181 replies to this topic

[arcana75]

Yeah it's the 31st Century and it's all sci-fi and what not, and the whole mech thing is pretty much sci-fi bs, and there's alot of unrealistic things in BT to choose from, but out of all of it, what's the most unrealistic thing for you in BT/MW?

For me, it's seeing a 75 ton giant robot lift off the ground with small jets. Every time I see a Timber Wolf do this, it breaks my suspension of disbelief. More so than other stuff like all the complex moving parts surviving huge barrages, all the hidden ammo and how leg ammo can actually feed to shoulder mounted weaponry even in chicken walkers, etc.

What's yours?

[xVLFBERHxT]

Lights

Edited by xVLFBERHxT, 24 October 2017 - 03:39 AM.

[Paigan]

The jets are a good point.
Also:
- How ridiculously bad the weapon tech is compared to ours today. Range, weight, power. Loss of tech can't explain that because Clans didn't have lost tech and yet their tech is ultra crappy, too.
- Having human pilots.
- Mechs themselves.

Basically everything. It's "cool" if you don't think about it, but if you do, it's pure ridiculousness.

Edited by Paigan, 25 October 2017 - 12:08 AM.

[El Bandito]

The Great Houses. I really do not think humanity will regress to feudal system again, unless nuclear wars wipe the slate clean.

[Bud Crue]

Proportionality. Things like putting a 7 ton weapon on a machine that weighs 20 tons including that weapon, but that weapon is still relatively tiny looking. Worst offender is 2 ppcs on a black jack. But that sort of thing just sticks out to me.

[LordNothing]

Paigan, on 24 October 2017 - 03:40 AM, said:

The jets are a good point.

not to anyone who plays kerbal space program or is familiar to irl-equivalent space tech. i really appreciate the fact that the battletech universe uses torch ships for most of the space operations.

you can do some stupid powerful engines that can send tons of metal skyward. whether you could get the weight down of the engine and fuel enough where it would match the tech descriptions are debatable. also as to how these engines automagically refuel themselves between uses is a mystery.

i think the most unrealistic thing is actually ground pressure. you couldn't use a battlemech on anything but the hardest surfaces without having them sinking to the point where it would really slow them down.

another thing would be the effectiveness of the armor. irl weaponry is already so powerful that most armor is useless. i mean it might stop an rpg in an asymetrical warfare scenario. there is a reason why these are the only kinds of wars anyone fights anymore. its utterly stupid to carry out the kind of warfare we had in ww2. the kind between mostly equally matched foes.

another thing that always irks me is the fact that there arent more blind people in the battletech universe. you can get a laser pointer now that you cant use without eye protection, the kinds of lasers that can melt metal from range could probibly also blind everyone for miles within a narrow arc about the gun. they must have some impressive ophthalmologists.

[Paigan]

LordNothing, on 24 October 2017 - 04:14 AM, said:

[...]
you can do some stupid powerful engines that can send tons of metal skyward. whether you could get the weight down of the engine and fuel enough where it would match the tech descriptions are debatable. also as to how these engines automagically refuel themselves between uses is a mystery.
[...]

Well, yeah.

I think in that direction myself, sometimes: the jets themselves MIGHT be okay, 1-8 tons for a 20-100 ton Mech. But where is the fuel? For me "jumpjets" would imply the thrusters PLUS the fuel. Maybe even structural enhancements, etc.
And that's where I'm pretty sure that a couple of tons won't cut it.
IF they did, via some special break-through technology, it would be even worse: if it was so "easy" to generate that kind of thrust, why build Mechs in the first place and not some big a$$ hovering/flying gunship?

In short: just the thrusters might be okay, but the JJ concept as a whole is beyond hilarious.

Edited by Paigan, 24 October 2017 - 04:24 AM.

[LordNothing]

El Bandito, on 24 October 2017 - 03:40 AM, said:

The Great Houses. I really do not think humanity will regress to feudal system again, unless nuclear wars wipe the slate clean.

it kind of makes sense that large space faring civilizations occupying multiple planets separated by light years to operate somewhat feudally or perhaps a confederacy of sorts as any type of real time governance would be impossible. of course it doesnt make much sense in the btverse as they have effectively near instant travel and communications (the command circuits at least). dune kind of also has this problem as its foldspace travel is even faster, but they kind of get around this issue by giving the spacing guild a monopoly on space travel thus creating a political environment that facilitates fudalism. comstar kind of fills that role at least for communications and through manipulation of same create ground for fudalism.

assuming no ftl (big investment short hop generational ships using orion drive, with colonization taking place over thousands of years, each new civilization seeding one or two colonies) or slow ftl (alcubierre drives), it could be said that the distances would be far enough where every solar system could effectively have its own government without too much threat from the others. if another attempted an invasion you may know about it years in advance and have much time to prepare. if this happens a lot then it might not be too infeasable to have a feudal-like agreement between nearby star systems for mutual defence, sort of like an interstellar nato.

