183 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

OZHomerOZ, on 18 November 2017 - 02:42 PM, said:

You made it clear you need to take the time to read moar carefully, I can see it's not your forte, so please take your time

Otherwise this sounds like just moar spam.

Do you know what an ad hominem is? You can Google it or just look back at your post.

The problem seems to be that as I said, you just want to play casually and still win. You will always lose to people who try harder. If you play at the 45% mark, even if the top 40% of the game was removed you would still lose to the 46-60% players. They would get the same 2k+ matches against players at the 45% and lower level.

You've made it very clear in your argument that your problem isn't groups, it's people who are playing better at the game making it too hard to win if you consistently play poorly.

There's not a fix for that.

The other problem is that when people point out that you're wrong you try to respond with personal insults. Given that your position is indefensible I can sort of understand that, it's the only option you have. That doesn't change the reality of what you're talking about.

I'm all for people being able to play the whole FW set of maps, modes, etc. With the QP matchmaker and pug only. It wouldn't impact taking worlds or anything and doesn't get LP but they can Olay with the help of a matchmaker. I would just advise that the matchmaker won't really help because of pop limits if you don't mix Clan/IS o each side.

[General Solo]

MischiefSC, on 18 November 2017 - 04:48 PM, said:

Do you know what an ad hominem is? You can Google it or just look back at your post.
...........................mOAR Spam..................................................................

Plz read your own stuff.
I made my points clear yet you keep raising assumptions I apparently made, but did not.

ASSuME

Ad hominem, You use that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Finally to be clear I don't need a casual FW lobby to break 2000 damage solo in the regular FW.
This is not for me or about me.

Its for the pilots that want to play FW but dont cause they don't wanna be shark food or punished for being bad and not super uber elite and buy mech packs.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 18 November 2017 - 07:38 PM.

[MischiefSC]

OZHomerOZ, on 18 November 2017 - 07:33 PM, said:

Plz read your own stuff.
I made my points clear yet you keep raising assumptions I apparently made, but did not.

ASSuME

Ad hominem, You use that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Finally to be clear I don't need a casual FW lobby to break 2000 damage solo in the regular FW.
This is not for me or about me.

Its for the pilots that want to play FW but dont cause they don't wanna be shark food or punished for being bad and not super uber elite and buy mech packs.

Again, you're not making sense of what's actually being talked about. As has been said before, put the content in QP so people can play with a matchmaker. However due to population if you try to split it into Clan/IS sides you'll make the MM almost irrelevant. That means it'll still be full of players who are good enough to have matches play out like they already do and all but impossible to prevent sync drops, intentional or not.

An ad hominem is your repeated posts based around insults instead of actually addressing the points. This is a link to what an ad hominem is.

Here are quoted examples from your last two posts of ad hominem. Just because you don't seem to understand it.

Quote

...........................mOAR Spam............................................................

Quote

ASSuME

Quote

Its for the pilots that want to play FW but dont cause they don't wanna be shark food or punished for being bad and not super uber elite and buy mech packs.

Quote

You made it clear you need to take the time to read moar carefully, I can see it's not your forte, so please take your time

Otherwise this sounds like just moar spam.

Quote

this whole post

I get that you don't like having someone point out that you're wrong and your idea is bad. However trying to say it's 'spam' and say 'read moar [sic] carefully' when I gave a precise list of exactly why you are wrong, why your idea is bad and would fail is pretty much exactly what an argument ad hominem is.

I also pointed out that nobody is being 'punished for being bad'. If you're bad at a game you'll lose. That's not being punished any more than winning is being rewarded. Playing a PvP game has a binary outcome. Win/lose are the only two options. A punishment would be being banned, or fined extra cbills. A reward would be getting extra bonus cbills. Losing means you did not win and as such don't get the winning payout. This isn't a hard concept. I get the desire to try and paint people who lose as being victims (hence the term 'punished') but nobody is being victimized. I could post the actual definition of 'victim' for you but I'm hoping that's not necessary.

I'm not making any assumptions. An assumption would be to say 'you just don't like units because they beat you up in school'. That would be baseless, there's nothing to tie that to. An observation is saying 'You said "aybe you can't stop it but you can make it harder, say players who score more than X say 2000 damage or other some metric are classed as SMURFs (Add your own label) who get kicked up to Group FW as a solo for 5 games.

Once in the Big League do 500 or less 5 games in a row gets the player dropped back to Casual FW Queue.

