183 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Reza Malin, on 20 November 2017 - 03:36 AM, said:

The fact is, as Tarl said earlier, whether good or bad, PUGs are essential to the FP game mode. Without them, the same few teams of elitists would be smashing each other in boring meta builds, over and over. With that many egos around (looking at you NA), it would self implode in no time.

To speak to this point -

Not true. FW ran for about 18 months on units. That's when FW was full of people and fun. The solution to fixing FW is to add the depth of content, purpose and function that drew the units originally.

To make FW focused on pugs and having it be 'fun' for people to play just like it's QP is to just close FW and have it be new maps/modes in QP.

FW as a concept is about factions fighting to take planets. Your faction winning > your personal end of match score. You build your strength as a faction, not just as a player or a team. That's what drew everyone originally.

In the beginning there were 8+ teams of 500+ players. Davion TS had rows and rows of 12mans running 24x7. Not all the same unit either; because everyone understood that FW was about groups and teamwork. You got on TS and you got in a room and you dropped in a premade group. Some people pugged but the understanding was that pugs were there to fill in for teams, you were playing at a huge disadvantage if you really, really didn't put the effort in to play to your team.

That mentality, that environment, is FW. Without that approach to it you're just saying we need the new maps/modes and LP rewards for QP.

[Mochyn Pupur]

PFC Carsten, on 04 November 2017 - 02:56 PM, said:

Just shut down FP for Solos and small units. Everyone participating should at least be a member of a unit with minimum 12 players. If they are not all available at every time, ok, field a lance. If not, get social, grow more friends. No entry for solo players or one-man units.

That would really show, what FaP's being worth for the units who got gud.

An excellent attitude to take . . you can't play CW/FW; sorry can't join us - want to learn to play CW/FW; sorry can't do that because you're not in a big unit - in fact, go away, don't learn to play full stop, it's "our ball" and you can't play with it!

Yes, look to yourself and that kind of attitude as the pervasive game killer that's spreading through the Community.

[naterist]

PeppaPig, on 20 November 2017 - 01:07 PM, said:

An excellent attitude to take . . you can't play CW/FW; sorry can't join us - want to learn to play CW/FW; sorry can't do that because you're not in a big unit - in fact, go away, don't learn to play full stop, it's "our ball" and you can't play with it!

Yes, look to yourself and that kind of attitude as the pervasive game killer that's spreading through the Community.

just nix the 12mans of pugs. dont let a team have pugs unless those pugs are acting as filler for a group in fw. 12 pugs= bad, 4 pugs and a 8 man= less bad.

[Mochyn Pupur]

Reading through most of these posts seems to reaffirm the current position of the game. Falling player base, new players trying to be excluded from the full game by the "old guard" who want the game to run as "they" want. It's an unsustainable model and attitude and has nothing to do with PGI, only the players themselves.

Play to win, of course, that is the point of FW and QP, just don't alienate yourselves and the potential player base by forever examining your list of achievements and sheer awesomeness . . . . remember, you were that player years ago who you have just put off playing, just that you had more opportunity to get better due to a significantly greater player base and the opportunity to get better over time. Without fun, their are no players; with no players, there is no game . . . figure it out for yourselves.

naterist, on 20 November 2017 - 01:10 PM, said:

just nix the 12mans of pugs. dont let a team have pugs unless those pugs are acting as filler for a group in fw. 12 pugs= bad, 4 pugs and a 8 man= less bad.

Now that's a decent attitude to take, wish there were more like you.

[TWIAFU]

PeppaPig, on 20 November 2017 - 01:22 PM, said:

Reading through most of these posts seems to reaffirm the current position of the game. Falling player base, new players trying to be excluded from the full game by the "old guard" who want the game to run as "they" want. It's an unsustainable model and attitude and has nothing to do with PGI, only the players themselves.

Play to win, of course, that is the point of FW and QP, just don't alienate yourselves and the potential player base by forever examining your list of achievements and sheer awesomeness . . . . remember, you were that player years ago who you have just put off playing, just that you had more opportunity to get better due to a significantly greater player base and the opportunity to get better over time. Without fun, their are no players; with no players, there is no game . . . figure it out for yourselves.



Now that's a decent attitude to take, wish there were more like you.

And you completely missed the point.

[Tarl Cabot]

Quote

The fact is, as Tarl said earlier, whether good or bad, PUGs are essential to the FP game mode. Without them, the same few teams of elitists would be smashing each other in boring meta builds, over and over. With that many egos around (looking at you NA), it would self implode in no time.

Though I liked your post, this one item I needed to contest this point. There used to be lots of units/co-ops when CW started in Dec 2014. Most pugs were actually simply filler while others hit the Teamspeak servers (Comstar TSs were busy) since the current in-game VOIP did not go live til Feb 2015, and there definitely was no primitive lobby PGI has added a while ago.

