69 replies to this topic

[Vxheous]

Skill tree takes all of a minute to set up on a mech. In the time that people have posted here whining about "skill tree", you could've skilled out 3 mechs.

Edited by Vxheous, 27 October 2017 - 01:32 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Vxheous, on 27 October 2017 - 01:31 PM, said:

Skill tree takes all of a minute to set up on a mech. In the time that people have posted here whining about "skill tree", you could've skilled out 3 mechs.

1 at best * 300 mechs = 5 hours of skilling out mechs whereas before I could just level it up and go without modules and be at least somewhat competent and not missing out on some serious performance. Having to skill mechs that you don't normally use has killed my desire to collect things because why collect them if I can't just level them and be done with them outside of maybe a few modules if they become worth putting them on (since most of the performance you needed outside seismic was in the skills).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 27 October 2017 - 01:41 PM.

[Vxheous]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 27 October 2017 - 01:40 PM, said:

1 at best * 300 mechs = 5 hours of skilling out mechs whereas before I could just level it up and go without modules and be at least somewhat competent and not missing out on some serious performance. Having to skill mechs that you don't normally use has killed my desire to collect things because why collect them if I can't just level them and be done with them outside of maybe a few modules if they become worth putting them on (since most of the performance you needed outside seismic was in the skills).

5 hrs spread over the time since skill tree was released is nothing. I only skilled a mech when I wanted to play it. By now, my 200 mechs are all mostly skilled, give or take a few that I'll never play again. My point still stands though, in the time it takes to complain about it here, that same person could already level out 1-3 mechs, depending on how much ranting they're doing.

Edited by Vxheous, 27 October 2017 - 01:47 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Vxheous, on 27 October 2017 - 01:43 PM, said:

5 hrs spread over the time since skill tree was released is nothing. I only skilled a mech when I wanted to play it. By now, my 200 mechs are all mostly skilled, give or take a few that I'll never play again. My point still stands though, in the time it takes to complain about it here, that same person could already level out 1-3 mechs, depending on how much ranting they're doing.

That's still 5 hrs I shouldn't have to spend, as far as I can tell it didn't add anything significant to the game other than be yet another annoying tax that forces me to spend time not actually playing the game.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 27 October 2017 - 02:07 PM.

[Kanil]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 27 October 2017 - 02:02 PM, said:

That's still 5 hrs I shouldn't have to spend, as far as I can tell it didn't add anything significant to the game other than be yet another annoying tax that forces me to spend time not actually playing the game.

They removed the rule of 3 in the process, though. I'd much rather spend 5 hours skilling up all my 'mechs than ~2 hours getting basic on two variants I don't ever intend to play... every time I want to master a new 'mech. That ends up being more than 5 hours very quickly.

[Christophe Ivanov]

As I have said in the past, the skill tree is not perfect and is a one-size-fits-all type which is it's failing. The skill tree should have been tailored for each specific Mech if not the Mech class. Doing so would garner more usefulness out of it and not waste time, money and grief re-doing things.

[Thorqemada]

The Skilltree takes hours to get familiar with it and that only if you already have some experience with the game.
For every other Player it is a Convoluted Mess that makes the game not more complex but more complicated!
As NPE it is outright horrible!

[DAYLEET]

gooddragon2, on 26 October 2017 - 01:39 PM, said:

how the skill system isn't nice,

ITs, arguably, the best part of the game. The previous "skill" system was as dumb as pointless. Zero customisation, just a waiting phase till your mech didnt suck.

gooddragon2, on 26 October 2017 - 01:39 PM, said:

and how things should be closer to the lore.

Id love to have written lore in game and to some extent maybe a few mechanic. BUT lore as far as game balancing goes tend to be really REALLY ******. I really dont know what the original writers where smoking but most of the lore ive heard on the forum made no logical sense.

gooddragon2, on 26 October 2017 - 01:39 PM, said:

i feel lucky to have joined the game now balance wise.

You have no idea. Its so much easyer to be a newbie now and the game is more balance then it ever was since the introduction of the clan, if you can believe that.

Edited by DAYLEET, 27 October 2017 - 04:44 PM.

[TLBFestus]

Skill tree = death of flagging interest in game due to simple lack of interest in re-specing of all my mechs.

[Requiemking]

DAYLEET, on 27 October 2017 - 04:42 PM, said:

You have no idea. Its so much easyer to be a newbie now and the game is more balance then it ever was since the introduction of the clan, if you can believe that.

