179 replies to this topic

[braveheart95]

Just to be clear, not all assaults have weapons in their arms........ ie Banshees..........

[Y E O N N E]

JigglyMoobs, on 27 November 2017 - 07:32 PM, said:

You should not have to require locks to aim your arm reticle at a mech that is directly in front of you.

You do when the floor is opaque. The amount of torso pitch necessary to overcome that issue would have you bending practically 90 degrees at the hips. That is not a viable solution.

[Khobai]

Yeonne Greene, on 27 November 2017 - 08:24 PM, said:

You do when the floor is opaque. The amount of torso pitch necessary to overcome that issue would have you bending practically 90 degrees at the hips. That is not a viable solution.

But the atlas only has a 16 degree pitch now

Thats completely absurd for a mech that has mostly torso weapons

the atlas should have a 25 degree pitch minimum

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Just to be clear, not all assaults have weapons in their arms........ ie Banshees..........

and the banshee is another mech that should have 25 degree pitch

all assaults that rely on torso weapons and dont have jumpjets need to have at least 25 degree torso pitch.

they should not only be able to fight on perfectly level terrain.

Edited by Khobai, 27 November 2017 - 08:43 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 27 November 2017 - 08:38 PM, said:

But the atlas only has a 16 degree pitch now

Thats completely absurd for a mech that has mostly torso weapons

the atlas should have a 25 degree pitch minimum

Sure, but that won't fix the problem in the OP, because the floor is still opaque.

[Khobai]

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Sure, but that won't fix the problem in the OP, because the floor is still opaque.

I dont think the OP's problem is actually a problem though.

But I do think a lot of the atlas'/banshees' actual problems would be fixed if they had 25 degree torso pitch

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 27 November 2017 - 08:48 PM, said:

I dont think the OP's problem is actually a problem though.

But I do think a lot of the atlas'/banshees' actual problems would be fixed if they had 25 degree torso pitch

Then we are on the same page.

Even outside of Assaults, there are a whole host of 'Mechs that are getting screwed by bad torso pitch. Catapult K2, Ember, Roughneck among them.

[Jackal Noble]

Watch, assaults get a 25 degree pitch and next you see a bunch of threads from the other end of the spectrum lol.

[Khobai]

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Watch, assaults get a 25 degree pitch and next you see a bunch of threads from the other end of the spectrum lol.

well it has been a very long time since ive seen an atlases are OP thread

[Y E O N N E]

JackalBeast, on 27 November 2017 - 09:03 PM, said:

Watch, assaults get a 25 degree pitch and next you see a bunch of threads from the other end of the spectrum lol.

The Nightstar and Madcat Mk. II have excellent torso pitch (and yaw!). Why other, less capable Assaults are limited more than those two, I have no idea. Not even the Battlemaster enjoys that kind of...limberness.

[Khobai]

I would guess its for animation reasons

parts of the atlas probably clip through its joints if it tries to pitch more than 16 degrees lol

but id rather have wonky animations than an atlas that cant shoot up or down

Edited by Khobai, 27 November 2017 - 09:22 PM.

[YueFei]

JackalBeast, on 27 November 2017 - 09:03 PM, said:

Watch, assaults get a 25 degree pitch and next you see a bunch of threads from the other end of the spectrum lol.

They shouldn't try to balance Lights vs Assaults via Assault mech torso pitch angle limit, though.

I would hate it for PGI to do something like that, and then declare that since Lights beat Assaults 1v1, that balance between those 2 weight classes has been achieved. That's because this is a team game, and if Lights can't contribute as much towards victory as Assaults, then PGI has failed to deliver on their original premise when they pitched this game to us. And the problem in a team game is that Assaults can form a combat box to cover each other and scrape Lights off of each other. Balance shouldn't revolve around simple-minded 1v1's. PGI's whole design premise for weight class balance is absurd, anyway. They were hoping to achieve:

Assault > Heavy > Medium > Light > Assault

Except that the game isn't a series of Kuritan-style (or Clan Zellbrigen style) 1v1 duels, so even if they accomplished the above, it still wouldn't achieve weight class balance.

Imagine if American Gridiron Football rules were changed so that the field was only 10 yards wide (instead of 53+ yards), and the forward pass was made illegal. All you'd have left were teams stacked entirely with 300+ pound guys on the rosters, and no possibility for speed or finesse to shine. But because you have a wider field, and the threat of a forward pass, you see a variety of athlete body types on the field, and all kinds of evolutions in the movements of the players on the field.

[sceii]

I see here people with assault mechs with high cockpit and weapon mounts complain about problems with point blank range.
Guys, you pick best mechs for hillhumping and want them to be also good with cqc.
I never ever had a problem with any light mech humping my dwf or whk or king crab, yes this mechs do not have so high weapon mounts and cockpit but at least they are not vulnerable to leghumping, think of it as a trade.

