216 replies to this topic

[Xavori]

BrunoSSace, on 18 November 2017 - 01:22 AM, said:

I Agree with Jackelbeast. Only thing this thing needs, is ether add minor armor quirks and keep the structure or swap them for armor. Its not terrible, people just love shooting at new mechs. Plus people haven't skilled their mechs yet. Another month we will definitely know what its like. All I want is more agility, this thing moves like a truck.

Every mech needs structure quirks changed to armor.

After your armor is gone, the crit-centric weapons that prolly 2/3rds of all mechs carry will remove the creamy filling in short order. The best you can hope for is to lose all the weapons in that bit, more likely, you die.

For the Thanny specifically, a big easy to hit mech because of geometry needs to have extra armor or it gets benched from even casual play. And I say this as someone who has found good builds for a couple of them (Hangover, 5S, and 4S...the other thanny's can pound sand for all I care). The mech cannot win 1v1 duels against other 75t mechs unless the other pilot is terrible because you are so much easier to hit than they are. You can't really take the mech out on its own because again, you are easy to hit, and ECM has zero effect on how people play the game at range (and hell, a lot of players never hit R even with a mech right in front of them because who needs to know which component to shoot at anyway, right?) so does you little to no good in boosting your survival vs anything other than LRM's and streaks.

So you have a mediocre mech that is dependent on hanging out with the murderball in a game where there are so many other choices, but that could be helped enormously by either a] rescaling so geometry isn't such a mess, or b] giving the Thanny armor quirks, especially on those huge ST's.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Athom83, on 15 November 2017 - 02:52 PM, said:

I remember a time when people were making fun of crit-seaking weapons like the LB-X and MGs. Ah... 3 months ago... good times.

It's not LB-X. It's the fact that even lasers crit things out regularly. LMGs have only made it extremely common.

[Jackal Noble]

Xavori, on 18 November 2017 - 09:32 AM, said:

Every mech needs structure quirks changed to armor.

After your armor is gone, the crit-centric weapons that prolly 2/3rds of all mechs carry will remove the creamy filling in short order. The best you can hope for is to lose all the weapons in that bit, more likely, you die.

For the Thanny specifically, a big easy to hit mech because of geometry needs to have extra armor or it gets benched from even casual play. And I say this as someone who has found good builds for a couple of them (Hangover, 5S, and 4S...the other thanny's can pound sand for all I care). The mech cannot win 1v1 duels against other 75t mechs unless the other pilot is terrible because you are so much easier to hit than they are. You can't really take the mech out on its own because again, you are easy to hit, and ECM has zero effect on how people play the game at range (and hell, a lot of players never hit R even with a mech right in front of them because who needs to know which component to shoot at anyway, right?) so does you little to no good in boosting your survival vs anything other than LRM's and streaks.

So you have a mediocre mech that is dependent on hanging out with the murderball in a game where there are so many other choices, but that could be helped enormously by either a] rescaling so geometry isn't such a mess, or b] giving the Thanny armor quirks, especially on those huge ST's.

The moment you dismissed the value of structure, I stopped reading.

Edited by JackalBeast, 18 November 2017 - 10:22 AM.

[Thorqemada]

I never understood Structure Buffs as the very Moment Armor is gone most Weapons instantly blow up.
Sure, if you boat 8 ML you have a Chance that you still have 4 or 5 left but all bigger ACs, Gauss, IS-PPC anything with a Slot requirement of more than 2 is going to blow up and only Armor prevents that.

Für Structure Buffs having a rightful use Equipment HP would have need at least 10HP per Slot - so a 5 Slot Weapons would have 50 HP -> then Structure makes sense as Equipmnt would have a staying power!

Question: What is an Oxymoron?
Answer: Pgi Balancing...

[LT. HARDCASE]

JackalBeast, on 18 November 2017 - 10:21 AM, said:

The moment you dismissed the value of structure, I stopped reading.

