28 replies to this topic

[arcana75]

Wanna read up on the algorithm. Lately been seeing many T1 players in my game, eg Darktrazz, Teer Kerensky, Koniving, etc.

[El Bandito]

Latest patchnote regarding MM only stated that players can now only be matched with/against players with one tier difference, if the MM value is not loosened after waiting for some time. Dunno how loose the MM becomes if it can't build two teams.

8v8 can't come soon enough.

Edited by El Bandito, 23 October 2017 - 04:48 AM.

[A Shoddy Rental Mech]

https://mwomercs.com...ng-restrictions

[Snowhawk]

ha ha.... matchmaker is working as intended....

[arcana75]

The Nerf Bat, on 23 October 2017 - 04:47 AM, said:

https://mwomercs.com...ng-restrictions

Thank you kind sir!

Quote

Yesterday morning (PDT) we tightened the matchmaking rules for the Quick Play Solo Queue. With those changes, players are now currently only being matched against other players up to a maximum of one PSR Tier outside of their own (in both directions, when applicable). Whenever possible, the system will still attempt to match players within their specific Tier. It is only when wait times reach a certain duration that the system loosens up to check for players a single Tier beyond your own.
The new matching tolerances are listed below.

Tier Matches with
1: 1,2
2: 1,2,3
3: 2,3,4
4: 3,4,5
5: 4,5

These tighter matchmaking restrictions will help to improve per-match balance, but this improvement comes at a cost; wait times, particularly outside of peak hours, may see an increase by up to a minute or more.

We would like to stress that this is not necessarily a permanent change. We realize the balance between wait times and match quality is a delicate one, and will be closely monitoring the matchmaking system and adjusting its rules as needed.

We'd also like to take this opportunity to reiterate that the Matchmaking Status window - shown when hovering over the Quick Play button - conveys the percentage of players currently in the Matchmaking Queue for each Weight Class. If you wish to expedite your potential wait times we recommend using a 'Mech from a Weight Class with the lowest percentage value in the Matchmaking Status panel.

Emphasis mine.

So there's no lockout period where say after 5 minutes of waiting the tier lock loosens up: it's a hard tiering so I can only be matched with Tiers 3, 4 or 5. I googled that but it was an older post from the site but couldn't find the more recent one.

How would a grouped team with a mixed group of tiered players hitting QP affect the MM tier-wise?

I definitely got into games with T1 players, and have video proof, with the names I mentioned above and probably more. So MM is not working as intended.

Edited by arcana75, 23 October 2017 - 04:57 AM.

[Verilligo]

Some of the people you mentioned aren't actually Tier 1. Kon, I believe, is Tier 4. But it's possible the MM could, in some instances, match you with two tiers away as it used to do. I'm not sure if they definitively said that it's now fully restricted to only one tier in either direction. Still, as a T4, you definitely shouldn't see any T1 players outside of Group Queue or FW.

[arcana75]

Verilligo, on 23 October 2017 - 05:09 AM, said:

Some of the people you mentioned aren't actually Tier 1. Kon, I believe, is Tier 4. But it's possible the MM could, in some instances, match you with two tiers away as it used to do. I'm not sure if they definitively said that it's now fully restricted to only one tier in either direction. Still, as a T4, you definitely shouldn't see any T1 players outside of Group Queue or FW.

Solo QP for me...

[Willard Phule]

It makes sense.

First, it puts a T1 into the queue and matches a T2 on the other team. Since there's a T2, now it can add a T3. Once there's a T3, then it can add a T4 and so on. So, basically, you can end up with T1s and T5s in the same match and it's doing exactly what it's supposed to do.

[arcana75]

Willard Phule, on 23 October 2017 - 06:18 AM, said:

It makes sense.

First, it puts a T1 into the queue and matches a T2 on the other team. Since there's a T2, now it can add a T3. Once there's a T3, then it can add a T4 and so on. So, basically, you can end up with T1s and T5s in the same match and it's doing exactly what it's supposed to do.

Interesting way to MM. I thought it would be more like "This is a Tier 5 game, let's fill it with T4 and T5 players", rather than "Hi I'm T5, who wants to join me".

[FunkyT]

I understood it this way:

The matchmaker looks for +-1 tier around what it's supposed to look around for, so for example a T4 match can be filled with T5 and T3 players.
But at the same time, if the queue is dominated by T3 players, they can fill up with players from both the T2 and T4 pool. So you can effectively still be matched with players 2 tiers higher / lower than yourself, which may explain your situation somewhat.
Of course, I can be wrong about this.

Other than that, you shouldn't (in theory) be matched with anything outside of a +-2 range of your own rating, as long as the matchmaker doesn't loosen up like it used to.

