79 replies to this topic

[Jackal Noble]

I'm going a bit Sixth here I know, but here me out.
What if because of how lock obviously changes the mechanics of missile spread and trajectory, etc. could be used to alter the spread behavior of Lbxes? That's to say, we know at this point of the apparent inability to make switchable ammo, I'm proposing a compromise of sorts; one which might just require a simple edit.
On lock with target, reduce lbx spread to 0(or 0.1 or 0.2) I would think a 0 spread would be fine, but in the case of making slight different than the AC10 of both sides.
Bear in mind when commenting this is to present a feasible or workable alternative to the current and imo incomplete lbx cannons that would also actually increase their performance. We can talk about reticules later lol.
Thoughts?

Edited by JackalBeast, 23 November 2017 - 08:18 AM.

[GrimReaper74]

How about no?
Yes, the LBX have spreaded damage, but they still are direct fire autocannons. They are not subjected to Ghost heat, they have increased crit chance per pellet against internal structure.

[Jackal Noble]

GrimReaper74, on 23 November 2017 - 07:41 AM, said:

How about no?
Yes, the LBX have spreaded damage, but they still are direct fire autocannons. They are not subjected to Ghost heat, they have increased crit chance per pellet against internal structure.

And what I'm proposing you can still fire them as such. OK dude, I'm presenting a workaround for a weapon system, that per lore has switchable ammo. I don't know how familiar you are with this game, the discussions on the forums regarding balance and gameplay behavior (cue in the gif of the guy saying lbxes are good for crits).
K, so we can't have switchable ammo on Lbx cannons - PGI says it can't figure out how to code them right or some such.
My alternative workaround would make the lbx system we have in place perform inherently better, and you don't want that.
Annnnd finally, no. Lbxes are not a good weapon system. They are garbage. Not light Gauss bottom of the trashcan garbage but close. All direct fire systems are better. (Unless you can't aim) The lb20X/SRm Scorch? You know why? No ghost heat, but more importantly it's because the other Clan 20 class weapons suck.

Edited by JackalBeast, 23 November 2017 - 08:16 AM.

[Jackal Noble]

The time for lock would be like the time needed to switch ammo types.

[Uncle Stickyfinger]

Personally I'd like the LBX to fire cluster rounds as normal on a trigger press, but to give them a charge up bar like gauss that reduces spread while you charge. And if you wait too long, it goes into cooldown. The lock on idea could work too but I feel like that would make your playstyle too dependent on the lock-on (assuming it'd work like the missile one). Could you get free slug-fire on narc'd targets? Does ecm limit you to only cluster fire? I'd like a solution that still lets me have total control over how my weapons behave.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Actually, I kinda like it. It gives Clans their single slug ACs, but with a drawback that's actually, well, a drawback. So long as they remove CACs at the same time (since this pseudo ammo-swap means we don't need them as placeholders).

[Tarogato]

If LBX had a lock-on mechanic, I would stop using them immediately. I hate the lock-ons in this game, it adds an ugly huge indicator to your crosshair that makes aiming feel clunkier than it is.


Plus, I'd rather just balance LBX the way it is. In general, imo, they need more crit DPS, and the LB5 needs to have tighter spread in particular, and potentially they all need slightly lower heat and faster cool down overall. Heck, I'd settle for the same or worse spread for all of them, if they just dealt better straight up DPS than standard ACs.

[KodiakGW]

How about we just make the spread nodes better than the anemic 5% (max 10%)?

Oh, that’s right #spreadsheets say people are taking them.

[Jackal Noble]

Uncle Stickyfinger, on 23 November 2017 - 08:31 AM, said:

Personally I'd like the LBX to fire cluster rounds as normal on a trigger press, but to give them a charge up bar like gauss that reduces spread while you charge. And if you wait too long, it goes into cooldown. The lock on idea could work too but I feel like that would make your playstyle too dependent on the lock-on (assuming it'd work like the missile one). Could you get free slug-fire on narc'd targets? Does ecm limit you to only cluster fire? I'd like a solution that still lets me have total control over how my weapons behave.

Ya and I'm with ya on that, it's just that never gained any traction. I think a change choke mechanic would pretty sweet. Others, including myself have discussed that before. Again, no traction.

[Jackal Noble]

Tarogato, on 23 November 2017 - 08:37 AM, said:

If LBX had a lock-on mechanic, I would stop using them immediately. I hate the lock-ons in this game, it adds an ugly huge indicator to your crosshair that makes aiming feel clunkier than it is.


Plus, I'd rather just balance LBX the way it is. In general, imo, they need more crit DPS, and the LB5 needs to have tighter spread in particular, and potentially they all need slightly lower heat and faster cool down overall. Heck, I'd settle for the same or worse spread for all of them, if they just dealt better straight up DPS than standard ACs.

Primary (preferred) - charge to choke
Secondary (alt) - lock to drastically reduce spread
Ya, I agree the targeting reticule is a bit over the top. That could be fixed too.

[VonBruinwald]

Personally I think LBX's need to be a hybrid shotgun/slug-AC.