NOTE: Metric can be tuned so don't go 2000 DAMAGE BLA SPEW SPAM PEW PING)

First it makes syncing harder, second it a natural gate for solo's to enter the Big league FW.
Thus only the guid solo's play wifd the big bois and the Casual FW Bois are some what protected."

That clearly, in your own words, identifies that you view the problem as people playing well and getting big scores. Sync dropping has nothing, at all, in any way or shape or form with what score you get. They're unrelated totally and completely. In fact most teams that play with teamwork tend to equalize their damage spread instead of one person scoring well. The only use, at all, for the system you're talking about is trying to separate good players from bad players.'

That's an observation. While it's possible that you don't actually know what you're writing or really thinking about any of it that would be an assumption. The reality is what you type, which is what I responded to.

TL;DR:

You're wrong.

Most of what you write is ad hominem. Look it up.

Your idea is terrible and several people have explained why and listed way better options that would actually work.

[TWIAFU]

Tarl Cabot, on 18 November 2017 - 03:57 PM, said:

Edited sorry TWIAFU, I edited it after you liking it. As for pugs wanting to play casually and win? There is a difference between having a chance of winning or losing most of the time vs being beaten to an being beaten into smithereens most of your drops. Without pugs the units and co-ops would have no one to fight. Tis possible many were not around when the group queue was only for 12-man only... now that was a ghost town...

I may or may not agree with your view, but a thought out and well presented point should be noted.

o7

With respect, CW is not a casual friendly environment, nor should it be. We have casual queues for derping around, play, have fun, run the LRM5 Javelins.

Yes, there is a difference in between having a chance to attain victory and not. We all know that and we all know how to increase those chances, especially within the confines of CW. You know that Tarl and so do I. Everyone with a pair of eyes, ability to read and comprehend the written word knows that.

Teamwork in the teamwork centered queue is key. Communication is key. It is not rocket science, just common sense and the fact we are told in the warning message, loading screens and game tips.

There are some amazingly good solo pilots out there and they work WITH the team/side they are dropping with. They use the exploit of teamwork and communication within the teamwork and communication heavy queue. They are the solo pilots the group players want.

They do NOT want that solo rambo off doing his own thing on the other side of the map. Sandbagging and using his "team" for his own gain. They do NOT want that solo rambo that retreats to the edge of map and camps there when he finally is under fire. Every single group player in CW knows exactly they type of player I speak of. It is that player that ruins it all for the rest of the solo player in the group queue.

If a pilot wants to drop solo in the deep end of the pool, pay attention to WTF your doing. Listen and pay attention to the DC, FOLLOW HIM/HER and the orders given. Period. Lead, follow, or power down and get the hell out of the way.

Stat padders and sandbaggers using the team for personal gain will be shot on sight.

[TWIAFU]

OZHomerOZ, on 18 November 2017 - 07:33 PM, said:

.
Its for the pilots that want to play FW but dont cause they don't wanna be shark food or punished for being bad and not super uber elite and buy mech packs

Yes, please READ.



Then they do NOT BELONG IN CW!

If they ignore the warning and do drop solo, not playing competitive, don't play as part of a team, don't utilize highly customized mechs and loadouts, or are not experienced or organized, do not have well-stocked or highly cutomized mech loadouts, brand new to MWO, and do not have a stock of four customized and familiar mechs, then they, and you, deserve what you signed up for.

And you signed up to get the crap clubbed out of you.

You want QP with respawn CW without teamwork, coordination.


Put remaining CW content in QP without the CW rewards.

[ANOM O MECH]

MischiefSC, on 18 November 2017 - 10:34 PM, said:

Again, you're not making sense of what's actually being talked about. As has been said before, put the content in QP so people can play with a matchmaker. However due to population if you try to split it into Clan/IS sides you'll make the MM almost irrelevant. That means it'll still be full of players who are good enough to have matches play out like they already do and all but impossible to prevent sync drops, intentional or not.

An ad hominem is your repeated posts based around insults instead of actually addressing the points. This is a link to what an ad hominem is.

Here are quoted examples from your last two posts of ad hominem. Just because you don't seem to understand it.













I get that you don't like having someone point out that you're wrong and your idea is bad. However trying to say it's 'spam' and say 'read moar [sic] carefully' when I gave a precise list of exactly why you are wrong, why your idea is bad and would fail is pretty much exactly what an argument ad hominem is.