For Group Queue, I think it's "come first, serve first". Can't really imagine how they would try to balance groups of completely mixed ratings.

[Lily from animove]

Verilligo, on 23 October 2017 - 05:09 AM, said:

Some of the people you mentioned aren't actually Tier 1. Kon, I believe, is Tier 4. But it's possible the MM could, in some instances, match you with two tiers away as it used to do. I'm not sure if they definitively said that it's now fully restricted to only one tier in either direction. Still, as a T4, you definitely shouldn't see any T1 players outside of Group Queue or FW.

it is said it is restricted, read again.

the MM tries to match you ONLY with your own tier. but after a certain amount of time it opens up to a lower level.

Willard Phule, on 23 October 2017 - 06:18 AM, said:

It makes sense.

First, it puts a T1 into the queue and matches a T2 on the other team. Since there's a T2, now it can add a T3. Once there's a T3, then it can add a T4 and so on. So, basically, you can end up with T1s and T5s in the same match and it's doing exactly what it's supposed to do.

according to the desctiption this cannot happen, because it is restricted to one tier below, which means as soon as a T1 and a T2 are matched a t3 cannot be matched into it as it violates the terms of a T1 not allowed to meet a T3

FunkyT, on 24 October 2017 - 12:08 AM, said:

I understood it this way:

The matchmaker looks for +-1 tier around what it's supposed to look around for, so for example a T4 match can be filled with T5 and T3 players.
But at the same time, if the queue is dominated by T3 players, they can fill up with players from both the T2 and T4 pool. So you can effectively still be matched with players 2 tiers higher / lower than yourself, which may explain your situation somewhat.
Of course, I can be wrong about this.

Other than that, you shouldn't (in theory) be matched with anything outside of a +-2 range of your own rating, as long as the matchmaker doesn't loosen up like it used to.

For Group Queue, I think it's "come first, serve first". Can't really imagine how they would try to balance groups of completely mixed ratings.

when the matchmaker allows only one tier below a T4 match cannot include T3 AND T5. it will either be T3+T4 or T4+T5 but never T3 + T4+ T5.

otherwise the patchnotes description would logically be wrong.

Edited by Lily from animove, 24 October 2017 - 01:18 AM.

[FunkyT]

As I said, I can't be sure.

But I think I remember some chatter in a Twitch streamers chat, shortly after this matchmaker change went life. On Baraduls channel, some of his viewers asked for his tier rating. Reason behind it was, that they were matched with or against him in solo QP, while they were T3, with him being T1 ever since he started streaming.

So if this can happen, something along those lines needs to be possible in the tightened matchmaker, I guess.

[arcana75]

If you google this topic, some of the old chatter does mention that after 4.5minutes, the MM loosens up to include other tiers. But in the Sept 2017 patch notes it does not indicate this timer-based loosening, implying that there is no such loosening.

Unless somehow, certain servers have different patches statuses?? I noticed my pings will vary consistently within the same region, 20ms variance, suggesting that servers from one region can be in 2 different geographical locations. This seems to be the case for NA and EU servers, not OC. So if there are separate servers, it's quite possible a poor patching methodology within PGI could have resulted in inconsistent patching across servers, resulting in the current messy situation now with seemingly random hitreg, FW drop deck and MM issues.

[ForceUser]

The MM is consistently adjusted automatically as the pool of available players change throughout the day. Ideally in a perfect world with enough players at all times you will only ever drop into a match with players of the same tier as you.

However in the real world they need to balance between wait times and match making. It's all fine saying the match maker should only ever match you with people of the same tier as you however if the wait time is too long people will close the game and play something else.

The exact time it takes for the match maker to loosen the restrictions on tiering is not known and is probably dynamically changed depending on time of day (automatically) or from month to month (manually). The aim is to get as good a match as possible within a specified time. That means that yes, eventually, with a low enough population, T5 players could see T1 players on occasion. But we're talking waiting like 5+ minutes for a match during off peak times.

Your best chance at the best balanced matches is to enable all 3 servers (or at least EU/NA) so you are in as large a possible pool of potential players. Additionally play mechs in the tonnage bracket that has the lowest population. The match maker tries to match 3 of each weight class on each team or at the least tries to have similar number of mechs of each weight class on either side on top of the skill match making.

Group queue does not have tonnage matching, only skill matching based off of the average tier of each group. There are no tier limitations (for obvious reasons) in group queue the MM only tries to have the average tier on each side be roughly equal.

Another thing to keep in mind is that while we only see a single tier number form 1 to 5, the actual value the match maker uses is much more granular and I believe it has a range of 4500 points(or something in that region) This was explained/discussed a long time ago in a Town Hall. When the match maker tries to balance the teams it uses this value to make sure the average value is as close as possible between two teams. The MM also uses this value in group queue.

