108 replies to this topic

[General Solo]

Well done PGI

Thx for the Free stuff

[Tavious Grimm]

Well PGI's little whoopsie basically ****** the IS Loyalists...so now both sides have been screwed once, what's next for PGI? Screw us both at once?

[MischiefSC]

I appreciate that they came back and made changes.

There's always criticisms to make but I really, really appreciate that they came back and manually made the adjustments for this, acknowledging that it was intended to be a more Tuk style whoever was winning sort of event.

[Tarl Cabot]

MischiefSC, on 27 November 2017 - 05:19 PM, said:

I appreciate that they came back and made changes.

There's always criticisms to make but I really, really appreciate that they came back and manually made the adjustments for this, acknowledging that it was intended to be a more Tuk style whoever was winning sort of event.

It will be hilarious if the stats reflect that IS had won the most battles. The issue is there is no difference if the event ran for 5 days and hundreds of battles were fought or if PGI set it up for only one battle and winner takes all. That is how Matt/PGI meant to setup the current event in their attempt to prevent any sort of "tie".

Essentially the change from the previous event was too extreme. Based on the screenshot showing that IS had backed it up a total of 6 intervals, if PGI had kept it at 1% Clan would still had won. Instead PGI bent over due to the whining (yes, there was tons of whining) that the last event was not determined by either overall win/loss or by a simple win with the bar read 51/49, all due to there being a tie, which is BS to take a Capitol planet.

But if PGI plans on keeping the new setup, they may as well as award the Clans Luthien so this fraking season is over sooner than later. Then it will be interesting if those IS units decide whether or not it is worth showing up for the next Capitol event. The question is why dont PGI change the tug of war to the simple win for the normal contests? Is there any reason to have the Capitol tug of war so vastly different from the normal tug of war?

Edit - I would not be happy if IS was taking a Clan Capitol and PGI had the settings where all we needed would be 1 win greater than Clans. Drops worth 1% instead of the BS 3.3% set this round. If they wanted to change the win condition from 27 to 20 (80%) I would be fine with that.

Edit again!!!
To put it into perceptive.

• Luthien - 1%/battle - IS was able to take back 23% or 23 battles, with the Clans having only 77% (corrected).
  
• Tharkad - 3.3%/battle - IS took back technically "20%" with only 6 battles, with the Clans having 80%. If PGI had kept the 1% that would have amounted to only 6% with the Clans having 94% of the bar.

33 drops vs 6 drops is a huge difference. Shouldn't we have doubts on how they will setup the next event, this Cloak and Dagger without giving any real information, with each Faction discussing how PGI frak one side or another because they are not forthcoming on the setups? Will the Clanners expect that PGI will keep the simple victory setting that they used for Tharkad, a Capitol planet and if they dont and set it somewhere inbetween the Luthien and Tharkad without giving any details, how will people react then?

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 28 November 2017 - 03:23 PM.

[Tavious Grimm]

It sounds so much simpler that way, a straight win percentage rather then some BS bar. Here is the event it will last for 5-6 days at the end of the event the win/loss percentage will be tallied and the winner declared, doesn't that sound so much easier? Alas my fellow Mechwarriors PGI never learned the value of K.I.S.S.

Keep
It
Simple
Stupid

[Commander A9]

I appreciate Matt Newman's efforts, too. It was really professional of him to fix what was broken.

Edited by Commander A9, 27 November 2017 - 07:36 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Commander A9, on 27 November 2017 - 07:36 PM, said:

I appreciate Matt Newman's efforts, too. It was really professional of him to fix what was broken.

He broke it too much. What he has done is guarantee that Clans will generally win, which he could have done if he had set Tharkad drops to be worth 1% instead of the regular 3.3%, even keeping the 90% rule for total victory. Tharkad would have still been a loss for IS, but a manageable loss. That is the difference between what should have been vs Matts opps.

Even if he had set it correctly, would that had shown up on the tug-of-war bar or would we all have been left clueless until the event was over with? If it would not have been reflected on the bar, that would have been complete BS in itself.

I know Matt is trying but some things should not be left in the dark.

Edit.. Am I starting to sound like A9? I need a drink...

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 27 November 2017 - 08:43 PM.

[Khalcruth]

Commander A9, on 27 November 2017 - 07:36 PM, said:

I appreciate Matt Newman's efforts, too. It was really professional of him to fix what was broken.

No, what would have been professional is to log into his own game, AT ANY POINT AT ALL during the event, look at the bar, and notice that the win condition wasn't reflecting what he intended.

Changing the win conditions after the fact is the exact opposite of professional.

