96 replies to this topic

[Tarl Cabot]

Wolfways, on 26 November 2017 - 12:57 AM, said:

I've learned that you cannot customize an omnimech if you keep the stock weapons, but you can on any other battlemech.

If you keep a battlemech stock as you would with an omnimech or Clan battlemech, what is there to customize?

Then to narrow it down to stock weapons, have you actually seen the loadouts for most stock IS battlemechs, and we are not talking about the (C)(L) and other special flakes either. Never mind all the load outs/ammo are meant for a table top game. Loading up on ammo for a game that is simulating what occurs in a 10 SECOND round. No one in their right mind would equipment 6-10 tons of ammo for said game.

Maddog 81KPH - ability to survive the loss one side torso.
Warhammer 2 PPC (PGI min range no damage BS), 2 ML and 2 SL. (base speed 64KPH)
Grasshopper 2 PPC (see above) 2 MPL and 2 ML - Changing the engine to a isXL-hey shoot me here allows the mech to move faster than 64KPH

Wait for it - Catapult A1.. poor thing only comes equipped with has TWO LRM 15s with 4 tons of ammo, moving @ 78KPH. max if you allow it to equip isXL 315 with some tonnage left, or LFE 315 w/1 ton left....

I definitely do not want what you are smoking.. tis spiked with some bad mojo...

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 26 November 2017 - 01:30 AM.

[Exard3k]

Tarl Cabot, on 26 November 2017 - 01:16 AM, said:

If you keep a battlemech stock as you would with an omnimech or Clan battlemech, what is there to customize?

Then to narrow it down to stock weapons, have you actually seen the loadouts for most stock IS battlemechs, and we are not talking about the (C)(L) and other special flakes either. Never mind all the load outs/ammo are meant for a table top game. Loading up on ammo for a game that is simulating what occurs in a 10 SECOND round. No one in their right mind would equipment 6-10 tons of ammo for said game.

Maddog 81KPH - ability to survive the loss one side torso.
Warhammer 2 PPC (PGI min range no damage BS), 2 ML and 2 SL. (base speed 64KPH)
Grasshopper 2 PPC (see above) 2 MPL and 2 ML - Changing the engine to a isXL-hey shoot me here allows the mech to move faster than 64KPH

I definitely do not want what you are smoking.. tis spiked with some bad mojo...

You forgot the Rifleman....IS 60 ton mech. You can't really customize or optimize without dropping weaponry. That's the fate of TT Mechs that are vastly overgunned and singleminded.....get me 4 riflemen pilots into the lobby and I'm so gonna wreck them with a single MDD-Prime its not even funny. Yeah...underperforming

Edited by Exard3k, 26 November 2017 - 01:33 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Exard3k, on 26 November 2017 - 01:32 AM, said:

You forgot the Rifleman....IS 60 ton mech. You can't really customize or optimize without dropping weaponry. That's the fate of TT Mechs that are vastly overgunned and singleminded.....get me 4 riflemen pilots into the lobby and I'm so gonna wreck them with a single MDD-Prime its not even funny. Yeah...underperforming

As long as the OP is talking about running stock weapons only, most battlemechs come with STD and move very slow. Changing to LFE or isXL allows an increase in speed from the pitiful 64KPH, some extra DHS and maybe a tad bit more ammo and/or armor. What pilot would change to a STD in a Clan Omnimech or change cDHS to SHS?

What some may have forgotten is that Clans were also going to have their armor locked to stock levels, which would have been horrible for many omnis. Nor were there any type of penalties for losing one side torso, no movement nor heat penalties for some time.

[Spheroid]

Why are people running stock builds?

Its not like Clan pilots of medium rank cannot mount custom pods. Joanna of Clan Jade Falcon would been either a Star Captain or Star Commander in 3050, the period associated with her Hellbringer use. According to MWO that mech could very well be the Virago a non-standard Hellbringer configuration.

Also I.S. forces during Operation Bulldog created new pod configurations in the field on campaign so it is really not the chore some think it to be.

