113 replies to this topic

[Kin3ticX]

Mechs with MASC available for cbills:

PHX-3S: Hardpoint starved to death. 3xLarge Laser pretty much all there is to consider. 3xLarge Laser prevents using a large engine. Paying a heavy price just to have MASC on this mech. Gibs hardpoints plz. Not like these are dominating MWOWC or anything.

SHCs: Good mech, not uber comp but a solid solo queue mech. Pretty much the definitive MASC mech and the JJs make it even funner. Last year I ran 2xLPL and a token 3xMG for the lulz and lately I run 2xHLL & an ERML for a decent midrange 43 alpha. People also run 2xHLL w/ MGs or 2xERPPC and theres more. Very fun, a good reference point for how MASC should work.

WVR-7D: Total crap hardpoints. A mechlab headache. Wtf is this even

Cataphract-3L: Again, a mech where the MASC just isnt really worth it. Might as well just run more weapon tonnage on a 1X. The Cataphracts in general are not making any waves. Innerphere in general has a firepower problem and trying to fit MASC gets in the way.

EXEs - I like this mech more than Gargoyles but thats not saying a whole lot. I find I am fighting these arm mounts as much as I fight the enemy in this mech. There are 3 energy torso mounts to shop for but the YAW limit is punishing. Still like driving a bus even with MASC. All factors together...not fun.


I'd like to see.

1. More mechs with MASC. Like 5 mechs with MASC out of hundreds of variants makes them really rare.
2. Maybe some MASC skills on the skill tree.
3. Maybe a small buff to the JJ vectoring skills. I consider investing the points but its just not worth it to touch the JJ tree ever right now.
4. Make adjustments to mechs that get screwed by horribad TRO stock hardpoints.
(quirks do not count as hardpoints)

Edited by Kin3ticX, 20 May 2018 - 08:33 AM.

[El Bandito]

Kin3ticX, on 25 October 2017 - 04:35 AM, said:

WVR-7D: Total crap hardpoints. A mechlab headache. Wtf is this even

Not crap anymore thanks to new tech. UAC10 version works with 40% jam reduction, and MRM60 version is also very good with its missile quirks--as long as we are not comparing it to Clan mechs. The question is whether MASC is truly worth 3 tons for that mech.

Edited by El Bandito, 25 October 2017 - 07:05 PM.

[Paigan]

I can only speak for the SHC and the EXE, but for them, I agree 100% with Kin3ticX.
EXE was "kind of good" when it had the agility of a medium Mech and was a little smaller (you know: armor of an assault, weapons of a heavy, agility of a medium. That was something), but now: meh. A MAD-IIC is better almost everywhere.

IMHO, ECM should be made weaker (e.g. no radius, as it would be normal according to lore. The ECM with radius is a different, much bigger item) and then JJs, ECM and MASC should be available for all or at least most Mechs and variants with some having bonuses to them.

Edited by Paigan, 25 October 2017 - 04:53 AM.

[Kin3ticX]

El Bandito, on 25 October 2017 - 04:39 AM, said:

Not crap anymore thanks to new tech. UAC10 version works with 40% jam reduction, and MRM60 version is also very good with its missile quirks--as long as we are not comparing it to Clan mechs. The question is whether MASC is truly worth 3 tons for that mech.

If I use a UAC10 then I probably wont bother with the MASC. At that point might as well use the Dragon because 3 hardpoints is better to roll with that kind of quirk. There is a serious lack of design around that wolverine.

[ice trey]

On the one hand, mechs that come canon with MASC should always have a MASC hardpoint. Same can be said with ECM, or AMS, or whatever. Taking that away is not cool, and was one of my biggest gripes with the Mechwarrior 4 games.

On the other hand, there are a lot of underperforming mechs out there that could use a little love, and PGI has already made a number of mechs that don't canonically carry ECM (Atlas D-DC, one of the Commandos, etc) to have an ECM hardpoint, likewise mechs canonically with no AMS systems to have two of them. Of course, I'd argue that it'd probably be better to make ECM more available to the underperforming chassis, especially ones traditionally Capellan, since they're well known for their ECM love, I could see more than a few designs benefiting from being able to mount MASC, as well.

[El Bandito]

Kin3ticX, on 25 October 2017 - 04:53 AM, said:

If I use a UAC10 then I probably wont bother with the MASC. At that point might as well use the Dragon because 3 hardpoints is better to roll with that kind of quirk. There is a serious lack of design around that wolverine.