No it's not. If anything, the game is the most slanted towards the Clans it has ever been. The best balanced the game has ever been was the two month period between April 2016 and June 2016. Both sides were relatively equal at the time. Clans had just gotten their first truly useful assault mech in the form of the Kodiak, and the IS's metagod, the Black Knight, was the subject of the first(and so far only) intelligent balancing nerf.

[FupDup]

Requiemking, on 27 October 2017 - 08:42 PM, said:

No it's not. If anything, the game is the most slanted towards the Clans it has ever been. The best balanced the game has ever been was the two month period between April 2016 and June 2016. Both sides were relatively equal at the time. Clans had just gotten their first truly useful assault mech in the form of the Kodiak, and the IS's metagod, the Black Knight, was the subject of the first(and so far only) intelligent balancing nerf.

The most Clan-slanted time was Clan launch, when most of the stuff wasn't nerfed in any way (e.g. 450m 5 heat CERML) and there was no such thing as quirks.

Also, Kodiak as the first useful Clan assault? For starters the KDK was just plain overpowered, at least for the KDK-3 variant. Additionally, you must've missed the time when the Dire Whale was the king of the class.

Edited by FupDup, 27 October 2017 - 09:59 PM.

[DAYLEET]

Requiemking, on 27 October 2017 - 08:42 PM, said:

No it's not. If anything, the game is the most slanted towards the Clans it has ever been. The best balanced the game has ever been was the two month period between April 2016 and June 2016. Both sides were relatively equal at the time. Clans had just gotten their first truly useful assault mech in the form of the Kodiak, and the IS's metagod, the Black Knight, was the subject of the first(and so far only) intelligent balancing nerf.

The Clan heavies and assault arent near as scary and dominating as they have been before. Not even close.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Kanil, on 27 October 2017 - 03:58 PM, said:

They removed the rule of 3 in the process, though.

They could've easily removed the rule of 3 with the old skill tree. That's a red herring.

[davoodoo]

Skill tree is just same chore as previously but now requires you to shill out on top of grinding xp

Ghost heat on the hand is just ridiculous.
Bought marauder2c, thought on the build for a variant, but wait uac10 is only 4 crits, lets drop xl into std and put 3 uac10 there, ghost heat says **** you, now im running 2 gauss 2 hll instead... this mech begs for 4 erll and gauss.

Edited by davoodoo, 27 October 2017 - 10:48 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

They could've easily removed the rule of 3 with the old skill tree. That's a red herring.

they also couldve expanded upon the old module system and the result wouldve been much better than the current skill tree

if all the quirks/skills were turned into modules and all the modules seperated into categories like attack/defense/mobility/support/utility/etc... then each mech couldve had a varying number of module slots for each category based on its intended role. it wouldve made every mech truly different instead of having them all share the same boring generic skill tree.

one of the biggest problems the game has now is the mech bloat and the fact theres so many mechs that are just too similar or outright inferior to other mechs. a revamped module system easily couldve solved that.

Edited by Khobai, 27 October 2017 - 11:31 PM.

[Mr Snrub]

Since this is a Skilltree discussion now, here are my two cents:

Swapping modules - and remembering where they are... - was a major annoyance.

The 'rule of three' thing was far more stupid than the skilltree (and yes, you have to see it as a direct replacement because PGI needs the C-Bill sink), I still remember I nearly stopped playing when I had to rebuy a mech I sold when I thought I wouldn't need it anymore.

You can customize a mech now as you like make an assault more agile, a light more tanky etc, which is an undeniable improvement above the old, one size fits all upgrade system.

I agree that it can be overwhelming for a newbie, but it's not as - misleading? - as before.

[Shifty McSwift]

Mr Snrub, on 28 October 2017 - 01:51 AM, said:

Since this is a Skilltree discussion now, here are my two cents:

Swapping modules - and remembering where they are... - was a major annoyance.

The 'rule of three' thing was far more stupid than the skilltree (and yes, you have to see it as a direct replacement because PGI needs the C-Bill sink), I still remember I nearly stopped playing when I had to rebuy a mech I sold when I thought I wouldn't need it anymore.

You can customize a mech now as you like make an assault more agile, a light more tanky etc, which is an undeniable improvement above the old, one size fits all upgrade system.

I agree that it can be overwhelming for a newbie, but it's not as - misleading? - as before.

It's totally not, but people do tend to turn topics to their own ends like that, the topic is basically; "hey I don't really mind these balancing mechanisms I just started playing with", and the response is; "game is dying because of skill tree" in some cases. It is illogical to say the least.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

KodiakGW, on 27 October 2017 - 05:40 AM, said:

Ultimate Online
Guild Wars
World of Warcraft
Defiance (which is what they should have made it like)
Dungeons and Dragons Online
Age of Conan
...just to name a few.

