47 replies to this topic

[Battlemaster56]

Greetings fellow forumites and fledglings of the brown sea, I Archbishop Battlemaster of the First Order have come to you all with a vision of my master's words.

So rejoice as your prayers have been heard!!!! And listen closely to what he've brought to us all from beyond KTown.

Greetings MechWarriors. Today I have a simple question. Did the energy nerfs go far enough?

Many of you saw the proposed changes and loudly yelled at PGI! These changes didn't go far enough! Nerf Energy harder and buff ballistics MORE! GIVE US MORE VELOCITY!
And they looked down upon us and answered "No." They then rolled back some of the nerfs leading to great sadness amongst the ForumWarriors.

However, I have a plan to rectify that and bring happiness back to these forums! So they everyone may rejoice and dance in the streets of River City, celebrating PGIs brilliant vision and strong discipline!

Inner Sphere Ballistics:
AC/2 velocity increased to 2,100 M/s

AC/5 velocity increased to 1,350 M/s

AC/10 velocity increased to 1,300 M/s

AC/20 velocity increased to 800 M/s



Clan Ballistics:
AC/2 velocity increased to 2,200 M/s

AC/5 velocity increased to 1,400 M/s

AC/10 velocity increased to 1,200 M/S

AC/20 velocity increased to 900 M/S
We feel that IS and Clan ballistics only needed a small change to their velocity, except the AC/10 which was running a bit hotter than we intended in internal testing. We have corrected this by increasing the velocity of AC/10 more than other Autocannons. LBX are fine with their extra crit chance.


Inner Sphere Energy:
Small Laser heat increased to 2.

Small Laser damage reduced to 3.
Medium Laser heat increased to 4.

Medium Laser cooldown increased to 5 seconds.

Large Laser heat increased to 8.25

Large Laser cooldown increased to 6.25 seconds.

ER Small Lasers are fine.
ER Medium Laser cooldown increased to 8 seconds.
ER Large Laser cooldown increased to 7.45 seconds.

ER Large Laser optimal range reduced to 600 M

ER Large Laser maxiumum range reduced to 950.



Clan Energy:
Clan lasers are fine and don't need to be nerfed...

...yet.



We feel that... do any of you actually read this portion or do you just see the numbers and immediately respond with outrage?
The above is a list of my proposed changes to ballistic and energy weapons. I hope that many of you will share this with PGI, tweeting Russ about them, in the hopes that they can share in our own, small brilliance and implement these changes immediately!


Our great Supreme Leader have spoken!!!

You may praise it, fear it does not matter as he have finally chosen to speak to us once more!!!!


Edit: Small edits to remove {Redacted} from the text.

Edited by Battlemaster56, 22 October 2017 - 08:44 AM.

[Bombast]

Interesting question - It's against the CoC to get someone to post for you when suspended/banned. But is it against the CoC to post something for the suspended/banned? Is it just the puppeteer at fault, or the puppet as well?

No reason I'm asking in this thread, of course...

[Angel of Annihilation]

The ironic part of this is that the most powerful builds in the game are all Ballistic builds so not sure why lasers needed a nerf in order to improve ballistics.

[Vonbach]

Welcome to clan warrior online.

[Trissila]

I really don't understand a desire to buff the velocity on ACs. If you have trouble landing shots inside the effective range of ACs with the current velocities, a buff is not going to help you.

[Deathlike]

Vonbach, on 22 October 2017 - 08:31 AM, said:

Welcome to clan warrior online.

It's more like #balancebyterribadClanners.

Secret Balance Meeting Somewhere in Vancouver said:

If a Clan mech isn't the #1 option for every role, the IS must be nerfed.

Whether or not you believe it, people with a clue will continue the pick what makes the most sense based on the information they have. IS Medium Lasers have not really been considered OP... it's just a general utility thing. Nerfing them only demonstrates how weapons like the IS Large Laser (let alone the IS Small Laser) are in a poor position (and ironically something PGI isn't noticing).

Edited by Deathlike, 22 October 2017 - 08:40 AM.

[MischiefSC]

I recommend that all Clan mechs and tech be reverted to tabletop stats -

Which is to say 1/2 armor they currently have and all weapons have a flat 10 second cooldown.