He's right though, armor is objectively superior to structrure.

[Exard3k]

LT. HARDCASE, on 18 November 2017 - 11:01 AM, said:

He's right though, armor is objectively superior to structrure.

You are right. But that doesn't make structure useless, just inferior.

[Xavori]

Exard3k, on 18 November 2017 - 11:05 AM, said:

You are right. But that doesn't make structure useless, just inferior.

It's not like structure is only slightly inferior...we're talking major degrees here.

One your armor is gone, you're wide open to crits, ammo explosions, losing weapons, getting eaten by any of the MG-heavy buids, etc. There is simply no comparison as to which is better to have.

So you take any of the mechs with structure quirks, which have those quirks because PGI recognized the inherent weaknesses in the mechs, and tell me that the structure quirks actually make the mechs better. Because they don't. Conversely, when you convert those same quirks to armor, the mech is noticeably better.

And it's not like PGI doesn't realize this given the conversions of structure to armor on mechs recently

[Kimchi4u]

So, after a few days of playing with the different variants, I feel that the Thanatos has a couple that are....okay. I've been able to make the 4S and the 5S work. The 5T is fun with full load of mrms but it seems underwhelming. My biggest dissapointment is the Hangover. That thing is simply a hot mess.

[Xavori]

Kimchi4u, on 18 November 2017 - 12:17 PM, said:

So, after a few days of playing with the different variants, I feel that the Thanatos has a couple that are....okay. I've been able to make the 4S and the 5S work. The 5T is fun with full load of mrms but it seems underwhelming. My biggest dissapointment is the Hangover. That thing is simply a hot mess.

If you want to MRM-boat, taking the small step up to the Stalker 5M produce vastly superior results. In fact, any missile boat comparison between Thanatos and Stalker 5M ends with the Stalker being better while only weighing 10 more tons.

The Thanatos is just too fragile and too easy to hit to be anything but a fire support mech. You don't want to be the enemy's target ever because you'll be dead too quickly.

[BrunoSSace]

Xavori, on 18 November 2017 - 09:32 AM, said:

Every mech needs structure quirks changed to armor.

After your armor is gone, the crit-centric weapons that prolly 2/3rds of all mechs carry will remove the creamy filling in short order. The best you can hope for is to lose all the weapons in that bit, more likely, you die.

For the Thanny specifically, a big easy to hit mech because of geometry needs to have extra armor or it gets benched from even casual play. And I say this as someone who has found good builds for a couple of them (Hangover, 5S, and 4S...the other thanny's can pound sand for all I care). The mech cannot win 1v1 duels against other 75t mechs unless the other pilot is terrible because you are so much easier to hit than they are. You can't really take the mech out on its own because again, you are easy to hit, and ECM has zero effect on how people play the game at range (and hell, a lot of players never hit R even with a mech right in front of them because who needs to know which component to shoot at anyway, right?) so does you little to no good in boosting your survival vs anything other than LRM's and streaks.

So you have a mediocre mech that is dependent on hanging out with the murderball in a game where there are so many other choices, but that could be helped enormously by either a] rescaling so geometry isn't such a mess, or b] giving the Thanny armor quirks, especially on those huge ST's.

Whats your hangover build?

[Xavori]

BrunoSSace, on 18 November 2017 - 12:41 PM, said:

Whats your hangover build?

5xERML, 4xMRM10, ECM, 2x JJ's, LE325 engine, 16 heat sinks, 5 tons MRM's.

The 4xMRM10 is set up in 2 weapon groups so that I can single-click chain fire when running hot. I then just keep me selector highling the ERML group and can quickly hit backspace to chain/not chain that group. This is important because the mech does run hot.

The mech fights best at the 250-350m range while running with the pack. You don't want to be out front because you'll get blown apart, and you don't want to be too far back because your MRM's will spread to the point of uselessness. Plus, running in the middle of the pack gives ECM coverage to as many of your teammates as possible.

