Jump to content

Where's The Ppc Skill Node?

Balance Gameplay Skills

28 replies to this topic

#1 Troa Barton

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Bowman
  • The Bowman
  • 356 posts
  • Twitch: Link
  • LocationUS

Posted 02 November 2017 - 01:07 PM

Every other weapon seems to get access to dedicated weapon skill nodes except the PPC.
Missile nodes for streaks, SRMs, MRMs, LRMs, ATMs.
LBX spread nodes
Gauss nodes
laser duration
RAC/UAC nodes
ammo capacity
velocity works for every projectile
heat works for everything except gauss and isn't sufficient for a PPC build.
cooldown works for everything
Even flamers have a dedicated node...

PPCs however have nothing going for them which is odd because its kind of a niche weapon.

There is a spot in the weapon skill tree where two nodes could easily be added to either side of the bottom laser duration node at the end of each heat gen.

I'm proposing two nodes that are each -5% PPC heat generation.

Thoughts?

Edited by Troa Barton, 02 November 2017 - 01:14 PM.


#2 FupDup

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 26,888 posts
  • LocationThe Keeper of Memes

Posted 02 November 2017 - 01:09 PM

PPCs already benefit from cooldown, heat, range, and velocity nodes.

Maybe a min range node?

#3 Troa Barton

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Bowman
  • The Bowman
  • 356 posts
  • Twitch: Link
  • LocationUS

Posted 02 November 2017 - 01:13 PM

View PostFupDup, on 02 November 2017 - 01:09 PM, said:

PPCs already benefit from cooldown, heat, range, and velocity nodes.

Maybe a min range node?

LRMS benefit from all of those nodes as well while also having high explosive, missile rack, and missile spread.
The idea of a minimum range node isn't a bad one but it would have to add range to snubs while reducing the minimum range for the others. For me however the biggest problem when using PPCs is the excessive heat rather than the minimum range.

#4 Paigan

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Blazing
  • The Blazing
  • 2,789 posts

Posted 02 November 2017 - 01:15 PM

IMHO, the velocity node is the "PPC node". It just also applies to ballistics.
One might lament about it not being shiny exclusively named. One can also be happy about the additinal value the node has.

#5 Bulletsponge0

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Vicious
  • The Vicious
  • 2,949 posts

Posted 02 November 2017 - 01:22 PM

View PostTroa Barton, on 02 November 2017 - 01:13 PM, said:

LRMS benefit from all of those nodes as well while also having high explosive, missile rack, and missile spread.
The idea of a minimum range node isn't a bad one but it would have to add range to snubs while reducing the minimum range for the others. For me however the biggest problem when using PPCs is the excessive heat rather than the minimum range.

PPCs (of all varieties) should be rather warm..they are basically lighter AC5/10/15's with unlimited ammo. oh, the the heat gen nodes, because they are percentage based, benefit the PPC family more than they benefit missiles, ballistics and most lasers.

#6 MechaBattler

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • Survivor
  • 5,122 posts

Posted 02 November 2017 - 01:29 PM

I like Fupdup's idea. A lower min range node. Though obviously it wouldn't be of any use to ER and Snub PPCs.

Edited by MechaBattler, 02 November 2017 - 01:29 PM.


#7 Khobai

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 23,969 posts

Posted 02 November 2017 - 01:34 PM

Quote

For me however the biggest problem when using PPCs is the excessive heat rather than the minimum range.


Well the heat is definitely screwed up on some PPCs for sure

Like why would anyone in their right mind ever use a snub nose PPC over a large pulse laser?

Way more heat, longer cooldown, less range, not hitscan, etc... yeah it weighs 1 less ton but the extra heatsinks you have to bring negate that entirely. SNPPC is complete crap.

Quote

I like Fupdup's idea. A lower min range node. Though obviously it wouldn't be of any use to ER and Snub PPCs.


Im not sure about PPCs getting a node that removes their min range because that would seriously mess up the internal balance of PPCs. Since the only real advantage of the SNPPC is that it has no min range. If regular PPCs have no min range theres no reason to ever use SNPPC.

I would just change PPC min range to linear damage dropoff instead of a 0 damage deadzone. No skill nodes required. The 0 damage deadzone simply isnt fun and shouldve been removed a long time ago. SNPPC also probably needs to go from 10->11 damage and from 10->8.5 heat.

