93 replies to this topic

[The Cyberserker]

Trissila, on 30 October 2017 - 09:58 PM, said:

You can't always outrun them, especially if you're being TAG'd. I've got an alt that runs an ALRM40+TAG build and it murders lights pretty handily if they're exposed.

I wasn't tagged. I was running along minding my own business and suddenly got a incoming missile warning. I looked around and couldn't see anyone in LoS. Definitely no red tag lasers pointing at me. I'm still not sure how the guy was even managing to lock me.

November11th, on 30 October 2017 - 11:09 PM, said:

I own a stealthy pirates bane, never been killed by LRMS. xD.

Not that hard when you have ECM. I was in a 1E. My LRM defense is hoping I can either break the lock or find cover before I get 1 shotted. You never get locked in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about LRMs. I actually think they need a buff. Just saying it's not exactly difficult to never die to something you hard counter. It's like saying you never died to a Pirate's Bane on your 6 SSRM6 + BAP catapult. Yeah, duh.

Edited by The Cyberserker, 31 October 2017 - 01:02 AM.

[Bogus]

Heheheh...lurm QQ? That's like the least dangerous thing out there. I fear Barney the purple dinosaur a lot more than I fear the lurm...that boy has a dark secret, I'm tellin' ya.

[Shifty McSwift]

Yeah, it's all relative stuff, but LRMs deal their damage in the least effective way when it comes to direct fire, they are quite literally the gun you want your opponent to have when you are firing your non LRM weapon at optimal range.

Of course that notion may change a little if 9 players start dumping lrm 60 volleys into you specifically on polar highlands, but nonetheless in that kind of direct exchange scenario, LRMs are the worst. Good thing they have other usages outside of that.

[Vellron2005]

JediPanther, on 30 October 2017 - 10:09 AM, said:

You only need to watch tier 3 and above game play to know lrms are one of the worst weapons for effectively killing enemy mechs. Boasting about a high damage number with lrms is not impressive. The high number of mechs killed by lrms in one match is. If you get 2-3 kills with a lrm then you did good.

I got 6 kills and 3 KMDDs with a LRM boat the other day.. does that make me good lurmer? It was my 5th 1000+ damage game in QP in a row.. and shockingly, it was not on Polar..

So, now that we've established that I know what I'm talking about..

Kills means nothing in this game. It's the KMDD you want.

Any cocky light can poke your soft cherry red target with a MG and steal your kill. In fact, that's what a lot of people do to pad their stats..

I once had a dead teammate who was spectating me tell me "Geez Vellron, you should have gotten like 4 kills in this match, the kill stealing is real!" - I got 4 KMDDs that match..

So trust me. It's not your job as a LRM boat to get kills. Your job as a LRM boat is to make targets softer for other people, and get the job done. If you get a bunch of kills as a LRM boat, it means the brawlers have dropped the ball.

If we draw the analogy of a soccer match.. The LRM boat is not the goal-getter. It's the guy in the back, the play maker, that controls the play, the movement of the teammates and the opposing players, even protecting his team's goal. So telling a LRM boat that they only do good if they get 3 kills is kinda like telling the goalie or the playmaker they only did good if they scored a goal. It's just outright wrong.

That's why there's a role called "SUPPORT"

High damage is good for a LRM boat. A lot of KMDDs is the hallmark of an effective LRM boat.

Also, if you do 500+ damage in ANY mech, no matter what build, you can say you did OK. More than 700, you did Good. A 1000+, you're awesome. REGARDLESS of mech and build.

Now, back on topic:

It's funny to me how people keep claiming Lurmageddon, and at the same time outright bulling people for using the worst system in the game.. You guys are just hilarious to me.. are LRMs OP or "the worst"?

Make up your damn minds!

I guess it depends who's hands are acquiring target lock.. But then again.. the same can be said for every other weapon in the game..

Edited by Vellron2005, 31 October 2017 - 03:52 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Vellron2005, on 31 October 2017 - 03:33 AM, said:

Now, back on topic:

It's funny to me how people keep claiming Lurmageddon, and at the same time outright bulling people for using the worst system in the game.. You guys are just hilarious to me.. are LRMs OP or "the worst".. make up your damn minds!