I also pointed out that nobody is being 'punished for being bad'. If you're bad at a game you'll lose. That's not being punished any more than winning is being rewarded. Playing a PvP game has a binary outcome. Win/lose are the only two options. A punishment would be being banned, or fined extra cbills. A reward would be getting extra bonus cbills. Losing means you did not win and as such don't get the winning payout. This isn't a hard concept. I get the desire to try and paint people who lose as being victims (hence the term 'punished') but nobody is being victimized. I could post the actual definition of 'victim' for you but I'm hoping that's not necessary.

I'm not making any assumptions. An assumption would be to say 'you just don't like units because they beat you up in school'. That would be baseless, there's nothing to tie that to. An observation is saying 'You said "aybe you can't stop it but you can make it harder, say players who score more than X say 2000 damage or other some metric are classed as SMURFs (Add your own label) who get kicked up to Group FW as a solo for 5 games.

Once in the Big League do 500 or less 5 games in a row gets the player dropped back to Casual FW Queue.

NOTE: Metric can be tuned so don't go 2000 DAMAGE BLA SPEW SPAM PEW PING)

First it makes syncing harder, second it a natural gate for solo's to enter the Big league FW.
Thus only the guid solo's play wifd the big bois and the Casual FW Bois are some what protected."

That clearly, in your own words, identifies that you view the problem as people playing well and getting big scores. Sync dropping has nothing, at all, in any way or shape or form with what score you get. They're unrelated totally and completely. In fact most teams that play with teamwork tend to equalize their damage spread instead of one person scoring well. The only use, at all, for the system you're talking about is trying to separate good players from bad players.'

That's an observation. While it's possible that you don't actually know what you're writing or really thinking about any of it that would be an assumption. The reality is what you type, which is what I responded to.

TL;DR:

You're wrong.

Most of what you write is ad hominem. Look it up.

Your idea is terrible and several people have explained why and listed way better options that would actually work.

It's probably time to stop arguing with this guy. He's barely literate and seems to really struggle with what's being discussed and why 'moar fun' isn't an actual argument (he'd have to understand the concept of quantifiable which there is slight hope for).

[MischiefSC]

TWIAFU, on 19 November 2017 - 04:09 AM, said:

I may or may not agree with your view, but a thought out and well presented point should be noted.

o7

With respect, CW is not a casual friendly environment, nor should it be. We have casual queues for derping around, play, have fun, run the LRM5 Javelins.

Yes, there is a difference in between having a chance to attain victory and not. We all know that and we all know how to increase those chances, especially within the confines of CW. You know that Tarl and so do I. Everyone with a pair of eyes, ability to read and comprehend the written word knows that.

Teamwork in the teamwork centered queue is key. Communication is key. It is not rocket science, just common sense and the fact we are told in the warning message, loading screens and game tips.

There are some amazingly good solo pilots out there and they work WITH the team/side they are dropping with. They use the exploit of teamwork and communication within the teamwork and communication heavy queue. They are the solo pilots the group players want.

They do NOT want that solo rambo off doing his own thing on the other side of the map. Sandbagging and using his "team" for his own gain. They do NOT want that solo rambo that retreats to the edge of map and camps there when he finally is under fire. Every single group player in CW knows exactly they type of player I speak of. It is that player that ruins it all for the rest of the solo player in the group queue.

If a pilot wants to drop solo in the deep end of the pool, pay attention to WTF your doing. Listen and pay attention to the DC, FOLLOW HIM/HER and the orders given. Period. Lead, follow, or power down and get the hell out of the way.

Stat padders and sandbaggers using the team for personal gain will be shot on sight.

So the problem though is that for the exact same reason that 12-1 rolls in QP happen all the time they would happen with pug only matches in FW just as often. Even more to the point a queue for pugs that anyone who already plays in units and is pretty good would drive a lot of rolls.

It's not going to help casuals win. It's not even going to make their getting stomped less stompy. People really want to think that if "The Man" wasn't keeping them down they would be rockstars. That's just not the case. The team putting in the best effort with the best deck is going to win and due to respawns that's going to often turn in to a spawn camping stomp. I've pugged a ton of matches in FW that ended with a spawn camp in pug teams.

There's not really a change you can make that's going to involve someone doing the same thing they're doing but winning more -

Other than going into a true QP environment with a matchmaker, which is going to need mixed IS/Clan teams for even meager MM efficiency.

[TWIAFU]

MischiefSC, on 19 November 2017 - 07:59 AM, said:

So the problem though is that for the exact same reason that 12-1 rolls in QP happen all the time they would happen with pug only matches in FW just as often. Even more to the point a queue for pugs that anyone who already plays in units and is pretty good would drive a lot of rolls.

