94 replies to this topic

[Mr Death]

Clan has 3 ams nova. Incoming 4 ams pirahna. Where is IS mech can do at least 3 ams?

[Khobai]

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Clan has 3 ams nova. Incoming 4 ams pirahna. Where is IS mech can do at least 3 ams?

most clan mechs dont even get 1 ams hardpoint.

every IS mech gets at least 1 ams hardpoint

IS ams is distributed. clan ams is more centralized.

seems fair to me.

especially since clan missiles get shot down by AMS more easily than IS missiles, so IS getting access to mechs with 3-4 AMS would just make clans not wanna use missiles at all. not that clans have much of a reason to use missiles as is...

Edited by Khobai, 03 November 2017 - 11:42 AM.

[Bombast]

Its in the same place where the IS 12+ Energy Hard Point mech is.

Khobai, on 03 November 2017 - 11:36 AM, said:

Most clan mechs dont even get 1 ams

Doesn't every Clan chassis have AMS?

[Khobai]

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Doesn't every Clan chassis have AMS?

yeah if you use garbage omnipods that usually have no other hardpoints on them

[Mr Death]

Clan omnis don't have ams when they meta cheese a beam hardpoint not an ams point. Nova/KFX be damned

just like they ecm hardpoint all day. so no sad face for non ams clanners.

[Bombast]

Khobai, on 03 November 2017 - 11:43 AM, said:

yeah if you use garbage omnipods that usually have no other hardpoints on them

They still have them.

[Khobai]

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They still have them.

if you have to run a sub-optimal loadout to use it, thats basically the same thing as not having it, because no one is going to run a sub-optimal loadout just for 1 AMS.

IS dont have that problem. even their best variants still have 1 AMS.

thats why clans get some omnimechs with 3 AMS. to make up for the other omnimechs that carry 0 AMS.

So a single kitfox with 3 AMS can make up for 2-3 other omnimechs with 0 AMS.


Also clan missiles are more susceptible to being shot down by AMS. if you give IS mechs with 3-4 AMS youre just making clan missiles worse. Youre just forcing clans into laser vomit even more.

Clan players need to be encouraged to use missiles more, not discouraged from using them entirely.

Edited by Khobai, 03 November 2017 - 11:55 AM.

[Mr Death]

Khobai, on 03 November 2017 - 11:48 AM, said:

if you have to run a sub-optimal loadout to use it, thats basically the same thing as not having it, because no one is going to run a sub-optimal loadout just for 1 AMS.

IS dont have that problem. even their best variants still have 1 AMS.

thats why clans get some omnimechs with 3 AMS. to make up for the other omnimechs that carry 0 AMS.

So one kitfox with 3 AMS can make up for 2-3 other omnimechs with 0 AMS.


Also clan missiles are more susceptible to being shot down by AMS. if you give IS mechs with 3-4 AMS youre just making clan missiles worse. Youre just forcing clans into laser vomit even more.

Clan players need to be encouraged to use missiles not discouraged even more.

You've clearly missed the point that there is still no 3 ams IS mechs and there is an incoming 4 ams clan
mech. AND Clan dominates the ECM scene.

Edited by Mr Death, 03 November 2017 - 11:56 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

You've clearly missed the point that there is still no 3 ams IS mechs and there is an incoming 4 ams clan
mech.

no youve clearly missed the point

due to their ripple fire, clan missiles are shot down by ams far more easily than IS missiles. giving IS a 4 ams mech just makes clan missiles suck even more

if IS get a popular mech with 3-4 AMS, why would any clan player ever use missiles again? they wont.

congrats youve just found a way to make clan missiles even worse than they already are...

which not only defeats the purpose of your 3-4 AMS but forces clan players into laser vomiting even more.

you dont need a mech with 3-4 AMS because 2 AMS can shoot down a whole volley of clan missiles as is.

Edited by Khobai, 03 November 2017 - 12:00 PM.

[Bombast]

Khobai, on 03 November 2017 - 11:56 AM, said:

no youve clearly missed the point

due to their ripple fire, clan missiles are shot down by ams far more easily than IS missiles. giving IS a 4 ams mech just makes clan missiles suck even more

if IS get a popular mech with 3-4 AMS, why would any clan player ever use missiles again? they wont.

which not only defeats the purpose of your 3-4 AMS but forces clan players into laser vomiting even more.

congrats youve just found a way to make clan missiles even worse than they already are...

You make it sound like Inner Sphere mechs are all running around, maxing out their AMS potential. Jester's must be a very desirable CW mech.

[VonBruinwald]

Khobai, on 03 November 2017 - 11:48 AM, said:

if you have to run a sub-optimal loadout to use it, thats basically the same thing as not having it, because no one is going to run a sub-optimal loadout just for 1 AMS.

So basically you want the best of everything and none of the draw backs...

[Khobai]

Quote

You make it sound like Inner Sphere mechs are all running around, maxing out their AMS potential. Jester's must be a very desirable CW mech.

huh? two mechs with 1 AMS each can shoot down most missiles from a clan lrm boat.

clan missiles are super easy to shoot down because of their ripple fire.

ATMs especially get ripped apart by AMS because of the low missile count.