I guess it depends who's hands are acquiring target lock.. But then again.. the same can be said for every other weapon in the game..

Well I personally laugh at the idea of lurmageddon because I don't see it in particular, I mean some matches, every now and again it feels like lurmageddon in the moment, but it is not even close to "every game/every death" being directly or indirectly a result of LRMs.

I also didn't mean to suggest LRMs suck in general, their support usage can be really well done, and I have personally watched spectated a few LRM pilots who are amazing (one guy was tagging and narcing down people, while drawing their fire and mostly dodging it, and maintaining a great distance etc, that kind of play is great usage of the weapon system, and punishing players who refuse to take AMS support etc).

But that is beside the point when comparing that in the context of direct fire exchange, LRMs are literally the worst at that as soon as your opponent is in their optimal range (and even max range with some weapons). But as I said, that is not their only usage, so they are far from useless weapons.

[Vellron2005]

Shifty McSwift, on 31 October 2017 - 03:45 AM, said:

But that is beside the point when comparing that in the context of direct fire exchange, LRMs are literally the worst at that as soon as your opponent is in their optimal range (and even max range with some weapons). But as I said, that is not their only usage, so they are far from useless weapons.

Well bloody DUH, of course LRMs are useless in a direct fire fight.. They are not designed to be used that way.. that's like saying artillery batteries are useless when facing tanks in close quarters.. Or that a bow and arrow is useless in melee combat. That's why you have to bring at least some backup lasers..

Also why you don't take LRMs to a direct fire fight, and stay in cover. (something much harder to do now that our arc has been neutered).

If you want a direct fire fight with missiles, use MRMs or ATMs..

Edited by Vellron2005, 31 October 2017 - 04:11 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Vellron2005, on 31 October 2017 - 03:33 AM, said:

It's funny to me how people keep claiming Lurmageddon, and at the same time outright bulling people for using the worst system in the game.. You guys are just hilarious to me.. are LRMs OP or "the worst"?

Make up your damn minds!

My use of the term never really whether it's effective, but it's when it's prolific, little about the reason WHY it's prolific.

As to why lurmageddons are hated, maybe it's not because it's working -- but rather it's not, such as inexperienced LRMers against experienced targets that players end up being just a liability, or maybe it scares the inexperienced that we cannot properly work as a team. But for sure, so much LRMs is annoying.

And to those people being "bullied", you really have a loose definition of bullying that a lot of things that aren't bullying could be classified, and to that end there's not really much we can do.

Trissila, on 30 October 2017 - 06:03 PM, said:

You have to be very careful about LAMS. I've got an alt that runs a SupportFox with 2 LAMS units and I have to watch the heat bar like a hawk to toggle them, because under very heavy LRM rain (because some fool stood out in the open and didn't spec for Radar Dep...), those LAMS can overheat you in about two seconds. I wouldn't ever equip the third LAMS even if I could spare the tonnage because they're heat-limited as it is.

Then again, I've had rounds where I shot down almost 1,000 missiles, so.

I tried to fit 2x AMS + 1x LAMS.

Kind of works, but that excess 0.5t is killing me.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 31 October 2017 - 04:30 AM.

[g4borg]

Actually, LRM spam match just made me come to the forum again. And it is handy, that there is always at least one topic open about it, where carebear wannabe forum warrior heroes get their daily dosage of git gud.

Shifty McSwift, on 31 October 2017 - 03:45 AM, said:

Well I personally laugh at the idea of lurmageddon because I don't see it in particular, I mean some matches, every now and again it feels like lurmageddon in the moment, but it is not even close to "every game/every death" being directly or indirectly a result of LRMs.

Yeah, it isn't in every match. But to be honest, let's just be happy, most people see it this way. And of course, it is hard to overlook, that most people defending the LRM are just afraid they get nerfed in the wrong way and become totally obsolete.