It's not going to help casuals win. It's not even going to make their getting stomped less stompy. People really want to think that if "The Man" wasn't keeping them down they would be rockstars. That's just not the case. The team putting in the best effort with the best deck is going to win and due to respawns that's going to often turn in to a spawn camping stomp. I've pugged a ton of matches in FW that ended with a spawn camp in pug teams.

There's not really a change you can make that's going to involve someone doing the same thing they're doing but winning more -

Other than going into a true QP environment with a matchmaker, which is going to need mixed IS/Clan teams for even meager MM efficiency.

First off, been a jot to read your thoughts on this MsC. Been able to keep a level head far better then I...

/respect.

There are no easy answers here. Only real "easy" answer is to not let solo, good or bad solo skills, not into the group queue but to put CW modes into QP without the rewards.

Teamwork players will play and use teamwork in the teamwork queue. Solo will not as history shows all of us over and over. Solo and team/group players should never mix, they should not play together or against each other.

[Tarl Cabot]

TWIAFU, on 19 November 2017 - 08:26 AM, said:

First off, been a jot to read your thoughts on this MsC. Been able to keep a level head far better then I...

/respect.

There are no easy answers here. Only real "easy" answer is to not let solo, good or bad solo skills, not into the group queue but to put CW modes into QP without the rewards.

Teamwork players will play and use teamwork in the teamwork queue. Solo will not as history shows all of us over and over. Solo and team/group players should never mix, they should not play together or against each other.

So, put CW modes (respawn) into QP, which of course would allow mixed teams.

But the real question would be, what effect would that have on FP, seriously? Pugs, good or bad, would appear to be the lifeline for FP, or will FP end up becoming the ghost town Group queue became when it only allowed 12-man while max 4-man dropped in the primary (solo) queue, at times sync dropping? Remember, there is no advertisement, no real notifications that xxx-units are forming up/waiting for drops/etc, no rolling bulletin boards/tickers. And the real question though, how would that fare across different time zones?

(nods) Correct, there are no easy answers and no immediate nor simple "fix". Of course, the real issue is that FP is only a shadow if what it could have been, never mind the missteps PGI has had with what little there is, which leading to several reasons why many units have bailed/disbanded/etc or its unit members are no longer participating in PGI FP.

For those of us who have played and worked together, either as part of a unit itself, or as a pug dropping with another unit/co-op, or even when it is all pugs, that with the communication, working together and mech synergy that may well have been a co-op (formed before drop), have experienced how those setups differentiate from drops where it is a casual team/co-op with no real mech synergy with no real communication or mostly pugs playing passively, unwilling to work together.

There is no real way to completely separate the different sides without killing the mode itself, or people trying to bypass any gateway setup. Unknown the amount of work involved but one way though would be to set priority for units/co-ops of 6+ (number vary) to seek each other out, using solos to fill the gaps before release valves open to fill the rest up with solos. During that time solos fill up their own queue setup. So basically a MM based on unit/co-op side before valves are opened up. Add flags to prevent smaller unit groups from dropping in the same match without an extreme valve release.

Pugs will still lose to other Pugs with much being dependent on constitution of the pugs, passive vs aggressive, communicate and cooperation or the lack thereof, etc.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 19 November 2017 - 09:18 AM.

[ccrider]

We have just taken a different stance on playing against full pug teams; we treat wave 1 like they are a mixed group on TS. If they are competent, we play seriously. If it's clear they are disorganized, we just go full ham. It makes matches closer, gives the enemy a reason to queue back up and to be quite honest, some of the funniest **** gets said in TS when we go full derp. Keeps everyone on both sides having fun and as IS we get matches against good units often enough that the occasional ability to play completely goofy once in awhile is actually refreshing. Not advocating for anyone else to do it, but it has been good on our end. Long as we win more than we lose, I don't mind telling the guys in TS to just have at it and ignore coordination once in awhile. If I did, I'd miss out on pure gold like having my own unit arty my dropzone as my urbie gets offloaded.

Edited by ccrider, 19 November 2017 - 09:39 AM.

[November Juliet]

OZHomerOZ, on 08 November 2017 - 03:16 AM, said:

Keep your dying game mode out of quick play...
We don't need it or you want to kill QP as well.
In Quik play real mech pilots play solo vs solo and group vs group, go seal club else wear.

