179 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

JigglyMoobs, on 30 November 2017 - 01:36 PM, said:

Yeah. Imagine someone who is of average solo queue skill jumping into that Anni an+ trying to make it work. Not only can they not, they can't even survive long enough to make the wait time worthwhile. Which is why you don't see s lot of those things running around.

I do see Annis fairly often actually...

And that's not quite a mech issue so much as a player/team issue.

[Grus]

The size of The commando and Locust is fine, just last night had a game with Ash on the other team. During the game he was in a mad2 and I couldn't get to him safely, why? Because he was in the middle of the pack. Not alone sniping or being a Rambo but with the group. He was open CT and evergthing... still couldn't get an angle on hit for the kill.

Lesson; if your having issues with a light mech, look left, look right, if there's no one around you then you need to fix that. Don't let us single you out and you'll be fine.

[JigglyMoobs]

FupDup, on 30 November 2017 - 01:37 PM, said:

I do see Annis fairly often actually...

And that's not quite a mech issue so much as a player/team issue.

Mechs need to be intuitive and fun. That's a gameplay design issue. People need to nudge pgi to do better if we are to expand the community, not have it slide into lingering decline.

If you are in an 80 kph mech being in the middle of a pack is your business. IF you are in a 50 kph mech your depend much more on the pack to be around you.

If you are in something other than a 100 ton assault you can be looking out constantly for small mech threats.

If you are in such/ an assault you're getting shot at by everyone in the map because, guess what? It's your role to figure out where the most intense fighting is and making the difference there. SO you are on the lookout for the other large mechs in the game and more likely to be surprised by lights.

The lights SHOULD be able to harass you but if you face one light you should have convenient ways of fending it off.

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 30 November 2017 - 01:52 PM.

[Novakaine]

And this is why I will lurm every light mech I see above all others.

[Y E O N N E]

JigglyMoobs, on 30 November 2017 - 01:36 PM, said:

Yeah. Imagine someone who is of average solo queue skill jumping into that Anni an+ trying to make it work. Not only can they not, they can't even survive long enough to make the wait time worthwhile. Which is why you don't see s lot of those things running around.

I see tons (kek) of them running around.

Besides, a new player of average skill is going to have a rough go in any 'Mech if he comes up against a player experienced enough to pull this stunt off.

And, part two, the reason you don't see as many super slow 'Mechs is because literally everything else can peel them apart if they make even one mistake in positioning and timing. Leg humping doesn't even register as a blip on the radar.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

And this is why I will lurm every light mech I see above all others.

ATMs can make lights explode in a very satisfying fashion, which is why I bully them in my Supernova. Bonus if you can hit one in the back just as it's orbiting another friendly. But that's why the best defense against light leg humpers is another friendly.

[ocular tb]

Novakaine, on 30 November 2017 - 02:22 PM, said:

And this is why I will lurm every light mech I see above all others.

I swear my Jenner is more of an LRM magnet than probably any other mech. It's one of the few mechs (and only light) that I actually use AMS on for precisely that reason.

[mouser42]

ocular tb, on 30 November 2017 - 04:46 PM, said:

I swear my Jenner is more of an LRM magnet than probably any other mech. It's one of the few mechs (and only light) that I actually use AMS on for precisely that reason.

the jenners both IS and clan are to big

[JigglyMoobs]

ocular tb, on 30 November 2017 - 04:46 PM, said:

I swear my Jenner is more of an LRM magnet than probably any other mech. It's one of the few mechs (and only light) that I actually use AMS on for precisely that reason.

The Jenner now is practically a medium trapped in a light's armor.

[ocular tb]

mouser42, on 30 November 2017 - 06:31 PM, said:

the jenners both IS and clan are to big

JigglyMoobs, on 30 November 2017 - 06:43 PM, said:

The Jenner now is practically a medium trapped in a light's armor.

I know, and being that it's my favorite mech it makes me sad

It can still do good but it isn't as forgiving as other lights that I like such as the Commando and Spider. Still, I do play it a lot and try to make it work and sometimes I do great and other times I fail miserably.

At least it's not a Panther. Those poor things...

Edited by ocular tb, 30 November 2017 - 07:02 PM.