I heard all these excuses, that you just have to learn to avoid them, put up AMS, use the ECM, its just spread damage; I have played the games, where people hid behind houses and tried to survive the storm and even won by ducking it out.
I also admit, there is some skill to it, to be more effective as a Lurmboat. I have seen the explanations, that people do not land top damage, or get the most kills. All my mechs either feature ECM or AMS and yes, personally, I might survive a bit longer.

Still, all these are just repeated excuses, because some LRMers do not want to face the truth. It is the number one meta weapon of lazyness.

The reality is, it holds up the team, is responsible for one side losing its heavier mechs earlier, or at least have them damaged to a point they cannot truly pose a threat. It also makes people have to hide in cover, and become predictable. The team with more LRMs has initiative.

It is cheap indirect damage you can apply whenever someone has line of sight on the enemy. And of course, no one says, a purely LRM build team is a good idea.

As I said in another before, I think the problem is their spammy nature. LRMs get too many missiles per ton. They are easy as f to play, even if there are others who become masters in it. You do not have to think about how to shoot, or not even sacrifice much to get a good amount of ammo if you were to spam, like you have to on a kinetic platform e.g. and most even don't care about equipping any other weapons.

I find it ridiculously easy to fit enough ammo on any LRM build and not even skill for more ammo. Easier than a gauss or AC20 build. Yes, you might not get the killshots. And your damage is spread. And you are easy to kill once the enemy advances, if it ever does so. But chances are, if at least 3 people spam lrms like no tomorrow from the start of the match, your team will have better positions, your team will most likely face damaged units in the brawl, and your team most likely also will score the first kill, so the two medium lasers you equip will be enough for the fight.

it's disgusting.

I will still put up AMS on every build, and I am not saying to remove them completely or nerf them to oblivion, just make people pay for their spam. by either reducing the number of ammo per ton, or increasing the ammos weight to 1.5

or any other measure, but the game is truly bleeding on the whole range game. its also boring as f*.

Agent 0range, on 30 October 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

I have lazy lurrmed from t4 to t2 rapidly approaching t1 mainly because i dont enjoy quick play much and low effort lurms from 400m generally produce enough match score for event or cbill farming.

this. at least this guy is honest.

Grandpaw, on 30 October 2017 - 05:48 PM, said:

I don't get how so many people on here complain about lurms so much but are fine with strikes

because strikes are highlighted, have to be applied by LOS, are one use only, and you sacrifice skills and abilities to get more. Not saying i am a big fan of it, but i see their merit, especially since they are the only effective AoE weapon.

Edited by g4borg, 31 October 2017 - 05:00 AM.

[Vellron2005]

The6thMessenger, on 31 October 2017 - 04:26 AM, said:

And to those people being "bullied", you really have a loose definition of bullying that a lot of things that aren't bullying could be classified, and to that end there's not really much we can do.

Well, here's what LRM "bullying" looks like in this game, from my own personal experience, and what I see people getting/doing in-game:

1) The ever popular "we lost, and it's cose' you brought LRMs. Its all your fault"

2) From a 12-man premade rocking 12 identical copy/paste SRM Linebackers that just stomped a bunch of uncoordinated pugs - "Next time, bring more LRMs"

3) From a-holes that get on the LRM thrashing bandwagon, after you completely obliterate them using LRMs: "Lrm noobs"

4) From high-and-mighty overbearing unit commanders in your team where there's 8 of them and 4 pugs: I don't want no lrms on my team, you bring lrms, I TK you"

5) Then there are like a gazillion topics on the forums where LRM users are told they don't contribute to their teams, regardless of them out-performing many direct fire users in damage, kills and KMDDs.

6) Getting that oh-so-sweet "oh shait, our assaults are LRM boats, better just suicide now and be done with this match"

7) Getting told you're a LRM noob because you're the last guy standing, and even though you did the most damage, kills and KMDDS on both sides of the match, and you found yourself simply too battered to kill the last 2-3 enemies, you are somehow labeled as a bad player. Cose' you brought LRMs.

