181 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

Has the private sector completely replaced standard military forces in the future?

the reason for focusing on mercs is because it adds the element of resource management to the game

resource management outside of the game is a big part of mechwarrior, one that PGI complete dropped the ball on with MWO. MWO has no logistics minigame where you have to manage limited resources for your unit.

faction warfare shouldve included elements from the mechwarrior mercs games to make it feel like youre running a merc company.

they couldve done something similar for loyalist players too, but instead of having to transact everything with cbills, it couldve been with loyalty points.

Edited by Khobai, 29 October 2017 - 06:51 PM.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Eh, I don't think mechs in general isn't so far fetched as in terms of military applications. Basically everything that mankind has ever touched has become weaponized in some form or another. A good example was the whole design concept of the M2 Bradley (which I do actually like the design, but apparently it was a clusterf*ck of bad ideas). I think when anti-gravity applications become more mainstream, it might be a feasible solution to the weight tonnage problem and terrain issue. But again aerial combat vehicles might be a better solution once we have that technology in the public.

Keep in mind that the military has funded really stupid project ideas in the past, and with the right contract and bid I would say anything is possible. Mechs in military applications may not seem that all far fetched.

To answer OP's question I think the most unrealistic thing about battletech are the weapon ranges. I understand why they did it for balancing reasons, but it still doesn't change the fact that it's absurd.

[Bombast]

FupDup, on 29 October 2017 - 06:42 PM, said:

Has the private sector completely replaced standard military forces in the future? People are speculating about that in present day but that has yet to come. Has BT predicted the future?

Battletech has mercs to a) give players a lot of RP and gameplay options, and c) to allow for lore characters to have a lot of self agency, while not making every Inner Sphere army fall into the 'Star Fleet Trap,' where captains, official representatives of a government, use planet destroying ships of mass destruction for their own personal use.

I don't think it's meant to be predictive.

Edited by Bombast, 29 October 2017 - 07:11 PM.

[FupDup]

Bombast, on 29 October 2017 - 07:11 PM, said:

Battletech has mercs to a) give players a lot of RP and gameplay options, and c) to allow for lore characters to have a lot of self agency, while not making every Inner Sphere army fall into the 'Star Fleet Trap,' where captains, official representatives of a government, use planet destroying ships of mass destruction for their own personal use.

I don't think it's meant to be predictive.

You skipped straight from bullet point A to C.

What is bullet point B, I must know!

[Bombast]

FupDup, on 29 October 2017 - 07:12 PM, said:

You skipped straight from bullet point A to C.

What is bullet point B, I must know!

Bullet point b does this.

[FupDup]

Bombast, on 29 October 2017 - 07:14 PM, said:

Bullet point b does this.

Using numbers instead of letters is an easy way around that...although it's still annoying regardless.

[Khobai]

Bombast, on 29 October 2017 - 07:11 PM, said:

Battletech has mercs to a) give players a lot of RP and gameplay options, and c) to allow for lore characters to have a lot of self agency, while not making every Inner Sphere army fall into the 'Star Fleet Trap,' where captains, official representatives of a government, use planet destroying ships of mass destruction for their own personal use.

I don't think it's meant to be predictive.

1) yeah for battletech/mechwarrior rpg mercs made the most sense because it gave players the freedom to do pretty much whatever they wanted. if you owned your own dropship and company of mechs you could basically fight whoever you wanted in the innersphere or even claim your own planet in the periphery.

3) the purpose of mercs in the mechwarrior games was to add logistics/resource management to the game and have the player manage a small company of mechs. mercenaries just made the most sense for that.'

C) why is starfleet blowing up planets? and why is the new startrek so dumb as !@#$ with its mushroom bullsh*t?

[Bombast]

Khobai, on 29 October 2017 - 07:46 PM, said:

C) why is starfleet blowing up planets?

They aren't, but they can. Seriously, with the exception of the original Enterprise, all the 'main' star ships in Star Trek are pretty much Death Stars. And they're put in the hands of captains who are basically given free reign to do whatever they like. Like the episode where Picard's archaeologist friend dies under mysterious circumstances, and he blows off a bunch of important tasks and uses the Enterprise like its the freak'n Mystery Machine.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

no Guided Missles ..Weaponranges like Infantrywepons and of the Other Side ...Interstellar Navigation and Aerospacefighters

pilots thats fight in Infantryranges with 12m Tall machines and not can aim and hit this big Targets in TT

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 29 October 2017 - 08:05 PM.

[Bombast]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 29 October 2017 - 08:01 PM, said:

no Guided Missles

LRMs, SRMs and Streaks are guided, as are several other weapon systems. In fact, the only missile system I can think of at the moment that are explicitly not guided are MRMs. NARC may or may not have a guidance system.

[Zergling]

There's a whole heap of unrealistic things in BT/MWO... but the thing that annoys me the most is volume; mechs simply don't have the internal volume to hold all their ammunition and other equipment.


Eg, the image Khobai posted demonstrates this:

Khobai, on 24 October 2017 - 07:15 AM, said:

Each ton of LRM ammo is 120 missiles... how the hell is the Timber Wolf supposed to hold 240 missiles? Or what about designs that have several times as much LRM ammo?

Basically, the mechs simply aren't big enough... but at the same time, they are actually too light for their size. They just aren't even remotely realistic on a basic physical level.

