164 replies to this topic

[Jay Leon Hart]

Paigan, on 24 November 2017 - 07:16 AM, said:

Look at ALL the stats.

I write it again, maybe at some point, you will get it:
About equal dps as a normal Gauss.
Slightly more damage per ammo ton.
Longer range.
Less weight.

And if you really need it:
MORE alpha damage than an AC2 or AC5
MORE range than any (normal) AC.
(Virtually) NO HEAT.

It's really a good weapon. Don't just compare values you like. Look at all values. If you are capable of properly comparing a couple of numbers, you CANNOT say that it is a bad weapon.

You missed some stats;
Just over half damage of IS Gauss for 80% of the weight & ~70% of the size
Just over half damage of Clan Gauss for the same weight & ~80% of the size
GH linked with PPCs, unlike the ACs

[Paigan]

Jay Leon Hart, on 24 November 2017 - 07:25 AM, said:

You missed some stats;
Just over half damage of IS Gauss for 80% of the weight & ~70% of the size
Just over half damage of Clan Gauss for the same weight & ~80% of the size
GH linked with PPCs, unlike the ACs

DPS.
Range.
I'm tired of explaining it.
You don't see/grasp the full picture.

Ghost heat is a valid argument in comparison to ACs.
But not to other Gauss.

Edited by Paigan, 24 November 2017 - 08:55 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Paigan, on 24 November 2017 - 08:53 AM, said:

DPS.
I'm tired of explaining it.

Hey, you said look at ALL the stats, so don't get mad at me because you missed some important ones.

[panzer1b]

I really dont get why people think the HGR is that bad? I mean LGR sucks, yeah weve established that, but HGR, i have 1 of those on my MAD-BH2 and it gets 1K dmg every other game, maybee it comes down to understanding HOW to use the bloody weapon and how to play around its weaknesses (short range and 11 crits). Obviously there are more versatile loadouts, but all things considered, the STD engine isnt the worst thing in the game (and unlike XL/LFE, lets you deadside with 0 penalties so half a mech is almost as lethal as a full one). Actually i think the HGR is a perfect fit for the BH2, you cant bring a high engine anyway,

As for the LGR, well yeah, ive yet to find a single mech that can use it at all without wasting a slot on teh team. Its still way too heavy to be used on light mechs, its too heavy to be used as a secondary weapon, and its anemic for a primary weapon in every single stat that matters. Something really needs to be done about it without making it a worthless piece of trash it is right now. A good amount of new tech wasnt exactly meta or even that good, but the LGR is prolly one of the worst options right now (in the same boat as RAC2s which are also worthless if you compare them to the RAC5 which itself isnt meta or anything but at least is fun and can do some damage).

[davoodoo]

Well hgr sux because it got shorter range than ersl...
if it had idk 400-450m optimal i would actually use it pretty often despite ridiculous weight, but now uac20 is simply better weapon.

Edited by davoodoo, 24 November 2017 - 10:29 AM.

[R Valentine]

davoodoo, on 24 November 2017 - 10:28 AM, said:

Well hgr sux because it got shorter range than ersl...
if it had idk 400-450m optimal i would actually use it pretty often despite ridiculous weight, but now uac20 is simply better weapon.

HGR isn't bad, but it isn't great either. No crit splitting, less damage per ton of ammunition than has been the standard convention, and garbage range. Can you make it shine? Yes. But only on a very few mechs given that you can't mount it in the arms and the engine restriction sucks.

[Jackal Noble]

Kiran Yagami, on 24 November 2017 - 10:59 AM, said:

HGR isn't bad, but it isn't great either. No crit splitting, less damage per ton of ammunition than has been the standard convention, and garbage range. Can you make it shine? Yes. But only on a very few mechs given that you can't mount it in the arms and the engine restriction sucks.

Nothing seriously instills fear more than coming around a corner into a 2xHGR assault. It's like welp. Hell even a 1HGR hunch or Roughneck is nasty. Even tho the current thing to do is MRM spam. barf. There goes my side torso. There goes my other arm. Dead.

[davoodoo]

JackalBeast, on 24 November 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

Nothing seriously instills fear more than coming around a corner into a 2xHGR assault. It's like welp. Hell even a 1HGR hunch or Roughneck is nasty. Even tho the current thing to do is MRM spam. barf. There goes my side torso. There goes my other arm. Dead.

Theres mauler with 2 hgr doing 50 damage.

Or hunchback with uac20 and 3 lasers putting 50 before you can even twist...or hunchback 2c putting 40 at thrice the range of hgr...

Edited by davoodoo, 24 November 2017 - 02:55 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Light Gauss has one combat role: it is the sniperiest weapon in the game. PGI can double down on that by extending the range by 50-100%. If you could do full damage out to 1500m and still hurt people out to 3k then it would have a distinct (yet very specialized) place.

[Y E O N N E]

Paigan, on 24 November 2017 - 08:53 AM, said:

DPS.
Range.
I'm tired of explaining it.
You don't see/grasp the full picture.

Ghost heat is a valid argument in comparison to ACs.
But not to other Gauss.