8) Getting told to "drag your *** to the front line you lazy cowardly assault" by a guy who consistently fails to notice your kills racking up, and then being told you did not contribute to the match, only to see his score is sub 300 damage, and you are, yet again, the most effective player in both your and the enemy team (often doubling the next guy's scores in kills and damage)

I can go on and on like this..

All these are examples of bullying.

Imagine if you were in a relationship and your significant other kept telling you, that you suck, that what you're doing, all your effort, despite obvious results, was not worth it, meant nothing, and you were just a bad person for doing it? How about your parents being this unsupportive?

Would you consider that bullying?

If you would not.. guess you either never felt being bullied, or you yourself are doing this to others.

it's not tough love.

it's not teaching anybody anything.

We are not asking for this.

We deserve better.

It is BULLYING and it must stop.

Edited by Vellron2005, 31 October 2017 - 05:01 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

g4borg, on 31 October 2017 - 04:55 AM, said:

Actually, LRM spam match just made me come to the forum again. And it is handy, that there is always at least one topic open about it, where carebear wannabe forum warrior heroes get their daily dosage of git gud.



Yeah, it isn't in every match. But to be honest, let's just be happy, most people see it this way. And of course, it is hard to overlook, that most people defending the LRM are just afraid they get nerfed in the wrong way and become totally obsolete.

I heard all these excuses, that you just have to learn to avoid them, put up AMS, use the ECM, its just spread damage; I have played the games, where people hid behind houses and tried to survive the storm and even won by ducking it out.
I also admit, there is some skill to it, to be more effective as a Lurmboat. I have seen the explanations, that people do not land top damage, or get the most kills. All my mechs either feature ECM or AMS and yes, personally, I might survive a bit longer.

Still, all these are just repeated excuses, because some LRMers do not want to face the truth. It is the number one meta weapon of lazyness.

The reality is, it holds up the team, is responsible for one side losing its heavier mechs earlier, or at least have them damaged to a point they cannot truly pose a threat. It also makes people have to hide in cover, and become predictable. The team with more LRMs has initiative.

It is cheap indirect damage you can apply whenever someone has line of sight on the enemy. And of course, no one says, a purely LRM build team is a good idea.

As I said in another thread, where people danced up and tried to explain how much it is just skill and a problem of the "low tiers", I think the problem is their spammy nature. LRMs get too many missiles per ton. They are easy as f to play, even if there are others who become masters in it. You do not have to think about how to shoot, or not even sacrifice much to get a good amount of ammo if you were to spam, like you have to on a kinetic platform e.g. and most even don't care about equipping any other weapons.

I find it ridiculously easy to fit enough ammo on any LRM build and not even skill for more ammo. Easier than a gauss or AC20 build. Yes, you might not get the killshots. And your damage is spread. And you are easy to kill once the enemy advances, if it ever does so. But chances are, if at least 3 people spam lrms like no tomorrow from the start of the match, your team will have better positions, your team will most likely face damaged units in the brawl, and your team most likely also will score the first kill, so the two medium lasers you equip will be enough for the fight.

it's disgusting.

I will still put up AMS on every build, and I am not saying to remove them completely or nerf them to oblivion, just make people pay for their spam. by either reducing the number of ammo per ton, or increasing the ammos weight to 1.5



this. at least this guy is honest.



because strikes are highlighted, have to be applied by LOS, are one use only, and you sacrifice skills and abilities to get more. Not saying i am a big fan of it, but i see their merit, especially since they are the only effective AoE weapon.

I laugh because I don't see it in practice to any degree of "lurmageddon" in the tier and builds I play. But that doesn't mean it isn't a "problem" in areas I cannot or do not see play in, and yeah I would agree with that idea that LRMs can be used to "score farm" in ways that will greatly upset those players at higher ends, but it's not the only weapon boating option with that kind of effect. These can all still be valid points alongside each other.

[Shifty McSwift]

Vellron2005, on 31 October 2017 - 04:58 AM, said:

Would you consider that bullying?

If you would not.. guess you either never felt being bullied, or you yourself are doing this to others.

it's not tough love.

it's not teaching anybody anything.