Lastly it is possible to get a match relatively quickly but still end up in a match with a very wide spread of tiers. The reason for this is because the MM has been trying to put together a match for many minutes and only needed one more person. So it will grab the very next person the queues up (you). This usually happens in low pop periods.

In the end the MM can not do the impossible, it can not give you matches in 10 seconds with only people in your own tier if those people do no t exist.

[arcana75]

Let's just make one thing crystal clear. I'm not directing this at anyone in particular.

The point of my question is not to debate MM and how it should be done, but rather what is happening exactly, and what should be happening exactly.

If the patch notes say 1 thing, and the actual situation is another, then something is broken and thus I will create a patch feedback post for PGI/bug support to look into it (hopefully).

But if it's not, then fine.

The key point here is that the patch notes make no mention of loosening the forced tier matchup, in this case a Tier 4 player is matched only with Tiers 3/4/5 and never with 1/2, and in previous versions of the MM algorithm, there was a loosening algorithm past 4.5 minutes of waiting.

There either is a loosening, or not. It cannot be both.

[ForceUser]

Quote

There either is a loosening, or not. It cannot be both.

Loosening of the match making restrictions is dependent on player population and has been in the game and part of the match maker since it's inception. It is something that will never ever go away and I thought I had explained why that was as thoroughly as possible. Just because the most recent patch notes does not mention it does not mean it's been removed.

There will *always* be pressure valves in match makers. If those do not exist you will end up with situations where matches will never start because there isn't 24 of the exact right tier players searching for matches at that specific time. If the players have to wait too long they will stop queuing meaning a match will never ever start. The patch notes indicate the ideal, what is aimed for by the match maker but if it can not create a match in a specified time then it *will* grab people form other tiers as it's primary job, and the whole point of the game, is to start matches.

[C E Dwyer]

arcana75, on 23 October 2017 - 04:38 AM, said:

Wanna read up on the algorithm. Lately been seeing many T1 players in my game, eg Darktrazz, Teer Kerensky, Koniving, etc.

Koni isn't T1 AFAIK he is good enough to be, but doesn't play the game often enough to move the X.P bar.

The tightening of the tiers 12-18 months ago, would have seen the desired improvement in match balance, however.

Situation normal, P.G.I put the piss poor P.S.R in place with it's upward bias, and now the high tiers are filled with people that don't deserve to be there.

I'm one of those people I simply should not be in T1 I rate myself in the T2 catagory I am above average however I lack the ability to throw up 400 plus damage, and 300 match scores game after game, like the genuinely good players do.

[Lily from animove]

FunkyT, on 24 October 2017 - 01:53 AM, said:

As I said, I can't be sure.

But I think I remember some chatter in a Twitch streamers chat, shortly after this matchmaker change went life. On Baraduls channel, some of his viewers asked for his tier rating. Reason behind it was, that they were matched with or against him in solo QP, while they were T3, with him being T1 ever since he started streaming.

So if this can happen, something along those lines needs to be possible in the tightened matchmaker, I guess.

we would ned some proof for this to know if that happens, people talk a lot about T's and sometiems are just wrong, or may have switched between a tier unrecognised.

Edited by Lily from animove, 24 October 2017 - 04:37 AM.

[Asym]

arcana75, on 23 October 2017 - 04:56 AM, said:

Thank you kind sir!




Emphasis mine.

So there's no lockout period where say after 5 minutes of waiting the tier lock loosens up: it's a hard tiering so I can only be matched with Tiers 3, 4 or 5. I googled that but it was an older post from the site but couldn't find the more recent one.

How would a grouped team with a mixed group of tiered players hitting QP affect the MM tier-wise?

I definitely got into games with T1 players, and have video proof, with the names I mentioned above and probably more. So MM is not working as intended.

You're right.
I'm a tier 2 and have seen T4's and 5's in QP matches; and, I was curious the other day and starting asking people what tier they were because I recognized a few names.......2 and 3 level differences. The T1's, is there a way in the stats to confirm tiers, almost never answer if asked?

[ForceUser]

Asym, on 24 October 2017 - 04:54 AM, said:

You're right.
I'm a tier 2 and have seen T4's and 5's in QP matches; and, I was curious the other day and starting asking people what tier they were because I recognized a few names.......2 and 3 level differences. The T1's, is there a way in the stats to confirm tiers, almost never answer if asked?

The only way to confirm what Tier someone is is if they enabled it in their profile on the forums. There is for example no way for me to confirm what tier you are. You can say you're tier 1 or tier 2 but I will have no way of knowing if you're lying or not. So always take what anyone says with a pinch of salt unless you can verify what tier they are.