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Why are we talking about the commando again when the locust is significantly smaller and harder to hit? The piranha will be smaller as well.

Anyway, I'm all for improving pitch or significantly increasing collision damage to lights. It will further weed out the best light players from the chaff. Anyone who wants to run an urbanmech stock (e.g. large AC + slow engine) will be slightly screwed by these changes, however.

Edited by 5th Fedcom Rat, 30 November 2017 - 07:05 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 30 November 2017 - 07:02 PM, said:

Anyway, I'm all for improving pitch or significantly increasing collision damage to lights. It will further weed out the best light players from the chaff.

This is comical.

[James Argent]

JigglyMoobs, on 30 November 2017 - 06:43 PM, said:

The Jenner now is practically a medium trapped in a light's armor.

To be fair, all Jenners are pretty confused on what they're supposed to be.

[JigglyMoobs]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 30 November 2017 - 07:02 PM, said:

Why are we talking about the commando again when the locust is significantly smaller and harder to hit? The piranha will be smaller as well.

Anyway, I'm all for improving pitch or significantly increasing collision damage to lights. It will further weed out the best light players from the chaff. Anyone who wants to run an urbanmech stock (e.g. large AC + slow engine) will be slightly screwed by these changes, however.

I think the point is, no mech should be able to do it. Some lights have serious problems right now but they are not solved by allowing unlimited leg humping.

Instead, things like the Jenner need mobility improvements. I think they all should have a degree of radar derp built in. Small pulse lasers should be unerfed (why were they nerfed in the first place?) and the lights should also get a reduction in energy weapon heat gen.

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 30 November 2017 - 08:50 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

Small lasers were nerfed because they were preparing to also nerf mediums. Which mostly happened. Smaller lasers are OP in Balanceland because they're much more efficient than large lasers.

At that rate, we may eventually see single-large-laser + something else be the default light layout.

[Y E O N N E]

Brain Cancer, on 30 November 2017 - 10:11 PM, said:

Small lasers were nerfed because they were preparing to also nerf mediums. Which mostly happened. Smaller lasers are OP in Balanceland because they're much more efficient than large lasers.

No.

SPL were nerfed because cSPL were nerfed because they were too legitimately too good at 6 damage and PGI can never just nerf the one offender without also whacking the analogous weapon on the other side for the sake of what they think are good optics. The IS SPL, despite its mediocrity, was still taken more often than the standard Small because, shocker, standard smalls have no damage output to speak of.

And to finish this off, the cSPL was over-nerfed. So. Yay.

Really, it had nothing to do with Medium lasers.

Also, get this:

SPL and cSPL get nerfed > Medium Lasers become even more popular because alternative options are no longer strong enough to go consider > PGI nerfs Medium Lasers for being too popular.

ggclose.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 30 November 2017 - 11:25 PM.

[JigglyMoobs]

Yeonne Greene, on 30 November 2017 - 11:24 PM, said:

No.

SPL were nerfed because cSPL were nerfed because they were too legitimately too good at 6 damage and PGI can never just nerf the one offender without also whacking the analogous weapon on the other side for the sake of what they think are good optics. The IS SPL, despite its mediocrity, was still taken more often than the standard Small because, shocker, standard smalls have no damage output to speak of.

And to finish this off, the cSPL was over-nerfed. So. Yay.

Really, it had nothing to do with Medium lasers.

Also, get this:

SPL and cSPL get nerfed > Medium Lasers become even more popular because alternative options are no longer strong enough to go consider > PGI nerfs Medium Lasers for being too popular.

ggclose.

Nerfing something because they are "too good" by some arbitrary metric is idiotic. This is the fundamental problem with PGI's approach to game balance.

They try for internal self-consistency.... but there's no reason there should be uniform scaling between 3 types of lasers or whatever else, other than pedantic neck-beard idiocy. cSPLs fit a role: they made for fun light mechs that sounded nice to boot.

They also made some people running larger mechs cry and they made IS lights look bad.

So buff, IS spl, nerf cSPL a little, get a happy medium, done.

But no. They chose instead of screw it all so the only thing left are mpls on wolfhounds.