Lol at this. One night evil dropped 12 trial mechs into quick play and won ever match no less than 12 to 4 against organized teams. Quick play is for those who can’t faction play.

[TWIAFU]

Tarl Cabot, on 19 November 2017 - 09:14 AM, said:

So, put CW modes (respawn) into QP, which of course would allow mixed teams.

But the real question would be, what effect would that have on FP, seriously? Pugs, good or bad, would appear to be the lifeline for FP, or will FP end up becoming the ghost town Group queue became when it only allowed 12-man while max 4-man dropped in the primary (solo) queue, at times sync dropping? Remember, there is no advertisement, no real notifications that xxx-units are forming up/waiting for drops/etc, no rolling bulletin boards/tickers. And the real question though, how would that fare across different time zones?

(nods) Correct, there are no easy answers and no immediate nor simple "fix". Of course, the real issue is that FP is only a shadow if what it could have been, never mind the missteps PGI has had with what little there is, which leading to several reasons why many units have bailed/disbanded/etc or its unit members are no longer participating in PGI FP.

For those of us who have played and worked together, either as part of a unit itself, or as a pug dropping with another unit/co-op, or even when it is all pugs, that with the communication, working together and mech synergy that may well have been a co-op (formed before drop), have experienced how those setups differentiate from drops where it is a casual team/co-op with no real mech synergy with no real communication or mostly pugs playing passively, unwilling to work together.

There is no real way to completely separate the different sides without killing the mode itself, or people trying to bypass any gateway setup. Unknown the amount of work involved but one way though would be to set priority for units/co-ops of 6+ (number vary) to seek each other out, using solos to fill the gaps before release valves open to fill the rest up with solos. During that time solos fill up their own queue setup. So basically a MM based on unit/co-op side before valves are opened up. Add flags to prevent smaller unit groups from dropping in the same match without an extreme valve release.

Pugs will still lose to other Pugs with much being dependent on constitution of the pugs, passive vs aggressive, communicate and cooperation or the lack thereof, etc.

No idea how it would effect CW. We could back to when there was a Unit and Unitless Queue for how things would go.

We all seem to find an 'answer' and another problem crops up...


Maybe solo pilots queue for CW should be held in a "pre-queue" where they are setup into a Group, the game puts them into a 12man. Then it is upon them, as a group, to play as a group against other groups.

Eliminate the solo part of the three part CW MM, make it 12 v 12 or 12 vs skirmish. Remove the PUG side and make them a group.

That way that Group is more likely to face other Groups.

Trying to find and answer where we use the current CW MM and eliminate the abily of clubbing.

[General Solo]

MischiefSC, on 18 November 2017 - 10:34 PM, said:

Again, you're not making sense of what's actually being talked about. As has been said before, put the content in QP so people can play with a matchmaker. However due to population if you try to split it into Clan/IS sides you'll make the MM almost irrelevant. That means it'll still be full of players who are good enough to have matches play out like they already do and all but impossible to prevent sync drops, intentional or not.

An ad hominem is your repeated posts based around insults instead of actually addressing the points. This is a link to what an ad hominem is.

Here are quoted examples from your last two posts of ad hominem. Just because you don't seem to understand it.













I get that you don't like having someone point out that you're wrong and your idea is bad. However trying to say it's 'spam' and say 'read moar [sic] carefully' when I gave a precise list of exactly why you are wrong, why your idea is bad and would fail is pretty much exactly what an argument ad hominem is.

I also pointed out that nobody is being 'punished for being bad'. If you're bad at a game you'll lose. That's not being punished any more than winning is being rewarded. Playing a PvP game has a binary outcome. Win/lose are the only two options. A punishment would be being banned, or fined extra cbills. A reward would be getting extra bonus cbills. Losing means you did not win and as such don't get the winning payout. This isn't a hard concept. I get the desire to try and paint people who lose as being victims (hence the term 'punished') but nobody is being victimized. I could post the actual definition of 'victim' for you but I'm hoping that's not necessary.

I'm not making any assumptions. An assumption would be to say 'you just don't like units because they beat you up in school'. That would be baseless, there's nothing to tie that to. An observation is saying 'You said "aybe you can't stop it but you can make it harder, say players who score more than X say 2000 damage or other some metric are classed as SMURFs (Add your own label) who get kicked up to Group FW as a solo for 5 games.

Once in the Big League do 500 or less 5 games in a row gets the player dropped back to Casual FW Queue.