We are not asking for this.

We deserve better.

It is BULLYING and it must stop.

It would be a case by case circumstantial thing to really determine intent there. But something that is often forgotten in this mostly 24 man deathmatch game is that in a "good game" some 20 of you are going to get clipped, in general the longer your range and the more you utilise longer optimal range guns, the further it puts you from the central flow of combat, more often leaving you as one of the last left alive. That unfortunately puts you in a position of being spectated more often by more players who just died and want something to rage at, it kind of comes with the territory in ways.

[Vellron2005]

Shifty McSwift, on 31 October 2017 - 05:10 AM, said:

It would be a case by case circumstantial thing to really determine intent there. But something that is often forgotten in this mostly 24 man deathmatch game is that in a "good game" some 20 of you are going to get clipped, in general the longer your range and the more you utilise longer optimal range guns, the further it puts you from the central flow of combat, more often leaving you as one of the last left alive. That unfortunately puts you in a position of being spectated more often by more players who just died and want something to rage at, it kind of comes with the territory in ways.

Yes, being the last guy standing makes the rest of your team spectate you. But if those that died before me are raging, they have the right to hit their screen, hit their keyboard, or scream at their computer. Not at ME.

I'm not the reason for their rage, (unless I lurmed them to death, in which case, sorry for the TK)

And yet, I'm the guy they dump on. Me. The guy not at fault.

You know what that is?

The textbook definition of bullying.

I know it's sooooo easy to just spew venom at somebody over a screen. It's even easier if its somebody who's different, who's using an unpopular weapon. None of these guys would be saying any of it if we were face to face, cose' there's a good chance their own face would be smashed in. Or their mother would make them apologize for being an a-hole.

But that does not make it right.

P.S.

The above mentioned examples of bullying are just tip of the iceberg. Most of it Is what I personally had said / done to me in the last few days alone. And not just at me.. At almost every LRM user I've dropped with, even when I myself am not in a LRM boat. I've found ways to deal with it, ignore it, work past it, respond to it.. But it does not make it any less ugly.

"Case by case" isn't really a thing here because there's a common denominator to all of this - a LRM boat that usually out-performs his bully in every way, and a small, angry player who bullies him nonetheless because it's common to bully LRM users.

It's basically a schoolyard mentality.

Edited by Vellron2005, 31 October 2017 - 05:27 AM.

[Cabusha]

As has been mentioned, there's already plenty of counters to LRMs, and especially at higher tiers they tend to be a non issue. Not totally useless though. My favorite Warhawk rocks 3xERPPCs + 2xLRM5s. The fives are purely there for harassment and suppression purposes. Get a random lock early game? " Here, have some lurms! " Firing line setup and plenty of heat? Have some Salty LRMs and Pepper PPCs! Need to disengage to cool but want to keep the pressure on? Eat some more LRMs dirtbag!

I know they're doing little damage, but the psychological effect is consistently hilarious. Gotta love pushing assaults and heavies back to cover, losing the initiative, for a minimal tonnage investment.

[g4borg]

Shifty McSwift, on 31 October 2017 - 05:04 AM, said:

I laugh because I don't see it in practice to any degree of "lurmageddon" in the tier and builds I play.

gotcha. i am still tier 3 (at least its better than tier 5 spam...), but to be honest i considered just farming up to tier 2 with lrms aswell. why put in effort if you can just abuse it aswell, right!?
on the other hand, i want to learn to play effectively - and while i can have my fun playing my arctic cheetah and just run around with perma ecm and quick cover or go fp, i really enjoy a game where everyone just goes into medium to short range brawl, without the whole foreplay of peekaboo and standing in cover while eating a sandwitch.

[Shifty McSwift]

Vellron2005, on 31 October 2017 - 05:18 AM, said:

Yes, being the last guy standing makes the rest of your team spectate you. But if those that died before me are raging, they have the right to hit their screen, hit their keyboard, or scream at their computer. Not at ME.

I'm not the reason for their rage, (unless I lurmed them to death, in which case, sorry for the TK)

And yet, I'm the guy they dump on. Me. The guy not at fault.