Dragon-5N is a sniper with 3xUAC2s. Wolverine-7D is a skirmisher with bigger burst using UAC10, augmented by SRMs.

ice trey, on 25 October 2017 - 05:02 AM, said:

On the other hand, there are a lot of underperforming mechs out there that could use a little love, and PGI has already made a number of mechs that don't canonically carry ECM (Atlas D-DC, one of the Commandos, etc) to have an ECM hardpoint, likewise mechs canonically with no AMS systems to have two of them. Of course, I'd argue that it'd probably be better to make ECM more available to the underperforming chassis, especially ones traditionally Capellan, since they're well known for their ECM love, I could see more than a few designs benefiting from being able to mount MASC, as well.

I'd love to have a MASC using Cyclops, or Battlemaster.

Edited by El Bandito, 25 October 2017 - 06:01 AM.

[Paigan]

El Bandito, on 25 October 2017 - 05:57 AM, said:

Dragon-5N is a sniper with 3xUAC2s. Wolverine-7D is a skirmisher with bigger burst using UAC10, augmented by SRMs.
[...]

Interesting.

Both mechs are very similar.
Kin3ticX said he'd rather take the Dragon over the Wolverine.
You say the Dragon is a sniper and the Wolverine is a skirmisher (what's a skirmisher? Do you mean brawler?). On which base? For such a general statement, it must be more than just personal preference. You imply that it MUST be that way.

Besides:
There is no such thing as a ballistic sniper. I see it every day when I shoot ERLLs at people at >1000 meter and they clumsily fire their AC bullets back at me.
- you waste ammo on the reduced falloff damage (lasers do not)
- you hit the terrain a lot (lasers do not quite as often)
- your target is most of the time long gone by the time the bullets reach the targetted spot.
The range quirk doesn't fix that.
There are no ballistic snipers. Only clumsy people with ballistics who waste ammo at long range.

[Athom83]

Kin3ticX, on 25 October 2017 - 04:53 AM, said:

If I use a UAC10 then I probably wont bother with the MASC. At that point might as well use the Dragon because 3 hardpoints is better to roll with that kind of quirk. There is a serious lack of design around that wolverine.

If you're using a UAC/10 with 3 hardpoints... what are you using in those other 2?

Paigan, on 25 October 2017 - 06:13 AM, said:

Kin3ticX said he'd rather take the Dragon over the Wolverine.
You say the Dragon is a sniper and the Wolverine is a skirmisher (what's a skirmisher? Do you mean brawler?). On which base? For such a general statement, it must be more than just personal preference. You imply that it MUST be that way.

With the Wolverine, you poke them on the nose (pretty hard), then pull back and move to another location to poke again. Its really good at that with most builds.

Paigan, on 25 October 2017 - 06:13 AM, said:

Besides:
There is no such thing as a ballistic sniper. I see it every day when I shoot ERLLs at people at >1000 meter and they clumsily fire their AC bullets back at me.
- you waste ammo on the reduced falloff damage (lasers do not)
- you hit the terrain a lot (lasers do not quite as often)
- your target is most of the time long gone by the time the bullets reach the targetted spot.
The range quirk doesn't fix that.
There are no ballistic snipers. Only clumsy people with ballistics who waste ammo at long range.

My Blackjack with 2 UAC/2s disagree with you. I am really good at placing shots on target at range because of my experience with War Thunder. Yes, it isn't pinpoint, but you can still do a lot.

[El Bandito]

Paigan, on 25 October 2017 - 06:13 AM, said:

Interesting.

Both mechs are very similar.
Kin3ticX said he'd rather take the Dragon over the Wolverine.
You say the Dragon is a sniper and the Wolverine is a skirmisher (what's a skirmisher? Do you mean brawler?). On which base? For such a general statement, it must be more than just personal preference. You imply that it MUST be that way.

Besides:
There is no such thing as a ballistic sniper. I see it every day when I shoot ERLLs at people at >1000 meter and they clumsily fire their AC bullets back at me.
- you waste ammo on the reduced falloff damage (lasers do not)
- you hit the terrain a lot (lasers do not quite as often)
- your target is most of the time long gone by the time the bullets reach the targetted spot.
The range quirk doesn't fix that.
There are no ballistic snipers. Only clumsy people with ballistics who waste ammo at long range.

Skirmisher is the type of mech that uses its mobility to get in, shoot its load, and get out. It's different type of fighter than brawler mech, which sticks with the enemy target and stays there until one of them dies.

You can snipe with AC2 family. 800 meters is considered snipe range. DRG-5N's velocity quirk + velocity skill tree means the shells will be traveling at 2600 m/s, which makes it very accurate even at 800 meter range, as it reaches the target in 0.3 second.