[Vonbach]

Trissila, on 22 October 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

I really don't understand a desire to buff the velocity on ACs. If you have trouble landing shots inside the effective range of ACs with the current velocities, a buff is not going to help you.

IS AC/10s needed the buff. It was as a very awkward velocity for
its range and very hard to hit with because of it. UAC/10s were
nice because despite the heat you could actually hit thing with them.

[Bombast]

MischiefSC, on 22 October 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

I recommend that all Clan mechs and tech be reverted to tabletop stats -

Which is to say 1/2 armor they currently have and all weapons have a flat 10 second cooldown.

At that point, Medium Lasers would be OP, and worth nerfing.

[nehebkau]

Most people recognize that the T1/2 and CW game has simply become who can put more lazors on which mech and avoid ghost heat. Possibly, but I don't believe it, PGI is recognizing that weapon diversity is decreasing and trying to deal with it. It is an unfortunate side affect of PGI not asking itself simple questions like "Are 12 energy spots on a mech a good idea? Are 4 high mount energy weapon spots with 10 free crit zones a good idea?"
Adjusting AC values won't add to diversity -- just make it a bit easier for people to adjust to them. The simpleness of the AC / lazor question comes down to : when given the question, do I spend 8 tons to get 5 damage or 1 ton -- the answer is quite simple.

As I said 4 years ago, following the BT cannon, in this game, just spawns a ton of issues because BT battle and MWO battle are completely different. Since randomness on hits is out of the question -- real heat system would have to be implemented (which most COD players would hate)

Edited by nehebkau, 22 October 2017 - 08:48 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Viktor Drake, on 22 October 2017 - 08:30 AM, said:

The ironic part of this is that the most powerful builds in the game are all Ballistic builds so not sure why lasers needed a nerf in order to improve ballistics.

Uh, no?

The only ballistic builds tearing it up are UAC/2 boats and Gauss-Vomit. The former are actually rather niche and get hosed if ranges are closed and the latter is just the Clans, and only a few 'Mechs are doing that (MC II, DWF, the occasional MAD-IIC and KDK).

[Y E O N N E]

Deathlike, on 22 October 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

Whether or not you believe it, people with a clue will continue the pick what makes the most sense based on the information they have. IS Medium Lasers have not really been considered OP... it's just a general utility thing. Nerfing them only demonstrates how weapons like the IS Large Laser (let alone the IS Small Laser) are in a poor position (and ironically something PGI isn't noticing).

TBQH, I don't think the LL is in that terrible of a position. That 1 heat reduction from the ERLL is a small but notable advantage if your build is meant for mid-range poke and I use it all of the time for that reason, since the IS don't have the heat capacity to spare for 3 more points of heat running three ERLL on top of the heat being generated by the five or six ERML.

It's essentially the IS equivalent to the cLPL and it operates the same way in the same bracket, where the isERLL is actually in its own bracket since it doesn't have the range to match cERLL but it has more range than any of the other lasers it could compare against. The isLPL is also in its own class, and honestly mediocre for alpha-strike builds except that, if you've got the hardpoints, they sometimes let you cram in more heatsinks since two and an ERML is 1 less slot than three LL and colder-running for 2 less damage.

All I would say is that the standard LL could probably use a 10% buff to range. Any more, and it starts stepping on the toes of the ERLL. If the ERLL also gets a buff to range, we can push it a little more.

[davoodoo]

Deathlike, on 22 October 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

It's more like #balancebyterribadClanners.

when medium nerf hit clanners more than is.

no sorry, its just 4d chess.

Edited by davoodoo, 22 October 2017 - 09:04 AM.

[El Bandito]

Viktor Drake, on 22 October 2017 - 08:30 AM, said:

The ironic part of this is that the most powerful builds in the game are all Ballistic builds.

No, it is not. All ballistics are not as good as las-vomit. Damage up front triumphs over sustain in any decent level of play, thanks to peekaboo meta.

Edited by El Bandito, 22 October 2017 - 09:10 AM.

[Deathlike]

davoodoo, on 22 October 2017 - 09:04 AM, said:

when medium nerf hit clanners more than is.

