183 replies to this topic

[ANOM O MECH]

Reza Malin, on 14 November 2017 - 05:13 AM, said:

Unless of course, "teams" just want to keep a supply of uncoordinated solo players in the bucket to pad their stats?

People say this about units all of the time... It doesn't make sense. Do you really think that players got good by stomping pugs? Do you not think that decent unit want good fights? If not, how'd they get good?

The only benifit from stomping pugs is that there is a lot of grind in this game and the cbills help. Even so, most if not all of the good units are looking to fight other good players.

[Reza Malin]

tker 669, on 14 November 2017 - 07:54 AM, said:

People say this about units all of the time... It doesn't make sense. Do you really think that players got good by stomping pugs? Do you not think that decent unit want good fights? If not, how'd they get good?

The only benifit from stomping pugs is that there is a lot of grind in this game and the cbills help. Even so, most if not all of the good units are looking to fight other good players.

Believe it or not i have played this game since open beta. Through clan 1st launching, CW betas, the whole lot.

I have been in a few units, and i can categorically say that your quote sadly isn't true.

Everyone says they want to fight "equally skilled" players. Hell i have played with some really great players who should have that attitude because they are very capable. It just blatantly isn't true for a few reasons.

I have played in units where people know guys in other units, wait until they see them "in game" on their friends list, and only then start the drop search. Lots of people do it. Because deep down a lot of players in this game cannot handle losing and avoid people or teams they know that can make that happen.

Anyone can talk a good matchup but really, most people just enjoy killing other people easily, which is only really possible against PUGs. Luckily this is what usually happens so no one ever really finds out. Against other well coordinated teams it doesnt happen because you have to work for it.

You have to run meta builds. You have to push properly. Someone has to die first. Usually an assault with lots of big fun guns, and get very little damage. Everypne has to work together, no solo rampages with mad builds that good players would eat alive.

Also, another good indicator is when some teams come up against a better team and lose, a few people will suddenly start logging off, "ok im getting some food", lol. It happened even before CW even existed.

Finally, the real issue is that with the turnover in players this game has, especially CW, means a lot of units cannot field 12 fully competent players that are not only good at the game and understand it, but also work well as part of a team.

Because of this, when they go up against a team of 12 that have all their own boxes ticked they will lose. The veteran players will then get frustrated because it is not them at fault but they just have inexperienced players with them, who are not as good as some of the veterans in the CW bucket. It isn't their fault either.

There is no real solution as it were because not enough people play CW or want to be in a unit. The reasons are not really important at this point, but i dont see the harm in trying to engage the hordes of QP pilots that play regularly.

After all, they could make it so those big 12 man comp badasses can still just drop as 12 and fight equally skilled 12 man teams right? Oh, wait they tried that and lots of "CW people" didnt like it because they kept losing to the best teams.....

As i said....anyone can talk a good matchup. Some people aren't even that good outaide of a 12 man coordinated unit killing unresponsive PUGs.....its just the nature of the beast.

I just dont get why any discussion about it devloves into the same people raging about pugs and potatoes. Its just sad.

[General Solo]

Its basically spam

In a forum people should have their say and move on.
See a point you disagree with? Argue it and move on so others can have their say.

But some just spam pointless jibberish.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 14 November 2017 - 08:38 AM.

[TWIAFU]

Reza Malin, on 14 November 2017 - 06:43 AM, said:

Im honestly not that bothered either way. Im in a unit.

I understand where solo players are coming from.

My main point was how you instanrly just replied like a douchebag rather than a human being.

I just used his douchebag line against him, pretty much word for word.

[C E Dwyer]

Well solo FW was tried it bombed badly

It also increased the wait time on groups because the solo pilots were needed to fill the 11 man groups so enforced grouping in FW is also a bad idea.

[TWIAFU]

OZHomerOZ, on 14 November 2017 - 07:36 AM, said:

You liked McHoshi's comment about solo's should not be in FW line
yet you would deny them their own solo only respawn casual FW fun bar.
Enough sad

Learn to forumwarrior properly before you come online and make urself look gr8.

Solo CW is the very ANTITHESIS of the very primary design intent of CW, Group and Unit play, so yes, they should not play in CW.

Even the very warning message you failed to comprehend warns you CW is not for the unprepared, non team orientated players, ie, solo.