[Tarogato]

Have you ever considered, maybe... not using the stock equipment?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...35ca8ae0081bb36

This is what I do when I play other Mechwarrior games. I keep the hardpoints, I keep the general gist of the weapons, but I modify what is necessary to make the mech viable.

You also have the option to do something like this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e3a6e1443a9136a


But just straight up keeping the exact stock weapons isn't going to do you any favours.

[FupDup]

Appogee, on 26 November 2017 - 12:57 AM, said:

Because those Mechs already have the inherent advantages of lighter weapons and equipment, survivable XL engines, longer weapon ranges, and generally, many more hardpoints, vs Battlemechs.

The locked upgrades on Clan Mechs are to offset the inherent other advantages of Clan Mechs.

I'm not defending Wolfway's position, but I have to correct you.

IS Omnimechs would have the same locked upgrades as Clan Omnimechs, but without the base tech advantages. Likewise, Clan Battlemechs do have fully unlocked chassis and coincidentally most of them have caused balancing problems. The Clan Omnis seem good because of Clamtech OP, but I can assure you that most IS Omnis would not be as lucky.

It's not just a matter of "IS mech" vs. "Clan mech." It's IS Omni, IS BM, Clan Omni, AND Clan BM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Wolfways, on 25 November 2017 - 11:55 PM, said:

5) If you want to run the stock build being able to change omnipods means nothing, so currently clan players who want to use the stock weapon loadouts are forced to play completely stock mechs, unlike battlemechs which can keep the same weapons and change engine, structure, armour, etc.

If you restrict yourself, nothing is being forced.

Wolfways, on 25 November 2017 - 11:55 PM, said:

It should be possible for Omnimechs that don't change pods to be customized like battlemechs to help out under-performing mechs.

Yep, hopefully someone will (or has, not read the thread yet) mention the supposed TT rule regarding this.

[Damnedtroll]

Just look at the Charger battlemech on sarna ... and stop complaining.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Is this a bad time to mention that XL balance idea again?

OmniMech XL = Current Clan XL, survives ST destruction with penalty.
BattleMech XL = Current IS XL, death on ST destruction.
LFE = No change.

- OmniMechs get a new advantage over BattleMechs, tougher XL engines. They're hardwired so are more robust, or some other fluff.
- IS OmniMechs with XLs are not deathtraps.
- Clan BattleMechs have to weigh the fragility of an XL with the weight of a STD, bringing a lot of over-performers into line without excessive nerfs.
- IS keep the LFE to compensate for heavier equipment.

[Khobai]

the problem is clans dont have LFE

making clan battlemechs use standard engines will just make sure no one ever uses them again

id rather see omnimechs get buffed somehow, especially for the sake of IS omnimechs

Edited by Khobai, 26 November 2017 - 10:15 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Khobai, on 26 November 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

the problem is clans dont have LFE

making clan battlemechs use standard engines will just make sure no one ever uses them again

id rather see omnimechs get buffed somehow, especially for the sake of IS omnimechs

I don't know, my SNV-1 works great with a STD 325

Plus, IS managed for years with no LFE

I'm not opposed to Clan getting their own LFE, lore be damned!

Edited by Jay Leon Hart, 26 November 2017 - 10:18 AM.

[Wolfways]

Khobai, on 26 November 2017 - 01:12 AM, said:

yeah that was an idea i had at one time before they added set of 8 quirks.

then they added set of 8 quirks to reward the pure omnimechs instead

im fine with the set of 8 quirks. I just think they should only require 6 of the 8 parts instead of all 8.

and I think omnimechs should have 1-2 omnihardpoints each.

that would make omnimechs sufficiently versatile compared to battlemechs. and omnimechs should not be strictly inferior to battlemechs.

Well I've been mainly playing MDD's since they were released and I can honestly say that it is one of the worst mechs in the game, quirks or no quirks. Quirks don't help with the extreme heat or lack of ammo.

[FupDup]

Jay Leon Hart, on 26 November 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

I don't know, my SNV-1 works great with a STD 325

Plus, IS managed for years with no LFE

I'm not opposed to Clan getting their own LFE, lore be damned!