Edited by Zergling, 29 October 2017 - 08:12 PM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Bombast, on 29 October 2017 - 08:05 PM, said:

LRMs, SRMs and Streaks are guided, as are several other weapon systems. In fact, the only missile system I can think of at the moment that are explicitly not guided are MRMs. NARC may or may not have a guidance system.

yes a little Guided to 1000m Range thats more like Dogfight Rockets
in the Pic above ...Who the Myromer Muscles ?

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 29 October 2017 - 08:21 PM.

[Bombast]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 29 October 2017 - 08:20 PM, said:

in the Pic above ...Who the Myromer Muscles ?

Myomer muscles are muscle like fibers, the sci-fi equivalent for some experimental tech we've been messing with for decades. Due to its strength to weight ratio, and the nature of battlemechs, they've largely replaced things like hydraulics.

[Shard Phoenix]

Khobai, on 24 October 2017 - 07:15 AM, said:

makes sense to me

Out of the many things to be "bugged" about when it comes to lack of realism in BT/MW, the ammo storage has always been the elephant I have a hard time ignoring. This picture is the perfect way to sum it up. Just no way for 'Mechs to actually carry the silly ammo loads we see.

[Cizjut]

Even though BT lore has really cool explanations on the mechs as why are they roughly human shaped (because pilot neural adjusting) and myomers and what not, I still find the designs of some of them plainly stupid even in-game lore and rules of engagement. Like the Direwolf whole shape, size and concept: I'm pretty sure that the point of using a battlemech is to be nimble (in game magic science and relativity) and precise, by having appendices like arms that the pilots can manipulate. The Direwolf is a heavy big *** box profile without anything that could make sense and a top speed of 55-60KMPH or so.

But the worst thing to see and I have to endure are the stupid STUPID hands/fists placed in mechs like the Shadowcat. It's ******* bananas and lolworthy. Like WHY does that mech has a tiny stump without elbows or joints but somehow someone placed a humanoid hand besides the cockpit? It makes no sense. It looks like an actual joke and an edit.

You know we see the humanoid ones and we assume or know they're mechs refitted for battle. Some of them have arms and hands but they're fixed in position because (some ******** explanation like lock S-Foils in attack position) and OK, that's fine, I can get behind that. But the Shadowcat? Come on why.

I know it's not the only mech either that has these but can't remember which one. Even if the original designs had some goofy stuff I know PGI can do better and change those things into something more passable.

[UnofficialOperator]

Athom83, on 24 October 2017 - 05:40 PM, said:

Starlite also just became lost to us when the chemist (who never shared his formula) died a few years ago.

First time I heard of this. What a waste

[Shifty McSwift]

Cizjut, on 29 October 2017 - 11:20 PM, said:

Even though BT lore has really cool explanations on the mechs as why are they roughly human shaped (because pilot neural adjusting) and myomers and what not, I still find the designs of some of them plainly stupid even in-game lore and rules of engagement. Like the Direwolf whole shape, size and concept: I'm pretty sure that the point of using a battlemech is to be nimble (in game magic science and relativity) and precise, by having appendices like arms that the pilots can manipulate. The Direwolf is a heavy big *** box profile without anything that could make sense and a top speed of 55-60KMPH or so.

But the worst thing to see and I have to endure are the stupid STUPID hands/fists placed in mechs like the Shadowcat. It's ******* bananas and lolworthy. Like WHY does that mech has a tiny stump without elbows or joints but somehow someone placed a humanoid hand besides the cockpit? It makes no sense. It looks like an actual joke and an edit.

You know we see the humanoid ones and we assume or know they're mechs refitted for battle. Some of them have arms and hands but they're fixed in position because (some ******** explanation like lock S-Foils in attack position) and OK, that's fine, I can get behind that. But the Shadowcat? Come on why.

I know it's not the only mech either that has these but can't remember which one. Even if the original designs had some goofy stuff I know PGI can do better and change those things into something more passable.

Yeah that's a good point too, the bigger they get the less sense it makes in a number of ways for the kind of combat they are bound to.

Again it just makes me think of that idea of mechwarriors as mechminers instead, could be an interesting sort of game in itself, basically the same kind of group vs group drop, but you represent some corporation that drops mining bots on planets to chew resources, and you constantly come into conflict with other corporations doing the same.

Could be an interesting sort of balance between battle and objective in there. Also makes for a poignant laugh.

[LordNothing]

Bombast, on 29 October 2017 - 08:24 PM, said:

Myomer muscles are muscle like fibers, the sci-fi equivalent for some experimental tech we've been messing with for decades. Due to its strength to weight ratio, and the nature of battlemechs, they've largely replaced things like hydraulics.

its pretty much nitinol on speed.

and with a fusion reactor.

Edited by LordNothing, 30 October 2017 - 04:55 AM.

[davoodoo]

Khobai, on 29 October 2017 - 06:45 PM, said:

the reason for focusing on mercs is because it adds the element of resource management to the game

I would say its rather not to pigeonhole players in specific mechs and doctrines.

Imagine if you had to follow zellbrigen if you play clans.

[Bombast]

davoodoo, on 30 October 2017 - 08:48 AM, said:

Imagine if you had to follow zellbrigen if you play clans.

They may have been almost balanced!