You want solo casual drops, great. They made a queue just for you, QP Solo. You want casual drops with a bit more teamwork, great! They made a queue for you, Group. They even made a Queue for those people that want teamwork heavy play with a lil bit of BT thrown in, CW.

I will and always have advocated for solo to not play CW, with exception for experienced and talented pilots. Majority of solo in CW are NOT that.

In light of ending solo stomping, I've jumped on board with CW maps and modes in QP with no CW rewards for your casual fun happy happy joy joy fun time.

You want CW rewards, play CW. Casual fun happy happy joy joy fun time CW you are after does not need CW based rewards at all, make them normal QP rewards. It's casual fun, right?

There you go, more are happy with your solo casual fun happy happy joy joy fun time QP safe place. No CW impact. No CW rewards. Just queue up for QP CW, Clan vs IS, and club away.

Your forumwarrior-fu is weak as hell, that is the best you can do? Not even able to address a single point nor comment on proposed 'solution'. Your best is a comment on a 'like'?

Pathetic.

Try again.

[TWIAFU]

Cathy, on 14 November 2017 - 11:07 AM, said:

Well solo FW was tried it bombed badly

It also increased the wait time on groups because the solo pilots were needed to fill the 11 man groups so enforced grouping in FW is also a bad idea.

*brainstorm*

Forced grouping without solo would make it all groups and min size of two.

Give the MM algorithm a break, make it all even groups.

[Reza Malin]

Cathy, on 14 November 2017 - 11:07 AM, said:

Well solo FW was tried it bombed badly

It also increased the wait time on groups because the solo pilots were needed to fill the 11 man groups so enforced grouping in FW is also a bad idea.

That was ages ago.

Its a different game now.

[50 50]

TWIAFU, on 14 November 2017 - 11:22 AM, said:

*brainstorm*

Forced grouping without solo would make it all groups and min size of two.

Give the MM algorithm a break, make it all even groups.

I'm at the point where I feel Faction Play needs to be groups only.
However, I would suggest going with a min/max of 4 for the groups to meet the requirements of forming a lance and taking up the spots in a drop ship etc.
One reason for this is to allow variable match sizes within an acceptable time frame which in itself would provide some variations to the game play.
It also allows any single group to get a scout drop so we can integrate scouting better.
We can also then take advantage of turning the system into a free for all by restricting groups to a single faction so we can then move to get some features and new options for each faction.

@OzHomerOz
With regards to having a casual mode with a respawn, seen in this thread as adding a solo queue to faction play, would it be that we simply need just a new mode added? ie. Like assault but with more bases and a respawn.
Or, is there a requirement in there to be involved in Faction Play because of loyalty points, the factions and 'lore' or something else?
If we were to barrack for a new quick play mode to be added that let us respawn, I believe that would be well worth pushing for.
It could be added to Faction Play, but it seems like that might be the approach we could take?

[ANOM O MECH]

Reza Malin, on 14 November 2017 - 08:24 AM, said:

Believe it or not i have played this game since open beta. Through clan 1st launching, CW betas, the whole lot.

I have been in a few units, and i can categorically say that your quote sadly isn't true.

Everyone says they want to fight "equally skilled" players. Hell i have played with some really great players who should have that attitude because they are very capable. It just blatantly isn't true for a few reasons.

I have played in units where people know guys in other units, wait until they see them "in game" on their friends list, and only then start the drop search. Lots of people do it. Because deep down a lot of players in this game cannot handle losing and avoid people or teams they know that can make that happen.

Anyone can talk a good matchup but really, most people just enjoy killing other people easily, which is only really possible against PUGs. Luckily this is what usually happens so no one ever really finds out. Against other well coordinated teams it doesnt happen because you have to work for it.

You have to run meta builds. You have to push properly. Someone has to die first. Usually an assault with lots of big fun guns, and get very little damage. Everypne has to work together, no solo rampages with mad builds that good players would eat alive.

Also, another good indicator is when some teams come up against a better team and lose, a few people will suddenly start logging off, "ok im getting some food", lol. It happened even before CW even existed.

Finally, the real issue is that with the turnover in players this game has, especially CW, means a lot of units cannot field 12 fully competent players that are not only good at the game and understand it, but also work well as part of a team.