You know what that is?

The textbook definition of bullying.

I know it's sooooo easy to just spew venom at somebody over a screen. It's even easier if it somebody who's different, who's using an unpopular weapon. None of these guys would be saying any of it if we were face to face, cose' there's a good chance their own face would be smashed in. Or their mother would make them apologize for being an a-hole.

But that does not make it right.

Indeed, and that is why you have to take it on a case by case basis, the mute and report functions exist for a reason, some people are just not willing or able and/or not in the mood to use effective communications. If all one is spewing when they open their chatbox is bile, then that does nothing positive for anyone, and the accumulation of reports should have an effect there, and that person has proven themselves worthy of at least temporary muting if you feel it necessary.

It is entirely up to you to what extent you use these tools and where you feel it should apply, but I guess just try remember that idea of value versus pure bile, people can often have decent advice and the like, they just also often smother it in insults for some reason during the heat of game battles. Gotta try to sift the random rage outbursts from the genuine trolls etc.

[Asym]

Vellron2005, on 31 October 2017 - 04:58 AM, said:

Well, here's what LRM "bullying" looks like in this game, from my own personal experience, and what I see people getting/doing in-game:

1) The ever popular "we lost, and it's cose' you brought LRMs. Its all your fault"

2) From a 12-man premade rocking 12 identical copy/paste SRM Linebackers that just stomped a bunch of uncoordinated pugs - "Next time, bring more LRMs"

3) From a-holes that get on the LRM thrashing bandwagon, after you completely obliterate them using LRMs: "Lrm noobs"

4) From high-and-mighty overbearing unit commanders in your team where there's 8 of them and 4 pugs: I don't want no lrms on my team, you bring lrms, I TK you"

5) Then there are like a gazillion topics on the forums where LRM users are told they don't contribute to their teams, regardless of them out-performing many direct fire users in damage, kills and KMDDs.

6) Getting that oh-so-sweet "oh shait, our assaults are LRM boats, better just suicide now and be done with this match"

7) Getting told you're a LRM noob because you're the last guy standing, and even though you did the most damage, kills and KMDDS on both sides of the match, and you found yourself simply too battered to kill the last 2-3 enemies, you are somehow labeled as a bad player. Cose' you brought LRMs.

8) Getting told to "drag your *** to the front line you lazy cowardly assault" by a guy who consistently fails to notice your kills racking up, and then being told you did not contribute to the match, only to see his score is sub 300 damage, and you are, yet again, the most effective player in both your and the enemy team (often doubling the next guy's scores in kills and damage)

I can go on and on like this..

All these are examples of bullying.

Imagine if you were in a relationship and your significant other kept telling you, that you suck, that what you're doing, all your effort, despite obvious results, was not worth it, meant nothing, and you were just a bad person for doing it? How about your parents being this unsupportive?

Would you consider that bullying?

If you would not.. guess you either never felt being bullied, or you yourself are doing this to others.

it's not tough love.

it's not teaching anybody anything.

We are not asking for this.

We deserve better.

It is BULLYING and it must stop.

Spot on !

#4 is what I've encountered.... The real reason the "expert teams" do this is becauce LRM's are a direct threat to their existence. If LRM's were returned to their full capabilities, the Comp players would no longer be able to sit in the open and snipe at extreme ranges (as we have witnessed in the semi-finals) because, in the real world and as it SHOULD BE HERE:

"what can be seen can be hit and what can be hit can be killed"........end of story and welcome to the real world where sky-lining and ridge hugging just don't and can't happen.....period.....because they are fatal.

Oh yes, the comp guys would not have a chance and the entire comp scene would have to include "combined arms" mechs and all of the defensive systems which, would cost them weight and alpha strike capabilities.......just to survive. Add an un-played maps to the finals and we'd see all of the comp teams stutter and self destruct because their "play books only include exact data" and lacks the ability to improvise as smaller teams.... Add indirect fire, add arrow IV and Long Tom, improved un-announced artillery and air strikes and then, we can talk about real competition and real teams of mech warriors and not just a bunch of gamers who have gamed the system..... Seen it, as have hundreds of us, that wonder "what game are those guys playing?"