When twisting, it's important to note you potentially lose only 15 points of damage on the left side, but 45 on the right. The Thanny doesn't twist well, but if you're gonna go all Chubby Checker, protect the right more than the left.

[Mechrophilia]

On armor/structure: Extra structure is nice to have, but extra armor is VERY nice to have.

On the Thanny: The Thanatos has large side torsos that are easier to target than most other mechs. It needs a respectable chunk of armor added to each of the side torsos in my humble opinion. (also visibility is just horrible, but that's a different matter)

[Nema Nabojiv]

Xavori, on 18 November 2017 - 01:04 PM, said:

5xERML, 4xMRM10, ECM, 2x JJ's, LE325 engine, 16 heat sinks, 5 tons MRM's.

Not that I am particularly good mrm user, but by taking 4x10 instead of 1x40 you get 1 critslot and 4.5 heat more for no benefit in fire rate.

[Xavori]

Nema Nabojiv, on 18 November 2017 - 01:20 PM, said:

Not that I am particularly good mrm user, but by taking 4x10 instead of 1x40 you get 1 critslot and 4.5 heat more for no benefit in fire rate.

I get the ability to single-click chain fire when running hot, and this mech runs hot. I also get tighter missile spread which matters quite a bit on MRM's as the MRM40 might as well be a MRM 10 at ranges beyond 300m given how many missiles will miss the target entirely.

The 1x40 (in fact, you can make this mech a MRM50 if you want) leaves you really prone to shutting down in order to fire again.

[Termin8rSmurf]

In my humble opinion, it's a big bag of ****! Torsos are too big, no armour to compensate that. Totally XL unfriendly, like no other mech before ever was this non-XL friendly! Always overheating, no matter what map. (Not just me, but every Thanatos I've seen!) No matter where you aim, you hit the side torsos. It's ****, and that's not going to change in a hurry. I really want to refund mine. How do I go about that?

[Nomad One]

Xavori, on 18 November 2017 - 12:31 PM, said:

If you want to MRM-boat, taking the small step up to the Stalker 5M produce vastly superior results. In fact, any missile boat comparison between Thanatos and Stalker 5M ends with the Stalker being better while only weighing 10 more tons.

The Thanatos is just too fragile and too easy to hit to be anything but a fire support mech. You don't want to be the enemy's target ever because you'll be dead too quickly.

You don't need to go that high in tonnage to get better MRM boats than the Thanatos either. There are plenty of them above and below that 75 ton limit.

Marauder MAD-5D, has a shield side, is actually tankier AND more nimble than the Thanatos. Can run either standard medium lasers for more heat efficiency, or extended range version for longer range. The TNS-4S weeps for how awful it is compared to this mech.

Awesome AWS-8, smaller profile than Thanatos and even though it doesn't jump, tanks like no-ones business and still runs pretty much the same speed but is more heat and DPS efficient.

Archer Tempest, less tonnage, but has ECM, is still considerably more damage absorbent than the Thanatos. You can even throw one of the heatsinks away and slap on an extra medium laser because of the missile heat generation quirk.

Then theres even medium mechs that do MRMs better than the Thanatos. The lack of proper quirks and/ or poor hardpoint placement simply make it subpar in almost every conceivable role. Most of the variants lack character, and cannot compete with other mechs because of it. A couple of them have specific niches that other 75 ton mechs haven't had the ability do to before. Not saying it needs to be better, just equal to already available options.

If the Thanatos doesn't get to have survivability because of an easily countered support system that requires a hefty tonnage and skill point investment, then at least give it a hand in firepower.

Edited by Nomad One, 18 November 2017 - 02:41 PM.

[BrunoSSace]

I will give that fit ago, was looking for longer range build but i will keep experimenting. I can't seem to squeeze in enough heat sinks to make an er large laser build work. My 5 er large lazer build is super hot

Edited by BrunoSSace, 18 November 2017 - 03:29 PM.