NOTE: Metric can be tuned so don't go 2000 DAMAGE BLA SPEW SPAM PEW PING)

First it makes syncing harder, second it a natural gate for solo's to enter the Big league FW.
Thus only the guid solo's play wifd the big bois and the Casual FW Bois are some what protected."

That clearly, in your own words, identifies that you view the problem as people playing well and getting big scores. Sync dropping has nothing, at all, in any way or shape or form with what score you get. They're unrelated totally and completely. In fact most teams that play with teamwork tend to equalize their damage spread instead of one person scoring well. The only use, at all, for the system you're talking about is trying to separate good players from bad players.'

That's an observation. While it's possible that you don't actually know what you're writing or really thinking about any of it that would be an assumption. The reality is what you type, which is what I responded to.

TL;DR:

You're wrong.

Most of what you write is ad hominem. Look it up.

Your idea is terrible and several people have explained why and listed way better options that would actually work.

Its clear this thread no longer has a purpose apart from training some folks to be better trolls.
As punishment for being poor trolls, class is dismissed.

Cya on the battlefield

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 19 November 2017 - 01:55 PM.

[naterist]

TWIAFU, on 18 November 2017 - 04:22 PM, said:

It is a game, a game with defined area's for specific playstyles are supported and encouraged.

They should not mix.

id agree with you on that, but heres the rub, they did it in the wrong order. qp gives nothing to people who wanna play because of their love of the battletech universe. fw does give several nods, no matter how minor, to the fictional universe. in addition, the idea of quickplay being quick, but you gotta wait for a mm to find you a group? lol.

it would be so much more logical if fw was designed around people trying to get in and play, with all the blocks that solo qp has to keep newbs and idiots segregated from the meta, so they can enjoy the battletech universe. then the leftover group who adores the meta and couldnt give a rats *** about battletech can get a chance to go into qp, which wouldnt have a mm, and instantly drop with the first 24 guys online. key there is it would be quick, as the name quickplay implies.



its way to late to go back and undo that cluster ****, 6 or so years in as it is, but its what i think wouldve been more functional and make more sense.

[Tarl Cabot]

The sad thing is, I do not believe PGI is going to put too much energy into FP, but what are they willing and able to do atm?

1. Show percentage of population currently in queue or in drops but keep Siege and Scout their own percentages.. Clan 60% - IS 40%. Lets say it is at a time where hardly anyone is dropping... Clan +% (for less than a 12/4) -- IS 0% (no one is queued up) or Clan +% -- IS 100% (at least a full team ready to drop, could increase it to show full group and partials forming up).

2. More usage of the ticker banner.. have more than one banner. We have the Call to Arms, but I wonder how many have turned that off.

Anything else after that... we can only dream...no matter how loud the screaming and kicking gets....

[TWIAFU]

naterist, on 19 November 2017 - 01:55 PM, said:

id agree with you on that, but heres the rub, they did it in the wrong order. qp gives nothing to people who wanna play because of their love of the battletech universe. fw does give several nods, no matter how minor, to the fictional universe. in addition, the idea of quickplay being quick, but you gotta wait for a mm to find you a group? lol.

it would be so much more logical if fw was designed around people trying to get in and play, with all the blocks that solo qp has to keep newbs and idiots segregated from the meta, so they can enjoy the battletech universe. then the leftover group who adores the meta and couldnt give a rats *** about battletech can get a chance to go into qp, which wouldnt have a mm, and instantly drop with the first 24 guys online. key there is it would be quick, as the name quickplay implies.



its way to late to go back and undo that cluster ****, 6 or so years in as it is, but its what i think wouldve been more functional and make more sense.

Hindsight is 20/20. I, like nearly every CW player, wants the CW that we all dreamed about. To bad we won't see it.

I, honestly, don't care about QP. Hate it. Needs to die in a fire.

I care about CW and the teamwork environment it has. I care about dropping with my friends as IS and fighting Clans for the Inner Sphere.

The only block to CW is a warning message that is routinely ignored for whatever reason. That is not cutting it.

There MUST be a stronger barrier to prevent players from entering CW until they are ready.

Nobody, NO ONE, can honestly tell me that some 'new player' we all seem to be so damn worried about, has any place within CW, until they are ready.

It is time for PGI to 'enforce' the warning in some way. They must do soemthing to stop these players from entering CW and getting the crap clubbed out of them. Clearly they cannot make that choice themselves so someone has to make it for them.