I've been TK'd more than once because I was a LRM boat....it make me a little salty and I'm sick of the BS we have to put up with because our damage, W/L or any statistic isn't what someone else thinks is "GuD"......

[Vellron2005]

Shifty McSwift, on 31 October 2017 - 05:30 AM, said:

Indeed, and that is why you have to take it on a case by case basis, the mute and report functions exist for a reason, some people are just not willing or able and/or not in the mood to use effective communications. If all one is spewing when they open their chatbox is bile, then that does nothing positive for anyone, and the accumulation of reports should have an effect there, and that person has proven themselves worthy of at least temporary muting if you feel it necessary.

It is entirely up to you to what extent you use these tools and where you feel it should apply, but I guess just try remember that idea of value versus pure bile, people can often have decent advice and the like, they just also often smother it in insults for some reason during the heat of game battles. Gotta try to sift the random rage outbursts from the genuine trolls etc.

Oh I use the mute option often

Sadly, I've been in this game so long that I've walked the whole path (since closed beta) and have been using LRMs the whole time. So I find it really funny when somebody starts "handing advice tickets" and treating me like I started lurming yesterday..

I let it slide if it's in good spirit and polite, and report it if it's bullying.

The problem with reporting it though is that I've never seen anybody actually get any heat for it. I know people that are proven harassers and cheaters that are still doing the same old thing every time I see them.

Some people I mute instantly as soon as I see them in drop. Some I warn my team about and usually half the team ends up reporting them for obvious reasons..

@Asym - Thank you!

In my humble opinion, Comp play should he played with Trial Mechs exclusively, or better yet - stock mechs & lore builds.

Edited by Vellron2005, 31 October 2017 - 05:55 AM.

[Vellron2005]

@The6thMessanger:

Thank you for giving all of us technical rundown of what is bullying and just toxic. I'm sure people that are feeling like **** after a match that should have been fun will be grateful that they were not "really bullied", merely people were being toxic to them.

It doesn't matter if it's being toxic or bullying, it's still wrong, and should stop.

I'm not actually that touchy that just any mention of LRMs in a negative way affects me, it's just that it's too much of it, and I'm being vocal about it.

If I were that thin skinned, I would not play an MMO.

It's just that nobody is taking any action against this, nobody is speaking up. It's like Harvey Weinstein. 20 years of silence, until one person started talking.

I'm done being silent.

My skin is plenty thick thank you very much.

And as far as LRMs being a bad weapon.. sorry.. I just can't call a weapon that I specialize in, and do my highest scores with, bad.

It's not bad.

You really, really just gotta know how to use it.

[Lykaon]

g4borg, on 31 October 2017 - 04:55 AM, said:

Actually, LRM spam match just made me come to the forum again. And it is handy, that there is always at least one topic open about it, where carebear wannabe forum warrior heroes get their daily dosage of git gud.



Yeah, it isn't in every match. But to be honest, let's just be happy, most people see it this way. And of course, it is hard to overlook, that most people defending the LRM are just afraid they get nerfed in the wrong way and become totally obsolete.

I heard all these excuses, that you just have to learn to avoid them, put up AMS, use the ECM, its just spread damage; I have played the games, where people hid behind houses and tried to survive the storm and even won by ducking it out.
I also admit, there is some skill to it, to be more effective as a Lurmboat. I have seen the explanations, that people do not land top damage, or get the most kills. All my mechs either feature ECM or AMS and yes, personally, I might survive a bit longer.

Still, all these are just repeated excuses, because some LRMers do not want to face the truth. It is the number one meta weapon of lazyness.

The reality is, it holds up the team, is responsible for one side losing its heavier mechs earlier, or at least have them damaged to a point they cannot truly pose a threat. It also makes people have to hide in cover, and become predictable. The team with more LRMs has initiative.

It is cheap indirect damage you can apply whenever someone has line of sight on the enemy. And of course, no one says, a purely LRM build team is a good idea.