Because of this, when they go up against a team of 12 that have all their own boxes ticked they will lose. The veteran players will then get frustrated because it is not them at fault but they just have inexperienced players with them, who are not as good as some of the veterans in the CW bucket. It isn't their fault either.

There is no real solution as it were because not enough people play CW or want to be in a unit. The reasons are not really important at this point, but i dont see the harm in trying to engage the hordes of QP pilots that play regularly.

After all, they could make it so those big 12 man comp badasses can still just drop as 12 and fight equally skilled 12 man teams right? Oh, wait they tried that and lots of "CW people" didnt like it because they kept losing to the best teams.....

As i said....anyone can talk a good matchup. Some people aren't even that good outaide of a 12 man coordinated unit killing unresponsive PUGs.....its just the nature of the beast.

I just dont get why any discussion about it devloves into the same people raging about pugs and potatoes. Its just sad.

Actually it is 100% true if referring to the guys in KCom, MS, BCMC, EVIL, 228, and 54MR. There's probably a couple I left out. However I know the members of these groups and have been dropping with and against them for a couple of years now.

The behaviour is the exact opposite of what you are saying. TS is used often and unit leaders and members between these units communicate often.

Again you don't get better destroying people who lack even some of the fundamentals. Repeatedly avoiding fights would also erode a players skills over time and likely create really bad habits.

[Clementine]

I only drop solo ever in FP.

Death or Glory is the only way to fully appreciate what it means to be a Mechwarrior.

[General Solo]

50 50, on 14 November 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:

I'm at the point where I feel Faction Play needs to be groups only.
However, I would suggest going with a min/max of 4 for the groups to meet the requirements of forming a lance and taking up the spots in a drop ship etc.
One reason for this is to allow variable match sizes within an acceptable time frame which in itself would provide some variations to the game play.
It also allows any single group to get a scout drop so we can integrate scouting better.
We can also then take advantage of turning the system into a free for all by restricting groups to a single faction so we can then move to get some features and new options for each faction.

@OzHomerOz
With regards to having a casual mode with a respawn, seen in this thread as adding a solo queue to faction play, would it be that we simply need just a new mode added? ie. Like assault but with more bases and a respawn.
Or, is there a requirement in there to be involved in Faction Play because of loyalty points, the factions and 'lore' or something else?
If we were to barrack for a new quick play mode to be added that let us respawn, I believe that would be well worth pushing for.
It could be added to Faction Play, but it seems like that might be the approach we could take?

I appreciate your constructive comments.

As for whether the solo fun mode with respawns needs to be related to Faction Warfare.
That's a Good Question.

I just see a lot of non apex predators solo friends who'd like to do CW but are afraid of getting crushed all the time.
Thats why I'm here on this thread arguing points.

Why? Well maybe they like respawns, maybe they like FW, Maybe they like Meta Star Map, who knows. perhaps a survey is in order.

Personally I'd have no problem with a 15minute unlimited respawn Free for all mode with 24 mechs.
That would be fun in my view and has respawns.

Edit: Forgot the 24

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 15 November 2017 - 12:29 AM.

[General Solo]

TWIAFU, on 14 November 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

Solo CW is the very ANTITHESIS of the very primary design intent of CW, Group and Unit play, so yes, they should not play in CW.
Even the very warning message you failed to comprehend warns you CW is not for the unprepared, non team orientated players, ie, solo.

Yes FW is intended for group play - team play.
Then wot the hell are solo's doing there.
Obviously things didn't work out exactly as intended, similar to the road to hell thats is paved with good intenions.

Whats your answer? Put them in solo QP, well they DONT WANT TO QP because then they would be in QP and not Faction play and we would not be having this discussion.
You look Gr8 by the way

TWIAFU, on 14 November 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

Even the very warning message you failed to comprehend warns you CW is not for the unprepared, non team orientated players, ie, solo.

And yet they still come despite the warnings. They must really like faction play despite getting rekt all the time.

Put them in QP? Well they keep going to faction play, so it seems they dont want quick play.
Gr8 wots the answer?

If you could not forget to include respawns that would be Gr8.

TWIAFU, on 14 November 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

You want solo casual drops, great. They made a queue just for you, QP Solo. You want casual drops with a bit more teamwork, great! They made a queue for you, Group. They even made a Queue for those people that want teamwork heavy play with a lil bit of BT thrown in, CW.