[naterist]

TWIAFU, on 19 November 2017 - 03:58 PM, said:

Hindsight is 20/20. I, like nearly every CW player, wants the CW that we all dreamed about. To bad we won't see it.

I, honestly, don't care about QP. Hate it. Needs to die in a fire.

I care about CW and the teamwork environment it has. I care about dropping with my friends as IS and fighting Clans for the Inner Sphere.

The only block to CW is a warning message that is routinely ignored for whatever reason. That is not cutting it.

There MUST be a stronger barrier to prevent players from entering CW until they are ready.

Nobody, NO ONE, can honestly tell me that some 'new player' we all seem to be so damn worried about, has any place within CW, until they are ready.

It is time for PGI to 'enforce' the warning in some way. They must do soemthing to stop these players from entering CW and getting the crap clubbed out of them. Clearly they cannot make that choice themselves so someone has to make it for them.

ya, sounds good to me.

[Reza Malin]

November Juliet, on 19 November 2017 - 10:04 AM, said:

Lol at this. One night evil dropped 12 trial mechs into quick play and won ever match no less than 12 to 4 against organized teams. Quick play is for those who can’t faction play.

Key words here being EVIL and quick play.

EVIL because they are very good, and one of the best teams at annihilating PUG players.

Quick play because I am not sure if you mean they sync dropped together, or they went in solo.

Regardless, either version proves no real point other than some of the attitudes here are more student than adult.

Quick play is not a place for any one type of player, same as FW is not a place for any one type of player. It is just full of pilots with different attitudes and opinions. These attitudes and opinions shape the experience.

A lot of PUG players, do not have the knowledge or experience to play correctly in FP. Some very small number of PUG players do have the experience, but just don't care. There are douchebags in every game mode however.

Just like many regular pilots, are more concerned with raining poop on "bads", "potatoes" and a myriad of other edgy student soundbites, in order to sound cool on forums and reddit.

Case in point: Your comment. I bet if you were in a quickplay match against EVIL, you would get just as shat on as everyone else.

The fact is, as Tarl said earlier, whether good or bad, PUGs are essential to the FP game mode. Without them, the same few teams of elitists would be smashing each other in boring meta builds, over and over. With that many egos around (looking at you NA), it would self implode in no time.

Just like when the 12v12 mode was a reality and it failed miserably. If someone can give me a legitimate reason why 12v12 failed I would love to hear one that doesn't involve good players getting beaten by better players and not liking it.

Every unit has players that love the challenege. But every unit has the players that hide in the wings and really love to ride the waves and play the pilots that are on less coordinated teams.

Points about "ComStar" pilots all seeking each other on TS and playing together not withstanding. For every unit pilot that wants to find a better challenge and play the top teams, there are always 2 more from the same unit (bar the top tier units) that don't, won't go on TS, and won't play if they have to play top units all the time.

On the opposite side, you get PUG players who have no consideration for the game mode and their fellow pilots experience. They will continue to play how they want, instead of tailoring their attitude to at least play effectively, even if it isn't fully "meta". Some PUG's just do not get it. I do not think it is a majority though.

I am not commenting here because I think there is a solution. There is no solution that works for everyone. This argument has perpetuated since FP began in the beta, and will continue to do so for eternity.

It is because neither side will change.

Average and inexperienced PUG players either do not want to be part of a unit or TS, and do not understand where to learn about much of the intricacy of playing MWO (I often think older players seriously underestimate how hard it is to learn and get good at this game if you start from scratch, especially now with clans and 4x the number of mechs as when say I started out and there was few mechs and they were all IS).

Competitive and regular CW players, find it easier to just label everyone not on their NA TS, as potatoes and make threads laughing at them. Often throwing the "save all" line in about how they tried that one time to talk to some PUG's in a CW match, who didn't listen and so they gave up and from that point on wrote off any discussion about PUG players or their opinions.

Despite them featuring heavily in all game modes. I mean just look at QP, there are orders of magnitude more QP players than FP players. If FP could tap into the QP pool, it would be flying.

However, the last facet of this issue, is as Tarl said, a lot of the blame has to fall on PGI for failing to get a handle on the FP mode in general, much earlier. Now it is already a large snowball, with Wile E Coyote's hands and feet firmly protruding from it.

People's opinions are so firmly entrenched only PGI can alter it by revamping the mode. Until then, these threads and arguments will continue, and continue to achieve nothing but more negativity.

Edited by Reza Malin, 20 November 2017 - 03:42 AM.