Split the damage between slug and cannister. Taking the LBX10 as an example:

It would fire a single slug for 5 damage which is ppfd,
AND
It fires 10 pellets that deal 0.5 damage with scatter,
SIMULTANEOUSLY!

It would mechanically be the same as firing an AC5 and the current LBX5 together.

Edited by VonBruinwald, 23 November 2017 - 10:47 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Hmmm, buck-and-ball.

I actually really like that.

LB-2X is just two tightly grouped pellets dealing 1-damage each.

LB-5X is a 2 damage slug flanked by three 1-damage pellets.

LB-10X is a 5 damage slug flanked by five 1-damage pellets.

LB-20X is a 10 damage slug flanked by ten 1-damage pellets.

Make it so!

[Mochyn Pupur]

No - if you want pin point damage - then its AC/UAC. If you close range to sub 100m, then spread is minimal as you would expect from a shotgun effect weapon.

[Jackal Noble]

VonBruinwald, on 23 November 2017 - 10:47 AM, said:

Personally I think LBX's need to be a hybrid shotgun/slug-AC.

Split the damage between slug and cannister. Taking the LBX10 as an example:

It would fire a single slug for 5 damage which is ppfd,
AND
It fires 10 pellets that deal 0.5 damage with scatter,
SIMULTANEOUSLY!

It would mechanically be the same as firing an AC5 and the current LBX5 together.

Ya that's actually a pretty neat compromise on a compromise. Neat idea. Also I like it better than the Gauss hitscan idea

[Khobai]

No.

1) it makes standard autocannons obsolete. Right now standard ACs are for punching armor.

2) LBX have no ghost heat, and putting ghost heat on LBX would make firing cluster rounds pointless, since the only thing that makes cluster rounds somewhat viable is not having ghost heat.

3) it diminishes the whole purpose of LBX which is to be crit seeking/internal structure destroying weapon (and quite frankly LBX should be better at that then it currently is). LBX is not supposed to be good at punching through armor.

4) charge mechanic is !@#$ing awful. we need less of it not more.

Edited by Khobai, 23 November 2017 - 12:46 PM.

[FupDup]

Somebody in the past suggested that LBX's use the Clan ERPPC's splash mechanic, dealing some damage to the hitbox you aim at and then dealing damage to the two adjacent hitboxes. This would simulate the spread effect with the key difference of being consistent across all ranges rather than being dependent on CQB.

I'd suggest that it should only apply to Clan LBX's though since they aren't supposed to have normal ACs, and this mechanic would let them fulfill a role halfway between LBX and AC.

IS LBX's can get other treatment like pellet damage.

[Jackal Noble]

Khobai, on 23 November 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

No.

1) it makes standard autocannons obsolete. Right now standard ACs are for punching armor.

2) LBX have no ghost heat, and putting ghost heat on LBX would make firing cluster rounds pointless, since the only thing that makes cluster rounds somewhat viable is not having ghost heat.

3) it diminishes the whole purpose of LBX which is to be crit seeking/internal structure destroying weapon (and quite frankly LBX should be better at that then it currently is). LBX is not supposed to be good at punching through armor.

4) charge mechanic is !@#$ing awful. we need less of it not more.

Just trying to come up with a less obfuscated bandaid.
First off there were a couple of things to make that charge choke mechanic ideal - you want to fire the way it is/was? Toggle to auto. No charge mechanic to worry about and the gun fires as it currently does.. Otherwise- manual fire where the longer you hold the charge, say 2.75-3 seconds to go from default spread up 0% spread at full charge.(also keeps 2.5 s AC10 relevant). Think like the toggle for ECM, or AMS.
Didn't think it was that complicated of an idea and gives was pretty much a bland weapon an interesting mechanic.

Edited by JackalBeast, 23 November 2017 - 01:20 PM.

[Khobai]

LBX just needs to be better at what its supposed to be good at: sandblasting.

It needs a 10%-20% damage per pellet increase and an increased crit multiplier of x2.5 or x3 instead of x2.

[VonBruinwald]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 November 2017 - 10:49 AM, said:

Hmmm, buck-and-ball.

I actually really like that.

LB-2X is just two tightly grouped pellets dealing 1-damage each.

LB-5X is a 2 damage slug flanked by three 1-damage pellets.

LB-10X is a 5 damage slug flanked by five 1-damage pellets.

LB-20X is a 10 damage slug flanked by ten 1-damage pellets.

Make it so!

Dividing the pellets into 0.5dmg make's it simpler, 2/5/10/20, the same as current LBXs and the same as the weapons rating. Would also be a bit easier to implement as you can use the current lbx settings with the only change being damage dealt and it's just a matter of adding the slug.

Edited by VonBruinwald, 23 November 2017 - 01:26 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

VonBruinwald, on 23 November 2017 - 01:25 PM, said:

Dividing the pellets into 0.5dmg make's it simpler, 2/5/10/20, the same as current LBXs and the same as the weapons rating. Would also be a bit easier to implement as you can use the current lbx settings with the only change being damage dealt and it's just a matter of adding the slug.

Having lots of projectiles is harder on the server, though, hence me keeping it down. Doesn't matter much in terms of combat performance.