179 replies to this topic

[JigglyMoobs]

Escef, on 28 November 2017 - 11:56 AM, said:

It has?



According to this it was barely touched (if at all).

So, from the video then, the problem wasn't that the Commando got smaller, it was that the Atlas and some other assaults became bigger and taller, while KDK and Annihilators came in at the new very tall scale.

Perhaps we should be asking to scale some of the larger assaults down in size.

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 28 November 2017 - 04:44 PM.

[Grus]

Yeonne Greene, on 28 November 2017 - 01:50 PM, said:

It was more likely Yoki Lin's fault. There is only one Commando pilot I'm aware of in this game who consistently uses this particular tactic to spectacular effect at Tier 1.

well I've just recently jumped into lightmechs at the end of the season with the T DK and have broken into the top 500 on KD leaderbords. I've had several 1k games in the past few months.

Edited by Grus, 28 November 2017 - 04:45 PM.

[Revis Volek]

Hazeclaw, on 27 November 2017 - 06:28 AM, said:

I would spend every drop looking for an urbie to leg so I can walk around the map kicking a can

I think you just invented the BEST game mode ever for MWO. Kick the Can! (urbie)


Already sounds better then Escort.

[Grus]

JackalBeast, on 27 November 2017 - 04:41 AM, said:

No. Just fix the damn hitboxes or registry, or whatever. Commandos are annoying AF. Not because they can't be hit, but because they don't die when they are hit. Repeatedly.

yeah I've had some crazy games due to this.

[Koniving]

JigglyMoobs, on 28 November 2017 - 02:42 PM, said:

Dude,

For someone who is 25% on Jarl's list you talk awfully big about aim.

I understand you like to play your diversity builds and that drags down your stats and you also do a lot to help new pilots, but maybe less arrogance?

I mentally register fights against some pretty decent light pilots who know how to move and dodge. The rest I simply forget about.

In theory that should only emphasize how easy the solution is. This is a point and click adventure. Minimal bullet drop, instant convergence, no atmospheric effects such as wind or dust interfering with weapons and the target is in front of you. Sure it is below your sight but a Firestarter, 13 meters tall, is too short for a stalker to see at point blank. That is just 0.6 meters shorter than a hunch back. Meaning that more than 35% of mwos mechs are too small by the logic of "I can't see him he is too small." Commandos haven't changed size and people have no trouble dealing with them.

If he is that close he is also probably stationary too. If your ac2s aren't doing it consider lbxs? If we are talking an annihilator where are your arm lasers?

Since the issue is not the much and a scaling up of 20% would make the commando over 10 meters tall and about as wide as a cataphract's 3 torsos... Lets set the commandos bullied me issue aside and focus on the real issue. How did you try to handle the situation? What was your counterplay to the scenario? Did you sit there and take it? Standstill and aim down? Did you try to go forward? Backward? Was the issue that he stayed close and circled you?

What exactly did he do? What exactly did you do?

There are five mechs as tall or shorter than a commando in the game currently. Three of them are 20 tons (this is counting the Pirhana). One is 30 tons and another is 25 tons. Not a single tear is cried about not being able to hit arctic cheetahs, locusts, etc., and the leg hugging thing is over 5 years old and back then we had the same solution. Reverse 15 to 25%, turn in opposition direction against their circle and blast away. Too close? Anticipate his location and aim there with the "o" crosshair. Don't bother with torsos just nail legs. And if there is too much trouble with current arsenal then perhaps the weapons need an antilight option. Pulse lasers do wonders. Streaks are my personal goto when possible.

(Also accuracy is bound to be low if you shoot the air and ground a lot).

Edited by Koniving, 28 November 2017 - 08:24 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Perhaps we should be asking to scale some of the larger assaults down in size.

yep

assaults like the king crab, atlas, etc... could use at least a 10% size reduction

[MechWarrior5152251]

If light mechs were half as cheese as you claim I would expect to see more than 10% of mech drops to be lights.....

[Requiemking]

Revis Volek, on 28 November 2017 - 04:51 PM, said:

I think you just invented the BEST game mode ever for MWO. Kick the Baby! (urbie)


Already sounds better then Escort.

FTFY

[JigglyMoobs]

JigglyMoobs, on 28 November 2017 - 01:32 PM, said:

I only play with instant arms lock, not toggle, and I have at least an ac2 or ac5 on arm mount.

So this was instantly tried the first time it happened.

Guess what? It didn't work, for a pretty amusing annihilator specific reason.

Careful testing on testing grounds later revealed the reason. Ill put up a short video about it.

Here's the video:

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 28 November 2017 - 11:51 PM.

[Vellron2005]

The commando and especially the locust are so small that if they face-hug an assault, the Assault pilot can't see them at all, even when looking down..

It's absurd really..

[DivineTomatoes]

Yet more proof of how incompetent most assault mech pilots are.

Your assault isn't a "I WIN" button, but please continue to cry about a ******* commando, lets get all lights nerfed again because your mind numbingly ********.

[mogs01gt]

Reaver2145, on 30 November 2017 - 06:29 AM, said:

Yet more proof of how incompetent most assault mech pilots are.

Your assault isn't a "I WIN" button, but please continue to cry about a ******* commando, lets get all lights nerfed again because your mind numbingly ********.

Clearly this person totally missed the point of this thread. But when it comes to balance, most people have no clue.