But nowadays those FP units are inactive or gone. Nor are there enough active units to be smashing each other regularly most hours of the clock, different timezones/etc. Look at the FP stat page, many of those "units" are single or very small number units, and based by the intel points many drop primarily in Scouting or hook up with other units before going into FP. But there is still not enough to overcome the deficient, thus permanently separating soloists and unit/co-op would not really be the answer.

Honestly I do not see PGI making any further major changes to FP as it is in maintenance mode, and it is definitely not the centerpiece of MWO. And right now those of us who are left are not able to get on the same page on what minor changes to make, even if PGI would work with it, then it would take forever to implement it. Look at how long PGI kept Long Tom active even when most were in agreement it needed MAJOR changes or just be gone long before anything was done with it.

I am thankful that PGI brought us MWO, sadly this is about the only IP I have been hooked on. Unfortunately there has been some serious missteps in the handling of the game which I am not sure can be recovered with the current leadership.

ugghh... I thought I had posted this several hours ago... /smacks self...

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 21 November 2017 - 05:18 AM.

[naterist]

Tarl Cabot, on 20 November 2017 - 01:40 PM, said:

Though I liked your post, this one item I needed to contest this point. There used to be lots of units/co-ops when CW started in Dec 2014. Most pugs were actually simply filler while others hit the Teamspeak servers (Comstar TSs were busy) since the current in-game VOIP did not go live til Feb 2015 and there definitely not the primitive lobby PGI has added.

But nowadays those FP units are inactive or gone. Nor are there enough active units to be smashing each other regularly most hours of the clock, different timezones/etc. Look at the FP stat page, many of those "units" are single or very small number units, and based by the intel points drop primarily in Scouting or hook up with other units before going into FP. But still not enough to overcome the deficient, thus permanently separating soloists and unit/co-op would not really not the answer.

Honestly I do not see PGI making any further major changes to FP as it is in maintenance mode, and it is definitely not the centerpiece of MWO. And right now those of us who are left are not able to get on the same page on what minor changes to make even if PGI would work with it then it would take forever to implement it. Look at how long PGI kept Long Tom active even when most were in agreement it needed MAJOR changes or just be gone.

I am thankful that PGI brought us MWO, sadly this is about the only IP I have been hooked on. Unfortunately there has been some serious missteps in the handling of the game which I am not sure can be recovered with the current leadership.

ugghh... I thought I had posted this several hours ago... /smacks self...

can we just agree they need a single dude with a vision and the authority to make it happen

[General Solo]

TWIAFU, on 20 November 2017 - 04:13 AM, said:

And another helpful reply to an actual discussion and debate between adults.

And no, you won't meet us on the battlefield, as we play CW.

[Johnathan Tanner]

naterist, on 20 November 2017 - 01:43 PM, said:

can we just agree they need a single dude with a vision and the authority to make it happen

Lol

[naterist]

Johnathan Tanner, on 20 November 2017 - 08:55 PM, said:

Lol

someone not named russ bullock i mean.

[Johnathan Tanner]

naterist, on 20 November 2017 - 09:15 PM, said:

someone not named russ bullock i mean.

Of all the ideas and scenarios ive heard pitched in these forums, That is the only one that can be considered totally impossible. Which sucks cuz it is the best one as well.

[MischiefSC]

PeppaPig, on 20 November 2017 - 01:22 PM, said:

Reading through most of these posts seems to reaffirm the current position of the game. Falling player base, new players trying to be excluded from the full game by the "old guard" who want the game to run as "they" want. It's an unsustainable model and attitude and has nothing to do with PGI, only the players themselves.

Play to win, of course, that is the point of FW and QP, just don't alienate yourselves and the potential player base by forever examining your list of achievements and sheer awesomeness . . . . remember, you were that player years ago who you have just put off playing, just that you had more opportunity to get better due to a significantly greater player base and the opportunity to get better over time. Without fun, their are no players; with no players, there is no game . . . figure it out for yourselves.



Now that's a decent attitude to take, wish there were more like you.

Here's the thing.

There was a time when your attitude was the great majority of pugs.

That time is long gone.

So the bigger question becomes, how do we keep players who are in FW with an expectation of playing in a group environment able to play be it pug or premade while helping keep new players who are absolutely not ready and people who just want casual QP but with LP rewards out until they're in a better position to play and have fun themselves and be fun for everyone else to play with?

Do we say a lobby has to be built around two premades of any size, so you can't have 12 pugs?

I'm tempted to say that's minor enough that it might possibly even happen.

[Mochyn Pupur]

TWIAFU, on 20 November 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:

And you completely missed the point.

Nope, you just need to take your rose tinted glasses off to see the real picture . . .

MischiefSC, on 21 November 2017 - 02:03 AM, said:

Here's the thing.

There was a time when your attitude was the great majority of pugs.

That time is long gone.

So the bigger question becomes, how do we keep players who are in FW with an expectation of playing in a group environment able to play be it pug or premade while helping keep new players who are absolutely not ready and people who just want casual QP but with LP rewards out until they're in a better position to play and have fun themselves and be fun for everyone else to play with?