No Respawns in Solo
Its what they want, I'm guessing because the solo's keep showing up to FW.
Give them an alternative thats not quick play and has respawns.

TWIAFU, on 14 November 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

I will and always have advocated for solo to not play CW, with exception for experienced and talented pilots. Majority of solo in CW are NOT that.

Aggreed, so if you can suggest an alternate thats not QP and has respawns that would be Gr8.

TWIAFU, on 14 November 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

In light of ending solo stomping, I've jumped on board with CW maps and modes in QP with no CW rewards for your casual fun happy happy joy joy fun time.

You want CW rewards, play CW. Casual fun happy happy joy joy fun time CW you are after does not need CW based rewards at all, make them normal QP rewards. It's casual fun, right?

MWO is not a zero sum economy, no need to rob Peter to pay Paul, yo get your doh.
So whats the problem or you just being Mean spirited?
Thats Gr8 isn't it.

TWIAFU, on 14 November 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

There you go, more are happy with your solo casual fun happy happy joy joy fun time QP safe place. No CW impact. No CW rewards. Just queue up for QP CW, Clan vs IS, and club away.

WOT
You worried that a bunch of solo unitless pugs will have a bigger impact on the FW map than units.
I don't think this is possible for anyone with positive stats, so that should not be a problem for you. Should it?

https://leaderboard.isengrim.org

Edit: Besides with FW being so popular, the unit version has to outnumber the solo version in population terms by at least 3 to 1 because their are so many units, right! So the units will have a bigger impact.
Cause thaats wot units want, to fight other units. No solo's wreaking ur push.

TWIAFU, on 14 November 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

Your forumwarrior-fu is weak as hell, that is the best you can do? Not even able to address a single point nor comment on proposed 'solution'. Your best is a comment on a 'like'?

Pathetic.

Try again.

I believe I answered all your concerns which is Gr8.

Thank you Plz come again

Comic

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 15 November 2017 - 12:36 AM.

[Reza Malin]

tker 669, on 14 November 2017 - 03:53 PM, said:

Actually it is 100% true if referring to the guys in KCom, MS, BCMC, EVIL, 228, and 54MR. There's probably a couple I left out. However I know the members of these groups and have been dropping with and against them for a couple of years now.

The behaviour is the exact opposite of what you are saying. TS is used often and unit leaders and members between these units communicate often.

Again you don't get better destroying people who lack even some of the fundamentals. Repeatedly avoiding fights would also erode a players skills over time and likely create really bad habits.

I understand how the game works and how people gain skill my friend. As i said previously, have played this game for 4 years.

You also just described the exact teams who i described in my previous comment. The ones who, if there was a dedicated 12 v 12 CW mode, would wreck everyone and the entire reason that mode does not exist. It would end up being those few teams, or combinations of from friends lists, constantly playing each other because everyone else would rage quit.

Which leads back to my previous point. MOST people dont want good games in CW, they want to go to town on less coordinated teams with all the best toys. Please note i said most, and not all. Anyone who has played any amount of CW with any unit other than the actual top tier ones you just listed, knows this, please be reasonable.

No average CW player drops in, looks at the scoreboard and says, "yay, its EVIL again". Fighting BCMC oe 228, is ridiculous even with an exceptional team as they are so accurate with coordinated fire, it is extremely difficult to win any trades.

These are the teams and players who are all in on this game and play it more than most. That is not a negative in any way, respect to them. It is an extremely difficult game and game mode to maintain an effective unit within, partly for reasons i described earlier and also because it can become repetitive. These are dedicated people.

Hence why less dedicated, average players, do not like fighting them. Those kind of people, they want to fight PUG groups and rack up thise sweet damage numbers where no one has to die first in a push with 200 dmg on the scoreboard at the end.

Lets be realistic here, meta gaming in MWO is extra boring, even compared to other metas. There are 100's of interesting chassis to use, whether always effective or not, and many weapon variations. In fact it has one of the best customisation options from any game. Yet to follow the meta you must ignore 99% of all that and play the same way each time.

Unless of course.......you play average teams. Then you can use whatever you like and still win......