But a skill node that gives PPCs a HUD disruption ability would be cool. Like it makes your whole HUD and sensors go wonky and makes you lose targeting capability for 0.5-1 second or whatever. Although there would also have to be a sensor skill that counters HUD disruption or it screws LRMs even more.

Edited by Khobai, 02 November 2017 - 01:52 PM.


#8 Bombast

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 7,709 posts

Posted 02 November 2017 - 01:46 PM

View PostKhobai, on 02 November 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

Like why would anyone in their right mind ever use a snub nose PPC over a large pulse laser?


SNPPCs pair pretty well with AC/20s. Kind of a limited thing, but there it is.

I can imagine chassis with massive PPC quirks may consider the SNPPC as well.

#9 VonBruinwald

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Undisputed
  • The Undisputed
  • 3,460 posts
  • LocationRandis IV

Posted 02 November 2017 - 01:46 PM

View PostKhobai, on 02 November 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

But a node that gives PPCs a HUD disruption ability would be cool.


You might be on to something, 12.5+12.5% extended anti-ECM effect would be handy.

But what of non-ECM targets you say? How about the inability to target lock for the same duration. Makes PPC's a little more technical don't you think?

#10 FupDup

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 26,888 posts
  • LocationThe Keeper of Memes

Posted 02 November 2017 - 01:50 PM

View PostKhobai, on 02 November 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

Im not sure about PPCs getting a node that removes their min range because that would seriously mess up the internal balance of PPCs. Since the only real advantage of the SNPPC is that it has no min range. If regular PPCs have no min range theres no reason to ever use SNPPC.

The Snubber should only be around 8 heat or so because of its reduced range. Maybe a little faster cooldown too. It's supposed to be suited for brawling after all.

Also remember that Snubbers are a bit lighter and smaller.

#11 Khobai

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 23,969 posts

Posted 02 November 2017 - 01:55 PM

Im thinking 11 damage and 8.5 heat for the SNPPC

That puts it in line with the 10 damage 9.5 heat for the PPC

And the PPC should have linear damage dropoff not a 0 damage deadzone.

Quote

You might be on to something, 12.5+12.5% extended anti-ECM effect would be handy.

But what of non-ECM targets you say? How about the inability to target lock for the same duration. Makes PPC's a little more technical don't you think?


Well by HUD disruption I mean it would disrupt your entire HUD and make it useless. Similar to if you press the key to turn off your HUD. Except instead of the HUD disappearing there would be a HUD disruption effect that makes everything look scrambled.

But there would have to be a skill in the sensor tree that counters it so LRMs dont get screwed even more. I would just attach it to one of the existing sensor skills since theyre not very good anyway.

Quote

SNPPCs pair pretty well with AC/20s. Kind of a limited thing, but there it is.


Even then I think id rather have LPLs. Same damage but way more heat efficient and better range. And LPL have such short duration its practically the same thing as PPFLD against most heavy/assault mechs. Maybe not against lights or mediums, but its not like theyre hard to kill without true PPFLD anyway.

Edited by Khobai, 02 November 2017 - 02:03 PM.


#12 Gas Guzzler

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • Big Daddy
  • 14,274 posts
  • LocationCalifornia Central Coast

Posted 02 November 2017 - 02:08 PM

View PostKhobai, on 02 November 2017 - 01:55 PM, said:

Even then I think id rather have LPLs. Same damage but way more heat efficient and better range. And LPL have such short duration its practically the same thing as PPFLD against most heavy/assault mechs. Maybe not against lights or mediums, but its not like theyre hard to kill without true PPFLD anyway.


Point of aim is a lot closer when you fire SNPPCs with an AC20 vs LPLs. Slow projectile and hitscan doesn't sync very well.

#13 Khobai

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 23,969 posts

Posted 02 November 2017 - 02:17 PM

Quote

Point of aim is a lot closer when you fire SNPPCs with an AC20 vs LPLs. Slow projectile and hitscan doesn't sync very well.


well I wouldnt be using an AC20 anyway, id be using a UAC20

AC20 is kindve obsolete IMO compared to UAC20

#14 Shifty McSwift

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,889 posts

Posted 03 November 2017 - 05:47 AM

Splash damage nodes.