[TWIAFU]

OZHomerOZ, on 19 November 2017 - 01:54 PM, said:

Its clear this thread no longer has a purpose apart from training some folks to be better trolls.
As punishment for being poor trolls, class is dismissed.

Cya on the battlefield

And another helpful reply to an actual discussion and debate between adults.

And no, you won't meet us on the battlefield, as we play CW.

[ANOM O MECH]

Reza Malin, on 20 November 2017 - 03:36 AM, said:

Key words here being EVIL and quick play.

EVIL because they are very good, and one of the best teams at annihilating PUG players.

Quick play because I am not sure if you mean they sync dropped together, or they went in solo.

Regardless, either version proves no real point other than some of the attitudes here are more student than adult.

Quick play is not a place for any one type of player, same as FW is not a place for any one type of player. It is just full of pilots with different attitudes and opinions. These attitudes and opinions shape the experience.

A lot of PUG players, do not have the knowledge or experience to play correctly in FP. Some very small number of PUG players do have the experience, but just don't care. There are douchebags in every game mode however.

Just like many regular pilots, are more concerned with raining poop on "bads", "potatoes" and a myriad of other edgy student soundbites, in order to sound cool on forums and reddit.

Case in point: Your comment. I bet if you were in a quickplay match against EVIL, you would get just as shat on as everyone else.

The fact is, as Tarl said earlier, whether good or bad, PUGs are essential to the FP game mode. Without them, the same few teams of elitists would be smashing each other in boring meta builds, over and over. With that many egos around (looking at you NA), it would self implode in no time.

Just like when the 12v12 mode was a reality and it failed miserably. If someone can give me a legitimate reason why 12v12 failed I would love to hear one that doesn't involve good players getting beaten by better players and not liking it.

Every unit has players that love the challenege. But every unit has the players that hide in the wings and really love to ride the waves and play the pilots that are on less coordinated teams.

Points about "ComStar" pilots all seeking each other on TS and playing together not withstanding. For every unit pilot that wants to find a better challenge and play the top teams, there are always 2 more from the same unit (bar the top tier units) that don't, won't go on TS, and won't play if they have to play top units all the time.

On the opposite side, you get PUG players who have no consideration for the game mode and their fellow pilots experience. They will continue to play how they want, instead of tailoring their attitude to at least play effectively, even if it isn't fully "meta". Some PUG's just do not get it. I do not think it is a majority though.

I am not commenting here because I think there is a solution. There is no solution that works for everyone. This argument has perpetuated since FP began in the beta, and will continue to do so for eternity.

It is because neither side will change.

Average and inexperienced PUG players either do not want to be part of a unit or TS, and do not understand where to learn about much of the intricacy of playing MWO (I often think older players seriously underestimate how hard it is to learn and get good at this game if you start from scratch, especially now with clans and 4x the number of mechs as when say I started out and there was few mechs and they were all IS).

Competitive and regular CW players, find it easier to just label everyone not on their NA TS, as potatoes and make threads laughing at them. Often throwing the "save all" line in about how they tried that one time to talk to some PUG's in a CW match, who didn't listen and so they gave up and from that point on wrote off any discussion about PUG players or their opinions.

Despite them featuring heavily in all game modes. I mean just look at QP, there are orders of magnitude more QP players than FP players. If FP could tap into the QP pool, it would be flying.

However, the last facet of this issue, is as Tarl said, a lot of the blame has to fall on PGI for failing to get a handle on the FP mode in general, much earlier. Now it is already a large snowball, with Wile E Coyote's hands and feet firmly protruding from it.

People's opinions are so firmly entrenched only PGI can alter it by revamping the mode. Until then, these threads and arguments will continue, and continue to achieve nothing but more negativity.

Yes there are units that avoid fighting certain units. There are also units that crush objectives, even against pugs which puts people off due to wait times. There are all kinds of shenanigans going on just as there is with any game.

However there are also guys who are in good and respected units that drop solo all of the time. There's actually a guy from MS right now dropping solo looking for people who want to learn. Will it be for everyone? No, but there's folks out there doing what they can to help people. It's human nature.

What is my point? Point is that CW is not the cesspool that people seem to make it out to be.

Is it new player friendly? Not really. Mode is really dependant on experience as much as teamwork.... there are however tons of resources for people who want them. There's also room for those who want to go it alone. It is just really difficult to so and be very successful.

So it isn't like the entire community is bad. The brown sea on the forums is where people vent and certainly no one seems to bring up or discuss the positive aspects and the many, many decent folks that one could meet playing CW.