[Jon Gotham]

OZHomerOZ, on 12 November 2017 - 01:20 PM, said:

Most replies have been from guiz in units.
Too bad moar solo's not in units haven't replied as I'm pretty sure they are the intended target audience of this thread.

Without Solo's you can make Faction Warfare Great again.
And build a wall around it.

And the solo's can have their own fun version.

<<solo.
Your of "fun" could be achieved with bots. For actual fun, you need people. Some of the other people like talking to other people.
Strange as that may be.

[General Solo]

Fun comes in many forms
I said that already.
Not everyones fun is the same.e Although they like to compete at their own level t0 have fun. OWN LEVEL

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 15 November 2017 - 01:20 AM.

[Clementine]

Please do not take away my ability to fight units with pugs.

The satisfaction of leading a successful War plan with a group of rag tags with nothing but sheer grit, will, and luck, is the most fun I have ever had. Not to mention how happy people are to win and experience it.

Even if you do not win, they are happy to of had a drop caller and actually have someone believe they can fight hard and win against all odds.

Honestly you do not know joy until you get the thank you's for pulling it off. I love this game.

*Plays pyre light reminiscing of battles fought and battles to come.

Edited by Clementine, 15 November 2017 - 02:35 AM.

[ANOM O MECH]

Reza Malin, on 14 November 2017 - 10:43 PM, said:

I understand how the game works and how people gain skill my friend. As i said previously, have played this game for 4 years.

You also just described the exact teams who i described in my previous comment. The ones who, if there was a dedicated 12 v 12 CW mode, would wreck everyone and the entire reason that mode does not exist. It would end up being those few teams, or combinations of from friends lists, constantly playing each other because everyone else would rage quit.

Which leads back to my previous point. MOST people dont want good games in CW, they want to go to town on less coordinated teams with all the best toys. Please note i said most, and not all. Anyone who has played any amount of CW with any unit other than the actual top tier ones you just listed, knows this, please be reasonable.

No average CW player drops in, looks at the scoreboard and says, "yay, its EVIL again". Fighting BCMC oe 228, is ridiculous even with an exceptional team as they are so accurate with coordinated fire, it is extremely difficult to win any trades.

These are the teams and players who are all in on this game and play it more than most. That is not a negative in any way, respect to them. It is an extremely difficult game and game mode to maintain an effective unit within, partly for reasons i described earlier and also because it can become repetitive. These are dedicated people.

Hence why less dedicated, average players, do not like fighting them. Those kind of people, they want to fight PUG groups and rack up thise sweet damage numbers where no one has to die first in a push with 200 dmg on the scoreboard at the end.

Lets be realistic here, meta gaming in MWO is extra boring, even compared to other metas. There are 100's of interesting chassis to use, whether always effective or not, and many weapon variations. In fact it has one of the best customisation options from any game. Yet to follow the meta you must ignore 99% of all that and play the same way each time.

Unless of course.......you play average teams. Then you can use whatever you like and still win......

Your amount of time playing this game is meaningless if you continue to say ignorant things. I know a good deal of the players from the teams I mentioned and you saying that they want to fight pugs is not only false but insulting. I am not sure of your past unit experience or which unit you were in that behaved the way you describe, but it isn't the guys I know and drop with every night that I play this game....

Again since I don't know you, and I am on the inside so to speak, I can say you don't know what you are talking about. You aren't over on Comstar poking around during NA primetime and clearly don't see the better teams trying to get fights with other teams. It is boring smashing pugs. Unit's start to lose guys if they don't get challenged.

So you can continue to try and talk about things that you know nothing about, or you can stop making assumptions and listen to the people who actually know what they are talking about and actually know the people being talked about.

Not trying to be insulting, or fight with you. Just it is not cool to say what you are saying about people you don't know and about something that you are not very involved with.

[MischiefSC]

There's a need to ascribe malice to the actions of others. This idea that if the other side beats you, they did it to *get you*.

The reality is that they were just playing the game and they prefer good matches to bad ones, but at this point most teams have had so many bad experiences with pug teams they have no reason to try and engage with them - just play the match, do what gets you cbills and move on, because the losing team will complain regardless.

Cuz teamwork is haxx and people only group up to farm pugs you know.

[Nightbird]

Think of how often QP ends up as 12-0,1,2,3. This is how often you will be farmed in Solo Queue FP, except more often because there is no MM.