#15 Troa Barton

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Bowman
  • The Bowman
  • 356 posts
  • Twitch: Link
  • LocationUS

Posted 04 November 2017 - 02:12 PM

View PostBulletsponge0, on 02 November 2017 - 01:22 PM, said:

PPCs (of all varieties) should be rather warm..they are basically lighter AC5/10/15's with unlimited ammo. oh, the the heat gen nodes, because they are percentage based, benefit the PPC family more than they benefit missiles, ballistics and most lasers.


I can understand that argument however in practice it's a little extreme.
For a 4 PPC build you have to devote the rest of your crit slots to heat sinks, all of them for a mere 40 damage medium range weapon platform that is still far too hot.
Two Gauss and two mediums is far more efficient, has better range, has no minimum range, can be used on a heavy chassis with ease, and can be fired together. The extra weight and ammo is negligible as you will have all the ammo you need, enough weight for it, and far better heat management.

Firing 2 AC20's at the same time is more heat efficient.

The point here is that every other direct fire weapon system can be used without all of the drawbacks of PPCs. All of the alternatives will outperform PPC's by a very large margin. The ghost heat mechanic gave them a sustained DPS role (being unable to fire more than 2) without the capacity to be DPS weapons.

As far as the Heat Gen nodes being better for PPCs that is true but it hardly makes a difference. That's like saying you can get 10% off any car when you only have 10K to spend. Sure that would be more savings off a Lambo but it doesn't matter if you only have 10K to work with. The amount of heat they generate is so much that even if you devote 100% of your nodes to heat gen. cool run, and heat containment, it wont be enough.

Proof being in the pudding and the eating how many dedicated PPC builds do you actually see? How many of those are actually effective and have a decent score at the end of a match? Contrary to this how many Gauss builds do you see? How many Ballistic builds? There is a huge gap in performance for PPCs one that makes any energy based Inner Sphere assault non meta unless it can boat large lasers which really won't outperform a similar clan build. This transfers over to clan as well, why use PPCs when you can vomit lasers or use a Kodiak 3?

They just aren't viable weapons unless paired with something ballistic, and when paired with something ballistic they lose heat sinks, they aren't effective on their own or in tandem.

A further 10% off of their heat would still keep them from being competitive with the likes of autocannons or gauss. They would still be comparatively hot and still require a mech full of heat sinks and a skill tree devoted to heat management.

#16 JadePanther

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Liquid Metal
  • Liquid Metal
  • 967 posts

Posted 11 November 2017 - 09:53 PM

Suggestion.

PPC overcharge node..
Adds X pts of splash damage.

could also possibly have one that increases splash radius..

#17 storm0545

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 94 posts

Posted 12 November 2017 - 06:53 AM

i wouldn't mind a combination of the introduction of ppc capacitors and a skill tree node that deals with the capacitors in some way.

#18 LordNothing

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 17,567 posts

Posted 12 November 2017 - 07:14 AM

ppcs are affected by velocity, range, and heat. so there is plenty of upgrade potential there.

the weapon that seems to get shafted by the nodes the most is probibly the machine gun. sure there are ammo capacity nodes but thats all it gets. kinda think the lbx spread nodes should help reduce those (possibly also rac spread, not that they spread very much).

Edited by LordNothing, 12 November 2017 - 07:15 AM.


#19 Brain Cancer

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • 3,851 posts

Posted 12 November 2017 - 10:03 AM

View PostMechaBattler, on 02 November 2017 - 01:29 PM, said:

I like Fupdup's idea. A lower min range node. Though obviously it wouldn't be of any use to ER and Snub PPCs.


Hi, ATMs and LRMs here. We're interested in your killer new skill app...

#20 davoodoo

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Liquid Metal
  • Liquid Metal
  • 2,496 posts

Posted 12 November 2017 - 11:01 AM

2 skill nodes which add 10% spreaded damage each for a total of 10/1/1 damage for regular snub and erppc, 5/0.5/0.5 for light and 15/1.5/1.5 for heavy.

Little actual effect but helps with damage for this dps starved class of weapons.

Edited by davoodoo, 12 November 2017 - 11:07 AM.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users