[Mole]

Gas Guzzler, on 27 November 2017 - 03:22 PM, said:

Most of the time, the backstab thing doesn't work that well unless you are very isolated OR they catch you in a position where you have to deal with both the backstabber as well as other bigger mechs that can shoot you from another direction, because its just too damn hard to mitigate damage coming from two very different directions.

A common tactic I utilize when backstabbing an enemy 'mech is I get behind enemy lines, and if I have remained unspotted I will wait behind the enemy 'mech until they peek and take some damage to the front and as soon as that happens I dump and alpha into their back. They mistakenly believe that the damage they just recieved was from their front, so they back right into me to take cover without turning around. Then I dump another alpha into their rear and they go down. 90% of the time, it works every time. Though this is entirely dependent on me remaining unspotted.

[mogs01gt]

JigglyMoobs, on 26 November 2017 - 01:37 PM, said:

Since the rescale the size of the commando has become very small. This leads to a problem where if a commando is hugging an assault mech, several types of assault mech, eg annihilators, Cyclops, are actually unable to see the commando from the cockpit or shoot it from torso mounted weapons. Recently, this has lead some people to adopt extremely cheesy leg humping tactics where a commando simply glues itself to the leg of an assault and shoots the assault with srms. This has been made easier with the introduction of stealth armor. A commando can simply arm just enough missile ammo to leg one or two assaults (while devoting all other weight to srms, engines and stealth armor) and suicide attack the slowest mechs on the team.
Even when the slowest assault practices good tactics to move with the team, teammates on the solo queue usually are not aware enough or can aim sufficiently well to help the assault in time.
While each mech has its advantages and disadvantages, and there are blind spots for many mechs, usually those blind spots are highly terrain dependent. There should not be a common situation where a mech can have a large and highly exploitable frontal blind spot versus another mech on level ground, which leads to overly cheesy tactics.
While one could carry more arm weapons, it's often impractical to carry enough firepower, and it still does not solve the visibility problem.
Suggestion: do one of the following:
A: Scale up the commando to be 20% larger, or until whatever size it becomes visible and shootable by all assault mechs at point blank range.
B: increase torso pitch on affected assaults so that they can see and shoot down at commandos effectively at point blank range.

This has always been one of my biggest complaints about lights and why I used to be a medium pilot. Now I just shoot the targets that I can hit, ignore lights and pray I can survive long enough to get a kill or high damage.

[Khobai]

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Guys, you pick best mechs for hillhumping and want them to be also good with cqc.

yeah the atlas is clearly the best hill humping mech

what was I thinking asking for that amazing hillhumping beast to get buffed. youve made me see the error of my thinking.

obviously only mechs with high torso mounted hardpoints shoot get good torso pitch

mechs with low mounted torso hardpoints like the atlas are too good at shooting over hills that giving them half decent torso pitch would be completely OP

the atlas should continue to only be able to shoot at things on perfectly level terrain

Edited by Khobai, 28 November 2017 - 10:08 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Mole, on 28 November 2017 - 08:06 AM, said:

A common tactic I utilize when backstabbing an enemy 'mech is I get behind enemy lines, and if I have remained unspotted I will wait behind the enemy 'mech until they peek and take some damage to the front and as soon as that happens I dump and alpha into their back. They mistakenly believe that the damage they just recieved was from their front, so they back right into me to take cover without turning around. Then I dump another alpha into their rear and they go down. 90% of the time, it works every time. Though this is entirely dependent on me remaining unspotted.

Those are bads that can't notice that they just lost rear armor. I have done that too and it just boggles my mind that they show no sign of noticing me.

[mogs01gt]

Gas Guzzler, on 28 November 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

Those are bads that can't notice that they just lost rear armor. I have done that too and it just boggles my mind that they show no sign of noticing me.

Its like you've never played this game. The game doesnt registered damage all the time. I've completely lost all of my back armor and never received notification of any damage taken.

[Grus]

I have a feeling that this post was my fault...

[Mole]

Gas Guzzler, on 28 November 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

Those are bads that can't notice that they just lost rear armor. I have done that too and it just boggles my mind that they show no sign of noticing me.

Yeah, but when this is the kind of play you encounter on a regular enough basis to make this a fairly reliable tactic, does it really matter if they're bads or not? It works more often than not for me. It probably wouldn't if I were interested in the comp scene, but I'm not. I'm inclined to believe we should stop calling the average majority of players "bads" and just start calling the people who can outplay them "goods" or something.

mogs01gt, on 28 November 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

Its like you've never played this game. The game doesnt registered damage all the time. I've completely lost all of my back armor and never received notification of any damage taken.

That has never once happened to me. And if it has, I didn't notice it because the next thing that happens is lights start flashing, a klaxon sounds, Betty drones at me "Center Torso Critical" and my eyes immediately snap down to my paper doll to see why.

Edited by Mole, 28 November 2017 - 11:44 AM.

[Grus]

The commando is just fine, and so is the Locust, the Assasan needs some size changes.