Nah, you don't grasp the full picture. The ERLL and UAC/2 alternatives do more damage within the target's expected exposure window, and they do it without breaking the heat cap and while offering similar sustained output.

The Ultra AC/2 and ERLL are superior to the LGauss at extreme range fighting in 100% of extreme-range scenarios.

[Lightfoot]

MechWarrior 4 gave them 400 meters more range than standard Gauss. They must have come up with that range from somewhere in Battletech, but that is what MWO's Light Gauss need, 1100 to 1200 meter range.

Edited by Lightfoot, 24 November 2017 - 09:23 PM.

[FupDup]

Lightfoot, on 24 November 2017 - 09:22 PM, said:

MechWarrior 4 gave them 400 meters more range than standard Gauss. They must have come up with that range from somewhere in Battletech, but that is what MWO's Light Gauss need, 1100 to 1200 meter range.

No, like many things in MW4 it was just made up by Microsoft because they saw problems with Battletech's values and tried to fix them...in some cases at least.

[Khobai]

light gauss doesnt need 1100-1200 meter range

that wouldnt even be useful anyway... when do you ever shoot at things that far away? maybe on alpine? thats it?

what light gauss needs is to do 10 damage.

Quote

The Ultra AC/2 and ERLL are superior to the LGauss at extreme range fighting in 100% of extreme-range scenarios.

none of those weapons are PPFLD though

the entire role of the light gauss should be delivering PPFLD at extreme range

light gauss needs to be 10 damage, 4.25+0.5 cooldown, 810m range, and 20 shots per ton

and ideally chargeup should also be removed completely from all gauss weapons. now that ppcs and gauss are linked for ghost heat, we dont need chargeup to desync gauss from ppcs anymore.

Edited by Khobai, 24 November 2017 - 09:40 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 24 November 2017 - 09:36 PM, said:

none of those weapons are PPFLD though

It matters not even one little bit, because they exceed the performance of PPFLD alternatives even on the Clan side.

Quote

the entire role of the light gauss should be delivering PPFLD at extreme range

Not at 8 damage, and not even at 10 damage. An ERPPC and a Gauss will perform better for less weight.

Time to make a new role.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 24 November 2017 - 09:44 PM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 24 November 2017 - 09:36 PM, said:

and ideally chargeup should also be removed completely from all gauss weapons. now that ppcs and gauss are linked for ghost heat, we dont need chargeup to desync gauss from ppcs anymore.

Charge-up is more than just a desync, it's also just a flavor thing that makes the Gauss weapon family feel different from the rest of the point-and-click guns we have.

[Khobai]

Quote

Charge-up is more than just a desync, it's also just a flavor thing that makes the Gauss weapon family feel different from the rest of the point-and-click guns we have.

if you want to give gauss flavor then giving it armor piercing.

but chargeup is a BAD mechanic. it doesnt add flavor so much as frustration. a sniping weapon needs to be able to snapshot and chargeup prevents that.

give gauss an X% chance for Y% of its damage to bypass armor and damage internals directly.

IS gauss could have higher armor penetration than clan gauss to help balance out the fact IS gauss is heavier.

Quote

Not at 8 damage, and not even at 10 damage. An ERPPC and a Gauss will perform better for less weight.

Not if Light Gauss has a ghost heat limit of 3 instead of 2. Then you can use it alongside ERPPCs.

Light Gauss does less damage than Gauss, so obviously it shouldnt have the same ghost heat limit of 2.

x1 Light Gauss + x2 CERPPCs or x2 Light Gauss + x1 ERPPC would outperform dual gauss at extreme range. Because dual Gauss only does 30 damage upto 660m not 810m.

Edited by Khobai, 24 November 2017 - 09:59 PM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 24 November 2017 - 09:50 PM, said:

if you want to give it flavor then giving it armor piercing.

but chargeup is a BAD mechanic. it doesnt add flavor so much as frustration. a sniping weapon needs to be able to snapshot and chargeup prevents that.

give gauss an X% chance for Y% of its damage to bypass armor and hit internals directly.

Because giving weapons random chances to ignore enemy armor is totally not adding frustration.

[Tarl Cabot]

The charge up and release should be changed to being a double pull. Click, charge up click again...

[Khobai]

Quote

Because giving weapons random chances to ignore enemy armor is totally not adding frustration.

how does it add frustration? the penetration amount would only be like 20% at most. thats like 2-3 damage.

but more importantly it means gauss' front end damage can be lowered.

for example instead of clan gauss doing 15 damage it could do 12 damage with a % chance for 2-3 of the damage to bypass armor.

thats way more balanced than having it do 15 damage all the time.

that would allow for removal of chargeup without gauss being completely broken again.

Edited by Khobai, 24 November 2017 - 10:07 PM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 24 November 2017 - 10:02 PM, said:

how does it add frustration? the penetration amount would only be like 20% at most. thats like 2-3 damage.

Frustration for the user because your performance will be inconsistent based on how lucky your dice rolls are.

Frustration for the person getting shot because their squishy internals are getting damaged even while the armor is intact.