[Asym]

Im not sure who is or is not a clan player? Since so many people played both sides of the event... Am I wrong or does it seem stupid that so many people can and do play both sides making the entire event moot and not relevant?

f

[Tarl Cabot]

Khalcruth, on 27 November 2017 - 08:43 PM, said:

No, what would have been professional is to log into his own game, AT ANY POINT AT ALL during the event, look at the bar, and notice that the win condition wasn't reflecting what he intended.

Changing the win conditions after the fact is the exact opposite of professional.

But would it have mattered? Would the win condition have been reflected on the tug-of-war bar?

[slide]

Asym, on 27 November 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

Im not sure who is or is not a clan player? Since so many people played both sides of the event... Am I wrong or does it seem stupid that so many people can and do play both sides making the entire event moot and not relevant?

Yeah I find this completely ridiculous. If, as has been explained elsewhere the bar is basically being controlled by 1 unit who switched sides mid event, then I think new rules are needed. It basically renders any and all effort put in by loyalists and those who choose a side, moot.

Nothing will stop alt accounts being used but I think all contracts should be locked for the duration of the event. And if the population is too out of whack then PGI needs to incentivise or force Merc units to switch sides.

[A Shoddy Rental Mech]

Well, this thread can be closed now since it is no longer a "tie"

My grandpa used to always say "it's a poor scorekeeper that doesn't win"

He would be proud of PGI changing the "win" conditions a day after the event is over.

[Asym]

slide, on 27 November 2017 - 09:16 PM, said:

Yeah I find this completely ridiculous. If, as has been explained elsewhere the bar is basically being controlled by 1 unit who switched sides mid event, then I think new rules are needed. It basically renders any and all effort put in by loyalists and those who choose a side, moot.

Nothing will stop alt accounts being used but I think all contracts should be locked for the duration of the event. And if the population is too out of whack then PGI needs to incentivise or force Merc units to switch sides.

Lets be blunt here. The same 200 +/- (or 600, pick a number) players played this event and a majority of them played the event at least twice and sometime 3 or 4 times using alternative accounts. Any event that has "sides" is hosed in MWO due to alternative accounts. I'm guessing as to the numbers but I'd wager a small group of pilots wrecked any chance of a "fair or balanced" outcome because they played so many sides.... God knows the real numbers but PGI has got to think this through a little bit more the next time or it's just "free stuff" that we're playing for and the rest, clans or IS or mercenaries is just foo-foo and silly.... So sad.

[naterist]

aw, this thread.

first half
IS:makes sense, wow we busted *** in the last few hours to save the steiners. strat 4 lyfe.
clans:waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


second half
IS: wtf, why should we even show up for the next one if your just gonna change the rules last second for a clan win, this is ********
clans: we won? oh ok. ya, this is totally fair. good job us. we are the champions, my friiiiiieeeeeeeeenddddddsss (guitar riff)

[MischiefSC]

naterist, on 28 November 2017 - 12:55 PM, said:

aw, this thread.

first half
IS:makes sense, wow we busted *** in the last few hours to save the steiners. strat 4 lyfe.
clans:waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


second half
IS: wtf, why should we even show up for the next one if your just gonna change the rules last second for a clan win, this is ********
clans: we won? oh ok. ya, this is totally fair. good job us. we are the champions, my friiiiiieeeeeeeeenddddddsss (guitar riff)

More to the point -

Clans win 90% - WTF you mean, the IS only has to win 10% in the last hour of the event and they just win the season?

IS: Hey, we won 10%, that's as good a victory as we've had in a long time. That makes it a tie, which, again, is just like us winning! YAY!

*things change to just reflect who won the majority and who lost the majority*

Clans - Whew, I was worried that somehow we didn't win. PGI has left balance broke as **** so that my side always wins. Why would someone play Clans if it wasn't stacked to help them win?

IS - WTF? 10% is as much of a win as we ever get! We got a tie, which from our perspective is as close to winning as we're allowed! Give us our tie-that-we-feel-like-a-winner-with back!

[ccrider]

No, no mischief, it's more like:

IS: our only hope of "winning" the season is just to tie 3 capitals cause we are sure as hell not taking a clan one.

Clan: We will literally walk away from FP and go play Facebook games if IS staya all OP AF and wins 1 phase and manages a ****** event tie.

Dear Coordinator: hahaha clan turnip farmers. Vatborn dogs need programmer to help take capital. Mighty Bushido warriors win on strength of steel, bravery and the power derived from harvesting wet dog clanner scum. Go back to bash rock, leave fighting for mighty Dragon.


I think I gotta ditch CbR3 and move to CbR2 and be a kuritan. This FRR icon just ain't working.