Do we say a lobby has to be built around two premades of any size, so you can't have 12 pugs?

I'm tempted to say that's minor enough that it might possibly even happen.

Now, again, a more reasoned approach begins to shine forth - supporting the up and coming CW players rather than exclude has to be the way.

[naterist]

PeppaPig, on 21 November 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

Nope, you just need to take your rose tinted glasses off to see the real picture . . .



Now, again, a more reasoned approach begins to shine forth - supporting the up and coming CW players rather than exclude has to be the way.

helping them is the way, but we need to keep in mind that pugs need to be considered a "stepping off point" if you will, for someone who is in between new player whos still getting the hang of things, and someone who is rockin a big unit and cleaning house. pugs cant be the main population, they need to be herded into a position were they can look at unit options, and after a hopefully short period of time, they get to the point were their either starting their own unit, joining an existing one, or moving on from the mode.

if we set that as our goal, then solutions are doable.

i think the grouping up and finding a lobby in fw system needs to be synonymous. bring em together, and add the tools needed for people to find groups without going through a library of 100 teamspeaks or discords. consolidation of the playerbase inside the client is the way to go. this third party meta game of trying to find groups in the excessive amount of voicecomms is the first, and biggest, roadblock for new players coming into the community. especially since each community ts, the 1 stop shop for newbs looking for guidance, have their adresses spread in sub-sub-forums on here. consolidate, focus, and let people easily find teams in the client, and for the love of god, put voip in the group ready up page. im sick of alt tabbing, or typing adresses no one can copy paste into chat.

[MischiefSC]

The ability to drop a click on someones name in the team/score list, the same way I report people, and send them a link to my TS would be phenomenal.

[TWIAFU]

PeppaPig, on 21 November 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

Nope, you just need to take your rose tinted glasses off to see the real picture . . .



Now, again, a more reasoned approach begins to shine forth - supporting the up and coming CW players rather than exclude has to be the way.

Yes, reasonable to not allow 12 pugs from playing on the same side. Split them up and make them join skirmish teams.

Get rid of solo CW so no more 12 pug teams and use them to fill up premades and skirmish groups.

That way CW MM will be;
Premade vs Premade or Premade vs Skirmish. There won't be the chance at all for a premade or skirmish vs pug team of 12.

No more seals for anyone to club.

naterist, on 21 November 2017 - 12:43 PM, said:

i think the grouping up and finding a lobby in fw system needs to be synonymous. bring em together, and add the tools needed for people to find groups without going through a library of 100 teamspeaks or discords. consolidation of the playerbase inside the client is the way to go. this third party meta game of trying to find groups in the excessive amount of voicecomms is the first, and biggest, roadblock for new players coming into the community. especially since each community ts, the 1 stop shop for newbs looking for guidance, have their adresses spread in sub-sub-forums on here. consolidate, focus, and let people easily find teams in the client, and for the love of god, put voip in the group ready up page. im sick of alt tabbing, or typing adresses no one can copy paste into chat.

Yes. If trying to play solo in CW you should be put into some sort of grouping system seamlessly.

We should have tools to make Grouping, Chatting and VOIP all easier and within MWO. We need something like a faction wide chat. Maybe even another chat for individual houses/clans. At some point, maybe a Looking For Group option. You could make a group and have people join you! Since TS/Discord can be to difficult, make an integrated VOIP system so everyone can chat with each other.

If we can ever get something like that to make grouping and talking to each other it would allow everyone equal footing and groups to fill queues!



In all seriousness, we need VOIP once there is a lobby. Once 12 are together waiting for the match, they need to be able to talk. Joining a Group should be as easy as clicking on someones name in chat.

[naterist]

Sounds like the solos and the units have a consensus, remove 12man pug teams by haveing a lobby formed around 2 premades of any size, with solos only dropping as filler to create equal sides.


Longer term goals requested is improvements to the unit tools, comms, and lfg.

All in favor post "aye" and spam russes twitter, all opposed, proceed to **** post.

[naterist]

Johnathan Tanner, on 22 November 2017 - 05:15 AM, said:

I'll shitpost. I think your a professional pug and terribad. I think your just trying to have a lobby created where professional pug terribads are ok to 2 be themselves and be bad. And anyone dumb enough to do more than 2k, or is it 500 damage across 4 mechs is shunned as a cheater, because. If anyone can do that they must be cheating right? I think you want to hurt the true solo players who have the ability to lead eleven no talent *** clowns to victory over full 12s. I think your just a salty *** pug lord who will whine no matter what the situation is. I think you and yours belong in quick play and should stay there. Because what cw needs least of all is more crying cowards.

#AllUnitsCheat

[McGoat]

naterist, on 22 November 2017 - 10:18 AM, said:

#AllUnitsCheat

[naterist]

McGoat, on 22 November 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

try the fw leaderboards. more accurate.

make sure to look at both units i started too, rsor(loyalist) and g-nx(merc). they aint terribly placed on that leaderboard either.

Edited by naterist, 22 November 2017 - 11:26 AM.