[Bilbo999]

Wintersdark, on 26 November 2017 - 08:04 PM, said:

Yup, this is unacceptable. Limited torso pitch? Too bad. That's a decision you made when building your mech. Impossible to see them and hit them with unlocked arms without fiddly BS? That's a serious problem from a game design perspective. You can't even make realism arguments (even assuming that MWO mechs are as agile as MWO mechs not BT mechs) because if collision worked correctly the assault should be able to crush such a tiny light riding its legs.

Things were so much better when the little ******** just fell over when they tried to hump your legs.

[mogs01gt]

Bilbo999, on 30 November 2017 - 11:23 AM, said:

Things were so much better when the little ******** just fell over when they tried to hump your legs.

There is a lot of truth to this.Smaller Mechs in Lore wouldnt never get close to certain mechs(Atlas, Battlemaster, etc) because one kick or swing of the arm would cripple them. This is why in an FPS/Esport style gameplay, you cant have mechs that cant be aimed at. I've experienced this issue in my Thor. ******* little gnat got so close it caused me to follow the red hit marker with the cross hair because I couldnt see him.

Edited by mogs01gt, 30 November 2017 - 12:06 PM.

[Weeny Machine]

Davegt27, on 26 November 2017 - 02:00 PM, said:

I call it the PGI ninja mentality

people complain that lights are weak and are unbalanced

but what they really mean is they want there light mechs to have the ability to take out any mech

how many times have we seen over the years some light go right after an assault

someone posted last week a link to patch notes from 2014 and to my shock your actually rewarded for shooting
mechs in the back

that is clear ninja mentality

I don't know what the solution is but I have to say
the most fun I have had in this game was light on light combat

not sneaking around killing AFKs or shooting other mechs in the back

You make quite a mistake. There's a handful of light mechs which are in a fine spot. Still, they suffer from the weakness all lights suffer, even a Wolfhound: one good pinpoint alpha of a heavy or assault and the torso is breached.

You are right about flanking and backstabbing. However, there are maps which make it hard when you have an optimal range of 230m

Then there are mechs like some Jenner IIC variants. They are incredible fragile and turn like school buses. Sure, they can pack a punch but the drawbacks are nasty - especially because most of the weapons are in the arms. Last but not least, the trash tier like Huginn etc.

As for our fat overlords, the heavies: Lights have a very hard time when heavy mech pilots show some situational awareness and carry pinpoint damage weapons. Luckily there are a lot of lolalpha laser spammers with tunnel vision.

The point is: the light mech class overall is in NO good shape. There are many which are in dire need of tweaking to make the fun to play and somewhat competitive and the laser spam helps light mechs because it is easier to roll the damage. But god forbid a lolalpha laser spam hits you unaware

Edited by Bush Hopper, 30 November 2017 - 12:10 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

The point is: the light mech class overall is in NO good shape. There are many which are in dire need of tweaking to make the fun to play and somewhat competitive and the laser spam helps light mechs because it is easier to roll the damage. But god forbid a lolalpha laser spam hits you unaware

but as long as the game uses tonnage limits as a metric for how powerful mechs are, why should lights equal other weight classes?

in a faction play dropdeck, a light uses up less tonnage than an assault, so logically it should be less powerful.

and by extension of that same logic, a 100 tonner should be the MOST powerful mech.

if lights are meant to be equal to assaults, then why do assaults cost more tonnage in dropdecks?

Its totally nonsensical. Lights cannot and should not be equal to assaults if assaults cost more drop tonnage than lights.

Edited by Khobai, 30 November 2017 - 12:58 PM.

[mogs01gt]

Khobai, on 30 November 2017 - 12:39 PM, said:

but as long as the game uses tonnage limits as a metric for how powerful mechs are, why should lights equal other weight classes?
in a faction play dropdeck, a light uses up less tonnage than an assault, so logically it should be less powerful.
and by extension of that same logic, a 100 tonner should be the MOST powerful mech.
if lights are meant to be equal to assaults, then why do assaults cost more tonnage in dropdecks?
Its totally nonsensical. Lights cannot be equal to assaults if assaults cost more drop tonnage than lights.

ohh snap! Truth bomb!

[Y E O N N E]

mogs01gt, on 30 November 2017 - 12:58 PM, said:

ohh snap! Truth bomb!

Solo QP doesn't balance by tonnage and is the most-played mode. It balances by class type.

ggclose.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 30 November 2017 - 12:39 PM, said:

but as long as the game uses tonnage limits as a metric for how powerful mechs are, why should lights equal other weight classes?

in a faction play dropdeck, a light uses up less tonnage than an assault, so logically it should be less powerful.

and by extension of that same logic, a 100 tonner should be the MOST powerful mech.

if lights are meant to be equal to assaults, then why do assaults cost more tonnage in dropdecks?

Its totally nonsensical. Lights cannot and should not be equal to assaults if assaults cost more drop tonnage than lights.

You have the order of cause and effect backwards.

Big mechs were not made superior because of dropdecks existing. Rather, dropdeck limits exist solely BECAUSE of the big mechs being innately superior on their own merits (and lack of effort to correct that).

Or, in other words, dropdecks are a symptom of the underlying disease.

Edited by FupDup, 30 November 2017 - 01:35 PM.

[JigglyMoobs]

Yeonne Greene, on 30 November 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:

Solo QP doesn't balance by tonnage and is the most-played mode. It balances by class type.

ggclose.

Yeah. Imagine someone who is of average solo queue skill jumping into that Anni an+ trying to make it work. Not only can they not, they can't even survive long enough to make the wait time worthwhile. Which is why you don't see s lot of those things running around.