relevant is the proof. Maybe you should actually read what i wrote last time. It'll open your mind to how pulses are supposed to be used.

Edited by Lordhammer, 18 October 2017 - 11:30 AM.