As I said in another before, I think the problem is their spammy nature. LRMs get too many missiles per ton. They are easy as f to play, even if there are others who become masters in it. You do not have to think about how to shoot, or not even sacrifice much to get a good amount of ammo if you were to spam, like you have to on a kinetic platform e.g. and most even don't care about equipping any other weapons.

I find it ridiculously easy to fit enough ammo on any LRM build and not even skill for more ammo. Easier than a gauss or AC20 build. Yes, you might not get the killshots. And your damage is spread. And you are easy to kill once the enemy advances, if it ever does so. But chances are, if at least 3 people spam lrms like no tomorrow from the start of the match, your team will have better positions, your team will most likely face damaged units in the brawl, and your team most likely also will score the first kill, so the two medium lasers you equip will be enough for the fight.

it's disgusting.

So your counter point is...if I am reading your intent...

You shouldn't have to "git gud" and experienced players pretty much preaching how to counter LRMs are "excuses" ?

"Number one meta weapon of lazyness"...are you complaining about lazy players being bad or lazy players being good?

If it's lazy players being bad (presumably on your team as teammates) well, PGI doesn't ban lazyness and the matchmaker doesn't track that stats so...sh*t is gonna happen.

If it's Lazy players being good against you...how lazy do YOU have to be to not take the initiative from lazy?

Or maybe you are assuming laziness when none is present?

I would actually argue that laser vomit is a pretty good contender for lazy meta it's literally point and click with no need to lead a target and with the added benefit of time to adjust aim even if you somehow miss lining up your pixels before you mash alpha strike. It's easy to be passable with laser spam if your target is a potato...sorta exactaly like Lurming just without the stigma.



"The reality is, it holds up the team, is responsible for one side losing its heavier mechs earlier, or at least have them damaged to a point they cannot truly pose a threat. It also makes people have to hide in cover, and become predictable. The team with more LRMs has initiative."

This part here is unclear.

Do you mean the enemy heavy mechs are damaged by a team's LRMs early and the enemy team is is held up by the LRM fire and that LRMs grant the initiative to a team that utilizes them?

How is this a complaint? that sounds totally awesome for the team utilizing the LRMs. If this was actually true we would be seeing LRMs used exstencivley in all tiers...but we don't because it's not true.Once effective counter-play is utilized LRMs dramaticly drop in effectiveness.

But if you mean that LRM cause friendly mechs to be held up and friendly heavy mechs to be damaged than isn't the part about granting initiative directly contrary to the claim of holding the team up?

I'm confused because you if you mean the former and not the later then you make LRMs sound great.

Now about your observations on LRM ammo counts. On an average players who use LRMs well have a lower than 40% hit ratio. When you take into account that even if a single LRM from a volley hits the target the volley as a whole counts on the stats board as a "hit". This means that even that sub-40% accuracy is inflated in value as it pertains to how many actual missiles hit targets, I would estimate the number of effective projectiles for a decent LRM user to be around 25% of the total ammo launched at targets because LRMs are so easily countered and mitigated.

AC20 or Gauss ammo is significantly more reliable at dealing it's damage. You would have a more valid point IF there were Anit-Gauss-Systems shooting down your gauss ammo or if ECM prevented AC20s from firing or if either weapon required a lock on time had a projectile speed under 170mps and also gave a warning when it was fired to a perspective target.

LRMs have relativley high ammo counts because of this.

You go on to say the following...

"you might not get the killshots. And your damage is spread. And you are easy to kill once the enemy advances,"

Do you know what you just described?

Counter ballance points. The downsides that is paid for the upsides.

[Lykaon]

Vellron2005, on 31 October 2017 - 06:29 AM, said:

@The6thMessanger:

Thank you for giving all of us technical rundown of what is bullying and just toxic. I'm sure people that are feeling like **** after a match that should have been fun will be grateful that they were not "really bullied", merely people were being toxic to them.

Don't even waste any time with this one...

6th is what is known as an "expert" on all maters they deem worthy of typing out.