Edited by ccrider, 28 November 2017 - 02:36 PM.

[MischiefSC]

ccrider, on 28 November 2017 - 02:35 PM, said:

No, no mischief, it's more like:

IS: our only hope of "winning" the season is just to tie 3 capitals cause we are sure as hell not taking a clan one.

Clan: We will literally walk away from FP and go play Facebook games if IS staya all OP AF and wins 1 phase and manages a ****** event tie.

Dear Coordinator: hahaha clan turnip farmers. Vatborn dogs need programmer to help take capital. Mighty Bushido warriors win on strength of steel, bravery and the power derived from harvesting wet dog clanner scum. Go back to bash rock, leave fighting for mighty Dragon.


I think I gotta ditch CbR3 and move to CbR2 and be a kuritan. This FRR icon just ain't working.

I don't know what's worse. That IS is was happy and excited because the game balance is so absolutely ******* broken that it's exciting and noteworthy when IS manages to pull out 10% wins over a couple of hours and considers that a 'win', or that there's so many terribad, shallow, munchkin clan players who would quit the moment the game isn't broken in their favor so bad that they're going to win no matter how bad they play.

It's sad and frustrating. I firmly, firmly believe that if you fix balance and just say "LOL BYE!" to the people who quit because the game is actually balanced you'll end up with more total players who are happy spending more total money.

Anyone who would quit because they're not OP can go **** off. Nothing of value would be lost.

[Tarl Cabot]

The Season is setup with 3 possible outcomes, just like the FP tug of war bar (normal/Luthien, not the BS Tharkad):

• Clan wins if they surround then allowed to attack and conquer 3 of 5 IS CAPITOLS
  
• IS wins if they surround then allowed to attack/conquer 1 of # Clan CAPITOL
  
• Stalemate if one side fails the above criteria first.

So say IS prevents another Capitol from being surrounded then progresses to the Clan worlds. If they lose/stalemate the first one, then it is off to the next one, etc. If IS attempts and fails to conquer (stalemate-tie/loss) one of the listed Clan Capitols before the Clans can attempt to conquer 3 IS Capitols, the season is other with, it becomes a Stalemate.

Nor do we actually know HOW PGI will process then. If IS or Clan wins, map reset? If stalemate, does map reset or do the parties keep hold of their planets but previous Capitols are opened back up? We keep assuming too much and PGI keeps changing/altering the outcome and expectations.

[ccrider]

MischiefSC, on 28 November 2017 - 03:35 PM, said:

I don't know what's worse. That IS is was happy and excited because the game balance is so absolutely ******* broken that it's exciting and noteworthy when IS manages to pull out 10% wins over a couple of hours and considers that a 'win', or that there's so many terribad, shallow, munchkin clan players who would quit the moment the game isn't broken in their favor so bad that they're going to win no matter how bad they play.

It's sad and frustrating. I firmly, firmly believe that if you fix balance and just say "LOL BYE!" to the people who quit because the game is actually balanced you'll end up with more total players who are happy spending more total money.

Anyone who would quit because they're not OP can go **** off. Nothing of value would be lost.

I will say that the IS pugs were far more willing to cooperate this event. That is noteworthy. The problem is that balance is so garbage that if 12 random clan players simply build their mechs correctly, they stand a good chance of beating an average IS 12 man. Even without coordinating. If the same scenario played out for IS players, they would get steam rolled by a garbage clan unit. However, the real difference is that IS players will continue to queue up no matter how far the blue bar gets crammed up our rumps. As soon as the yellow bar hits 70 or so, all the drops dry up and you can't get a match unless you get lucky and manage to drop against Kcom or Evil and then keep dropping against each other. That's sad. I'd make an abusive relationship joke here but A it's tasteless and B it hits to close to the truth at this point in "balance." There is literally no phase anymore that IS is best at. Brawling? Nope, linebackers, Mad Iics or Orion Iics can wreck face. Midrange? Haha haha. Long range? Again, if anyone thinks the 1 percent damage IS puts out at max range is scary, they are bad. Within 800 meters, every trade is going to go clans way in a match of even skill. I don't want broken thunderwubs back, or the 3 months of mega quirks that were ridiculous. But something needs to change so that IS has options beyond nailbiter, getting their asses whipped or hoping for a garbage LRM pug team to stomp.


Also, die clanner!


P.S. how's your Clan Davion hair doing mischief? I've found FRR mead works great as a conditioner
I can hook you up if you're lie on product.

[McGoat]

I'd wager IS won more than 10% of the matches - it just wasn't enough conservatively after MS switched.