Edited by LordNothing, 24 October 2017 - 04:32 AM.

[Bombast]

ComStar. They are way too nice for a Telecom company.

LordNothing, on 24 October 2017 - 04:31 AM, said:

of course it doesnt make much sense in the btverse as they have effectively near instant travel and communications (the command circuits at least).

Command Circuits still take weeks to go from one place to another, and their usage is prohibited by the economics of the Inner Sphere - Hell, the economic cost is one of the reasons why Liao is still around post 4th Succession War.

Edited by Bombast, 24 October 2017 - 04:35 AM.

[LordNothing]

also space dramamine. its really powerfull in the future. the jarring motion of a walking mech has got to really take its toll on its the human body, forget about the heat issues.

[Bombast]

LordNothing, on 24 October 2017 - 04:36 AM, said:

also space dramamine. its really powerfull in the future. the jarring motion of a walking mech has got to really take its toll on its the human body, forget about the heat issues.

Those massive helmets probably help. Hard to be nauseous with all the blood squeezed out of your brain.

[Asym]

As said earlier, distances are compressed for weapons....
1000 meters is nothing; and, even today, we're talking 5000 meters and beyond and we aren't a space traveling civilization.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

Bombast, on 24 October 2017 - 04:40 AM, said:

Those massive helmets probably help. Hard to be nauseous with all the blood squeezed out of your brain.

Is this...

I can't tell if I'm seeing an Urbie with a face, or a pilot wearing an urbie costume.

Probably both. Make that also an Urbanmech cockpit.

Urbie-ception?!

[Lily from animove]

Asym, on 24 October 2017 - 04:49 AM, said:

As said earlier, distances are compressed for weapons....
1000 meters is nothing; and, even today, we're talking 5000 meters and beyond and we aren't a space traveling civilization.

"Hey lets make a TT with realistic scaled weapon ranges."
"Sorry I don't think people have 50m long tables"

[visionGT4]

Asym, on 24 October 2017 - 04:49 AM, said:

As said earlier, distances are compressed for weapons....
1000 meters is nothing; and, even today, we're talking 5000 meters and beyond and we aren't a space traveling civilization.

The way i rationalise the lack of sensor performance (and thus weapon performance) in the BT world is to assume all operations are conducted under heavy EW conditions.

[Karl Streiger]

Lily from animove, on 24 October 2017 - 05:45 AM, said:

"Hey lets make a TT with realistic scaled weapon ranges."
"Sorry I don't think people have 50m long tables"

Thx - at least one person seem to have a clue

for me it is the lightweight ablative armor - and the mount of multiple weapons of a kind - why to mount 3 of a kind when you could have a 1 with the power of 3?

But hey its a game designed in the 80s for pen&paper - not the fault of the game when a computer company can't do better.

[Bombast]

visionGT4, on 24 October 2017 - 05:51 AM, said:

The way i rationalise the lack of sensor performance (and thus weapon performance) in the BT world is to assume all operations are conducted under heavy EW conditions.

That's exactly how Battletech justifies it - Every single combat unit engages in Electronic Warfare, and it makes the 'modern' battlefield a colossal mess no one can see through. Basically every Battlemech, tank and aerospace fighter has a rudimentary ECM unit by default.

[Wolfways]

The most unrealistic thing in MWO to me is that somehow nearly every battle takes place in a small area that looks suspiciously like it was purposely built for mechs to fight in and not a real place...

[Bombast]

Wolfways, on 24 October 2017 - 06:05 AM, said:

The most unrealistic thing in MWO to me is that somehow nearly every battle takes place in a small area that looks suspiciously like it was purposely built for mechs to fight in and not a real place...

Oh yah, the maps. HPG Relays - Lostech of the highest order. Universally respected by every faction. Even a Liaoist wouldn't dream of intentionally damaging one.

Lets drop 24 mechs on top of one and have them duke it out.

[Paigan]

Lily from animove, on 24 October 2017 - 05:45 AM, said:

"Hey lets make a TT with realistic scaled weapon ranges."
"Sorry I don't think people have 50m long tables"

That is nonsense.
They just would have had to use 100 m hexes instead of 30 m hexes. The hexes are already tactically abstracted. Why not just use a proper scale?

Edited by Paigan, 24 October 2017 - 06:26 AM.