Quote

So basically you want the best of everything and none of the draw backs...

no. because im not asking for all clan mechs to have 1 ams. im fine with the current drawbacks.

im explaining why some clan mechs like the kitfox have 3 ams. because not all omnimechs get easy access to ams.

and why IS mechs should not have 3-4 ams. Because it makes using missiles entirely pointless for clan players if IS can easily counter them with ams.

clan missiles already suck why do you need to make them worse? I mean really.

you complain about clan laser vomit constantly but you wanna nerf everything else clans have and force them to use lasers. that is ********.

Edited by Khobai, 03 November 2017 - 12:08 PM.

[Mr Death]

So you want it to stay Clan most ecm/most ams, IS. NO.?

[mogs01gt]

Seriously? Who gives a **** about AMS. Its wasted tonnage.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

especially since clan missiles get shot down by AMS more easily than IS missiles, so IS getting access to mechs with 3-4 AMS would just make clans not wanna use missiles at all. not that clans have much of a reason to use missiles as is...

Quote

Its in the same place where the IS 12+ Energy Hard Point mech is.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Komodo

11E, 3 AMS hardpoints in MWO terms. Oh, and it comes with ECM, on a modestly speedy (between the Blackjack and Phoenix Hawk) 45-ton chassis. And it was built in 3053 in large numbers.

Edited by Brain Cancer, 03 November 2017 - 12:06 PM.

[Mr Death]

mogs01gt, on 03 November 2017 - 12:04 PM, said:

Seriously? Who gives a **** about AMS. Its wasted tonnage.

It matters when the LRM cry happens.
(both sides)

[mogs01gt]

Mr Death, on 03 November 2017 - 12:05 PM, said:

It matters when the LRM cry happens.
(both sides)

LRMs? WTF are those?

[Jackal Noble]

First of all Clan LRMS and IS LRMS are non-equivalent in terms of delivery. Sure, that 180 m min sucks, but IS lrms come in one solid hitting package, vs long easily avoidable stream which can be countered with 2 ams, sometimes 1 depending on quirks (tho think that went away mostly with Skilltree). Further some Clan omnis do not have AMS stock, and in order to equip a pod with AMS results in the lost of that chassis's quirks. So ya.

Now, do yourself a favor before coming on here lamenting the two mechs that has 3 AMS, and look at how many clan mechs do not have a single AMS system. I swear to god these antics never go away.

Commando - every variant has 1 AMS
Firestarter - two variants have 2 (FS-9S)(FS-9SC-champion) rest have 1 AMS
Javelin - two variants have 2 (JVN-10F) (JVN-10N) the rest have 1 AMS
Jenner - every variant has one AMS
Locust - 1 variant has 2 AMS (LCT-3M) the rest have 1 AMS
Panther - the 10K and 10K-C have 2 AMS, the rest have 1 AMS
Raven - every variant has 1 AMS
Spider - Spider Hero Anansi has 2 AMS, the rest have 1 AMS
UrbanMech - every variant has 1 AMS
Wolfhound - the 1B has 2 AMS, the rest have 1 AMS
Assassin - every variant has 1 AMS
Blackjack - every variant has 1 AMS
Bushwacker - the S2 has 2 AMS, the rest have 1 AMS
Centurian - every variant has 1 AMS
Cicada - Every variant except the X-5 hero has 1 AMS
Crab - the 27 has 2 AMS, the rest have 1 AMS
Enforcer - every variant has 1 AMS
Griffin - every variant has 1 AMS
Hunchback - every variant has 1 AMS
Kintaro - every variant has 1 AMS
Phoenix Hawk - the 3S, Roc, Kuroi Kiri have 2 AMS, the rest have 1 AMS
Shadowhawk - every variant has 1 AMS
Trebuchet - every variant has 1 AMS
Uziel - every variant has 1 AMS
Vindicator - the 1AA and 1AA-C have 2 AMS, the rest have 1 AMS
Wolverine - every variant has 1 AMS
Archer - every variant has 1 AMS
Black Knight - the 6-KNT has 2 AMS, the rest have 1 AMS
Cataphract - every variant has 1 AMS
Catapult - Jester hero has 2 AMS, the rest have 1 AMS
Dragon - every variant has 1 AMS
Grasshopper - the 5J has 2 AMS, the rest have 1 AMS
JagerMech - every variant has 1 AMS
Marauder - every variant has 1 AMS
Orion - every variant has 1 AMS
Rifleman - every variant has 1 AMS
Roughneck - every variant has 1 AMS
Thunderbolt - the 9S has 2 AMS, the rest have 1 AMS
Warhammer - every variant has 1 AMS
Atlas - the K has 2 AMS, the rest have 1 AMS
Awesome - every variant has 1 AMS
Banshee - every variant has 1 AMS
Battlemaster - the 2C and 2C-C have 2 AMS, the rest ahve 1 AMS
Cyclops - the 11-A-DC has 2 AMS, the rest have 1 AMS
Highlander - every variant has 1 AMS
King Crab - every variant has 1 AMS
Mauler - every variant has 1 AMS
Stalker - the 5S has 2 AMS, the rest have 1 AMS
Victor - every variant has 1 AMS
Zeus - every variant has 1 AMS

[Mr Death]

http://www.sarna.net...055u_Komodo.jpg

Looks good on paper. Ugly as all heck. Plus has 2 ams not 3. No guarantee would get 3

Do yourself a favor and count those mechs as how many of them are not "Viable" and don't make it even to Quick Play nevermind Faction play.

[Jackal Noble]

The better question is; Why is the Cicada X5 the only mech on the Inner Shere side the only mech without AMS?