A Clan LFE would be funny, 1 slot per ST means that it would be just as durable as the STD engine.

[Khobai]

Quote

Well I've been mainly playing MDD's since they were released and I can honestly say that it is one of the worst mechs in the game, quirks or no quirks. Quirks don't help with the extreme heat or lack of ammo.

they cant all be winners

[Wolfways]

Tarl Cabot, on 26 November 2017 - 01:16 AM, said:

Then to narrow it down to stock weapons, have you actually seen the loadouts for most stock IS battlemechs, and we are not talking about the (C)(L) and other special flakes either.

Yes Iv'e been playing them for 6 years. Nothing wrong with them once you customize but keep the weapons.

Quote

Wait for it - Catapult A1.. poor thing only comes equipped with has TWO LRM 15s with 4 tons of ammo, moving @ 78KPH. max if you allow it to equip isXL 315 with some tonnage left, or LFE 315 w/1 ton left....

And you can customize it to get more ammo...

[Wolfways]

Exard3k, on 26 November 2017 - 01:32 AM, said:

You forgot the Rifleman....IS 60 ton mech. You can't really customize or optimize without dropping weaponry. That's the fate of TT Mechs that are vastly overgunned and singleminded.....get me 4 riflemen pilots into the lobby and I'm so gonna wreck them with a single MDD-Prime its not even funny. Yeah...underperforming

RFL-3N: Fit Endo and DHS. You have 4tons to play with, plus you have the option of lowering the engine rating for more weight saving.

[Wolfways]

Tarogato, on 26 November 2017 - 03:09 AM, said:

Have you ever considered, maybe... not using the stock equipment?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...35ca8ae0081bb36

This is what I do when I play other Mechwarrior games. I keep the hardpoints, I keep the general gist of the weapons, but I modify what is necessary to make the mech viable.

You also have the option to do something like this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e3a6e1443a9136a


But just straight up keeping the exact stock weapons isn't going to do you any favours.

If I like a mech it's because I like the look of it and the weapons it carries.
I've played IS mechs just fine for 6 years with stock weapons by customizing other parts of the mechs. Of course I never expected pgi to not let me customize clan omni's in a similar way...even though I should have expected it from them.

Also, I have played with customized omni's...and then I quit the game for a long time because that made it feel even less like BT than it already does.

[Jay Leon Hart]

FupDup, on 26 November 2017 - 11:52 AM, said:

A Clan LFE would be funny, 1 slot per ST means that it would be just as durable as the STD engine.

1 slot? Hell no! They get the RAC treatment! 3 slots per torso. You know, just to really make things interesting

Wolfways, on 26 November 2017 - 11:59 AM, said:

And you can customize it to get more ammo...

Not if you decide to keep the stock weapons, engine, structure, heat sinks & armour!

Wolfways, on 26 November 2017 - 12:05 PM, said:

RFL-3N: Fit Endo and DHS. You have 4tons to play with, plus you have the option of lowering the engine rating for more weight saving.

But I can't if I want to keep the stock structure & heat sinks!

[Wolfways]

Jay Leon Hart, on 26 November 2017 - 12:21 PM, said:

Not if you decide to keep the stock weapons, engine, structure, heat sinks & armour!


But I can't if I want to keep the stock structure & heat sinks!

But no-one does. Pgi have made sure that stock mechs do not work in MWO due to limited ammo and heat so you are forced to customize to have a viable mech.
IS have the advantage of customizing all their mechs while having the choice of keeping the weapons.
The only thing omni's can "customize" is the omnipods, and if you want to keep the original weapons having changeable omnipods means nothing. You are forced to play a stock mech or not use it at all.

People keep saying that if I play with stock weapons it's my choice and I should accept the consequences, I get it.
My point is that it means nothing when playing battlemechs but is extremely punishing when playing omnimechs.

Edited by Wolfways, 26 November 2017 - 12:38 PM.

[Spheroid]

Two pages in and still no explanation given why one need run a stock Mad Dog Prime. I don't get it.