Edited by El Bandito, 25 October 2017 - 06:24 AM.

[TheArisen]

I'm totlly in favor of getting more MASC variants in game. If Pgi released some like they did with the Griffin 2N I'd buy it.

[Myke Pantera]

The Flea agrees
Edit: So do I

Edited by Myke Pantera, 25 October 2017 - 06:45 AM.

[Mr Snrub]

El Bandito, on 25 October 2017 - 04:39 AM, said:

Not crap anymore thanks to new tech. UAC10 version works with 40% jam reduction, and MRM60 version is also very good with its missile quirks--as long as we are not comparing it to Clan mechs. The question is whether MASC is truly worth 3 tons for that mech.

Smurfy says it's only UAC5 with 40% jam reduction.

Can't check ingame right now.

[El Bandito]

Mr Snrub, on 25 October 2017 - 06:50 AM, said:

Smurfy says it's only UAC5 with 40% jam reduction.

Can't check ingame right now.

Yes, you are correct. Disregard my UAC10 comment. MRMs are still good choice though.

[TheHurp]

i'd like to dust off my spirit bear but it's masc is little more than useless

RIP spirit bear. my spirit will bear yours until it's no longer needed.

[Bombast]

The Men Shen has MASC. To me, that means the answer is to release Inner Sphere omnimechs. And if you're going to do that, may as well include the Sunder and Raptor.

Edited by Bombast, 25 October 2017 - 07:20 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

The Executioner had a 10degree torso yaw range quirk prior to the de-sync, and never made it back in. So we are left with the torso yaw range of the Marauder-IIC and tbe Mauler. I don't understand why nobody sees a problem with this. The mech needs to rely on repeated application of firepower to justify being an assault, but that 70 degree yaw range really gets in the way.

To the OP, you can get 4 torso hardpoints now. Im running 2 HLL and 6ERML on mine and it does okay... would really like to see it with more torso yaw though!!

[Bombast]

Gas Guzzler, on 25 October 2017 - 09:03 AM, said:

The Executioner had a 10degree torso yaw range quirk prior to the de-sync, and never made it back in. So we are left with the torso yaw range of the Marauder-IIC and tbe Mauler. I don't understand why nobody sees a problem with this. The mech needs to rely on repeated application of firepower to justify being an assault, but that 70 degree yaw range really gets in the way.

Probably because no one runs Executioners, and thus no one notices.

[Khobai]

MASC needs to not make the reticle shake, it doesnt have an accuracy penalty in tabletop if you only use it for 1 turn which is 10 seconds in MWO, which is all most people keep it engaged for anyway because they dont want to damage their legs. MASC might be useful then without the reticle shake.

ECM also needs to not grant stealth

PGI needs to stop making equipment do things its not supposed to

Edited by Khobai, 25 October 2017 - 09:19 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

El Bandito, on 25 October 2017 - 07:02 AM, said:

Yes, you are correct. Disregard my UAC10 comment. MRMs are still good choice though.

You don't use MRMs with MASC though, because your tonnage is generally pretty much devoted to stacking as many MRMs as possible and just hammering things because MRMs aren't hot enough to justify burst play. The Shadow Cat is still the best harasser, shoot a couple of times with high burst energy weapons and run away while you are cooling down.

In other words, MASC and mid-extreme range energy weapons make great skirmishers. Ballistics definitely don't (because of tonnage requirements) and some missiles are on the edge (ATMs would be the one thing that makes sense).

Let's also be a bit more distinguishing of the role definitions:

• A skirmisher is something that hit and fades, which is basically how laser vomit HBK-IIC-As are used. They skirt the edges of battle because of their brittleness and lack of sustained damage (focusing more on making the most of the times they do expose with massive firepower) and use their above average speed to reposition faster than most heavies/assaults.
  
• A harasser is a longer range hit and run type of mech that use range and speed to hit from angles you wouldn't otherwise be in with a skirmisher. The Shadow Cat is pretty the definition of this.
  
• A striker is pretty much the short range version of the harasser, the Assassin is this just like the Oxide was before it. You dive for isolated mechs or flanks and obliterate them. Though honestly you don't need to run away after this but if there was a mech that can wolf pack effectively it is these kinds of mechs.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 25 October 2017 - 09:28 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Bombast, on 25 October 2017 - 09:07 AM, said:

Probably because no one runs Executioners, and thus no one notices.

But I thought PGI balances based on usage. If no one uses Executioners, shouldn't they be buffed? I don't understand, none of it makes sense!!!!

Once every few weeks I take one out and do 800-1000 damage, is that just completely decimating the averages???

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 25 October 2017 - 09:23 AM.