And since when is this an RPG game? According to the first page of the game manual...
“A tactical, 'Mech-based online shooter set in the rich BattleTech Universe”

ONLINE SHOOTER

The RPG element of it is player born by those that form teams/join factions and play it out as such.



But, but...you just said it was a fine change! Shouldn’t have that made you want to play the game more? I mean, from all the posts you make anytime someone dares to question it, the Skill Web was the best change ‘evah!!!!

Yep, year over year numbers dropping. But, what did you say in another thread?



So, game has run it’s course..even though MW5 just got a write up that should bring players back or gain interest from ones who never played before, like OP. Yet, player numbers are still dropping.

If you think MWO has run it’s course, and are playing less, than maybe you should be the one to stop crying every time someone calls into question something that many have said is the reason why they are playing less.

to your first point: Mechwarrior was originally "Mechwarrior: The Battletech RPG " it was a book, actually, here have a picture:

But we like to forget this fact... before Mechwarrior was a video game, it was an RPG system, RPG elements, have always been within the games, just never to the point it's been added to MWO.

Yes, MWO is a "SHOOTER" have you played a modern shooter in the past, I don't know, decade? Every single AAA shooter, has some form of RPG-esque leveling/skill mechanic. From CoD's progression systems,t o Battlefields.... with the exception of stuff like ArmA... hell even the newest DOOM had unlockable skill nodes and weapon progression trees!

2)My playtime has decreased more due to balance changes than the skill tree... again, I can take five minutes out of my play session [less even] to skill out a mech, because I know the nodes I want for a given role, and I take those, i don't sit around and hem and haw over what I'm going to take, I know I want most of the survival tree, some of the operations tree, and a good bit of weapons tree based on my loadout. Simple as that...

no my reasons for decreased playtime, has been things like light MG boats that wait until you're stripped of armor, then crit out all of your weapons, or the pure, insane amounts of LL vomit. Lack of Cone of Fire mechanics that should have been in since day 1... ect. And are not direct reaction to the skill tree, which I actively enjoy having as an addition over the old pilot tree nodes [convergence node required much?]

3) MWO is 5 years old... that's half a decade, that's literally, half the time the franchise was dead... of a pure, PVP based, mech experience. That's fairly impressive for a pure PVP game's run. 5 years, for a non-community driven, non-player run game. It's really impressive, especially given it's niche. Battletech fans, are hardcore when it comes to stuff like this. However, even I, as a long time battletech/mechwarrior fan, can see when things are running thin, and MWO, despite having relatively solid core gameplay... has little to offer. The slow release of new maps, the stagnant gameplay and meta... it's not conducive to the game's playerbase or enviornment, and it's turned a LOT of people off over the years.

So yeah, I think MWO has run it's course, and you can complain all you want, but you're also on a PUBLIC forum, which means anyone can call you out if they so choose. I will happily, state my opinion, just as you have stated yours.

[Tordin]

Once you got a hang on how to spec your variants and configs of mechs, fine tuning them is just a breeze.
One catch however, as many have pointed out before me is that there REALLY should be a save template/ treepath for which nodes you have chosen, so you can just with a alot fewer clicks add that set of chosen nodes for the variants of your liking.

Lets say you save a temaplate of chosen nodes needed for getting to max out ECM/ Stealth armor capabilities. Now you can select it for all of those ECM cpable mechs you have, IF you have enough skill points for it. If not, there could pop-up a message telling you that you dont have enough and show you how to get more. Kinda obvious for veteran players, but for new players is nice to have. Because the skill tree can be confusing at first.

i have learned, play around with builds, find what best, THEN add nodes. Some skill trees can be very obvious. For lights, the movement tree is a must.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Tordin, on 28 October 2017 - 04:21 AM, said:

Once you got a hang on how to spec your variants and configs of mechs, fine tuning them is just a breeze.
One catch however, as many have pointed out before me is that there REALLY should be a save template/ treepath for which nodes you have chosen, so you can just with a alot fewer clicks add that set of chosen nodes for the variants of your liking.

Lets say you save a temaplate of chosen nodes needed for getting to max out ECM/ Stealth armor capabilities. Now you can select it for all of those ECM cpable mechs you have, IF you have enough skill points for it. If not, there could pop-up a message telling you that you dont have enough and show you how to get more. Kinda obvious for veteran players, but for new players is nice to have. Because the skill tree can be confusing at first.

i have learned, play around with builds, find what best, THEN add nodes. Some skill trees can be very obvious. For lights, the movement tree is a must.

it's just the typical resistance to change man.

They don't WANT to learn a new system, so they cry it's "too hard" and "too confusing"