Instead of thinking of weapons and mechs as tools that fit a role, like people do in the real world, they try to make them data points that fit on a line, and not just any line, a linear line. Why? FFS why?

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 30 November 2017 - 11:34 PM.

[mad kat]

Light mech pilots are generally brave and pushy (and often the best pilots) which is more than can be said of at least half the player base. Granted a Commando *SHOULD* not be able to solo an assault but lets face it it's what lights do best.

In comparison to the annihilator with its totem pole cockpit i would say its fine that they can't see a point blank commando or locust as any pilots worth their salt of those little demons should be able to stay behind the assault.

The problem doesn't lie with light mechs at all. So gods sake don't make them bigger (even if the commando's cockpit is actually too small). But with the assaults they are simply not tough enough there are numerous threads calling this out and several mediums can tank damage better (bushwacker, crab, centurion, hunchie etc).. Combine this with no-one at all usually in solo queue defending their assaults and often even just running off and abandoning them.

Edited by mad kat, 01 December 2017 - 12:00 AM.

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Yeonne Greene, on 30 November 2017 - 07:05 PM, said:

This is comical.

Hmm?

[LowSubmarino]

To get semi good dmg stats with spls, clan or IS, you gotta work nonstop and fire nonstop. Compared to how easily you can dish out huge amounts of dmg in other mechs and configurations it just seems not worth it. They arent very effective. Super hot. Try to take out the back armor with them. It takes an eternity.

Lights are fantastic harass and guerilla units. They can disengage and attack from a different direction.

In mwos acrade style game they are forced to play very differently.

Because mwo is an arcade action game. No simulation.

Its also pathetic, that I can easily shrug off double ac 20 hits with my light. I wont even slow down. I can ram huge mechs and nothing happens. The kinetic impact of gauss or ac rounds has virtually no impact. Which kinda kills immersion. Weight and kinetic force are meaningless in mwo.

But i think thats what ppl want.

They want short lived, 3 min action rounds.

I would love a much deeper game. Way more realistic. More unforgiving. A much deeper system where you have to maintain your money, sell loot, rearm and repair your mech.

But ppl dont want that.

Thats why we have such unrealstic games.

Games like system shock 2 were awesome but sadly not wildly popular. They were deeper back in the days. Much harder. Way more realistic and immersive.

Nowadays ppl want easy action games.

Halo 1's (pc) death animations look a million times better than the ragdoll effects we have in mwo.

Huge giant 100 ton mechs slowly tumble to the ground like bags of plastic.

Wheres the weight. Wheres the power behind such a machine with a fu***** fusion reactor. They should smash to the ground like huge behemots, and the earth should shudder in fear and terror and you think theres an earthquake if you stand close to such a mech getting destroyed, smashing to the ground, exploding.

Instead it just seems they are made of thin air, which destroys immersion in this area.

How can the death animations of a game (halo 1) that is decades older looks 100 times better than such a much more modern game. Its supposed to look good first, no?

I hate the death animations in mwo. Its one of the biggest flaws and just looks silly and ugly and so unrealistic that I have no idea how they could be satisfied with that part and say 'okay, this is what it will look like'.

Wheres the weight and force of such a machine? It simply cannot tumble to the ground like a bag of plastic.

It just cant.

I dont care what arguments are thrown in to support the current design....its simply wrong.

One reason why I played and still play l4d2 with frieds, is that its just fun to slice and dice the zombies and the weapon impact and feedback and how zombies tumble back or to the ground or get chopped to pieces is designed very well. Even though its a pretty old game.

Mwos death animatinos are a major design flaw.

its just looks utterly unrealstic and just bad.

Sadly.

I dont care what anybody says. A small mech that is hit with gauss or ac 20 rounds should be smashed back and propelled to the side, loose the arm and overhaul to the ground, skiddering dozens of meters.

A light mech running into a 100 ton mech should be kicked back like a Fußball or get immediatly smashed to tiny bits.

instead, they have a force field, that not even the organic, living space ships used by humans in 1000 years have at their disposal. Reality twisting forcefields that simply negate weight and kinetic force.

Its wrong. Its a bad design. It kills immersion. Its not fun to watch.

Edited by oneda, 01 December 2017 - 04:09 AM.