The thing is though, Clan Laservomit has been stronger than IS as a whole, compared to the niche value the IS has in their version of laser vomit. Whether in the form of the alpha, DPS, range... Clan laservomit is better than people are actually willing to acknowledge (especially back with CSPL so a thing for all sort of short ranged brawling).

It's really people not understanding how to maximize these things are why IS Medium Lasers apparently have to suffer.

[davoodoo]

Yeonne Greene, on 22 October 2017 - 08:56 AM, said:

Uh, no?

The only ballistic builds tearing it up are UAC/2 boats and Gauss-Vomit. The former are actually rather niche and get hosed if ranges are closed and the latter is just the Clans, and only a few 'Mechs are doing that (MC II, DWF, the occasional MAD-IIC and KDK).

Only ac2/uac2 ive seen were riflemans and blackjacks

On the other hand i see relatively high number of lb10x which is rather scary concept to figure out.

Deathlike, on 22 October 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

The thing is though, Clan Laservomit has been stronger than IS as a whole, compared to the niche value the IS has in their version of laser vomit. Whether in the form of the alpha, DPS, range... Clan laservomit is better than people are actually willing to acknowledge (especially back with CSPL so a thing for all sort of short ranged brawling).

It's really people not understanding how to maximize these things are why IS Medium Lasers apparently have to suffer.

Sure, but all it did was making clans swap to pulses which werent nerfed. Nerfing some mechs while not getting rid of mad2c and supernova. So out of 3 biggest offenders of clan laservomit only ebj got a nerf.

Top tier untouched with 1 exception, meh mechs nerfed.

On the other hand is still got maulers and cyclops, what got nerfed? battlemaster, anyone seen one??

Edited by davoodoo, 22 October 2017 - 09:16 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

davoodoo, on 22 October 2017 - 09:04 AM, said:

when medium nerf hit clanners more than is.

no sorry, its just 4d chess.

It didn't?

Both Clan and IS ERML took a 14% reduction to their DPS. The Clan DPS was and still is higher. The IS version was already underperforming.

On top of that, the cMPL got its [inadvertent] nerf rolled back, so now the standard MedLas (which also got nerfed) is even more out of its league against it than it was before. Hell, so is the IS ERML, which has barely any more range than that cMPL and has worse everything else.

davoodoo, on 22 October 2017 - 09:10 AM, said:

Only ac2/uac2 ive seen were riflemans and blackjacks

On the other hand i see relatively high number of lb10x which is rather scary concept to figure out.

I've seen a lot of UAC/2 MX90s and DWFs, and I've been running them in the NSR-9J and NSR-10P; it's probably one of the better builds to put on that chassis. The Mauler is one of the comp-worthy 'Mechs and even shows up in MWOWC17.

[El Bandito]

davoodoo, on 22 October 2017 - 09:13 AM, said:

Only ac2/uac2 ive seen were riflemans and blackjacks

On the other hand i see relatively high number of lb10x which is rather scary concept to figure out.

LBX10s are mediocre. Unless it is 1v1 duel, no one should be concerned with those.

[davoodoo]

Yeonne Greene, on 22 October 2017 - 09:13 AM, said:

It didn't?

Both Clan and IS ERML took a 14% reduction to their DPS. The Clan DPS was and still is higher. The IS version was already underperforming.

On top of that, the cMPL got its [inadvertent] nerf rolled back, so now the standard MedLas (which also got nerfed) is even more out of its league against it than it was before. Hell, so is the IS ERML, which has barely any more range than that cMPL and has worse everything else.

Is vomit was more reliant on 3 lpl, while clan vomit had 6 mediums or pulses as staple.
So is dropped from 13.48 dps to 12.68 while clan vomit dropped from 14.12 to 12.92
6% vs 8.5%

Edited by davoodoo, 22 October 2017 - 09:21 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

davoodoo, on 22 October 2017 - 09:17 AM, said:

Is vomit was more reliant on 3 lpl, while clan vomit had 6 mediums or pulses as staple.

IS haven't been using 3 LPL for a long time, it's not worth the weight and XL risk for 3 points of damage. And the heat generated from combining it with ERML stops you from using its shorter cool-down anyway.

The LL is a dramatically more efficient weapon.