36 replies to this topic

[Bragg936]

MWO seems to be very dependent on hardcore battletech fans, that either played or read the novels, which is a shame becuse the core gameplay is very enjoyable (killing mechs is just pure fun)

A critical component in the abillity of an MMO to retain new players that try the game is the lore building and backstory. MWO has a complete lack of context behind almost every ingame mech, faction or weapon for new players.

While the avalible infomation on mechs and Battletech in general is exstensive online, the amount avalible in game is pitiful (see Destiny 1 for a similar situation). The offical wiki is even out of date.

Put bluntly PGI does a **** job at worldbuilding the MWO universe to new players.

• There is almost no "lore" in game,
  
• Factions are very poorly characterised, about the only thing they have is the blurb when you join a fp
  
• Planets are little more than points on a map in FP
  
• There is almost no background info on specific mechs and variants
  
• Hero mechs have a name but no in game story

For an IP that is as rich and deep as Battletech, the lack of content in MWO is truly shocking and a huge detriment to the game.

Contrast the amount of lore and story in MWO with any other MMO. To even call MWO an MMO is almost mislabeling it , the game is far closer to a MOBA in practise.

Here are a number of suggestions that would really enhance the world building

Faction play

• Intro cinimatics if you join a faction (includeing a merc one and a one for freelance)
  
• Planet descriptions with as much relevent background lore (such as factories, home of merc units, famous characters)
  
• Vary the above by faction (not all of it but if you click on wolf homeworld as jade falcon you get a put down piece)
  
• Clicking on either Terra, comstar or the clan homeworld gives you a audio log covering the Arimis cival war and the Exodus

Mech Bay area

• History of each Mech and varient (production, usage)
  
• Weapon history's (production, usage)
  
• Hero mech Stories (preferably voiced)
  
• Tier the above infomation based on play time with said mech or weapon

Content and major changes (this would be a strech, but would greatly exspand the MWO game)

• Hero mech missions (1 mission per match PVE themed to that mech's heroic deeds)
  
• PVE missions (survival, bounty hunt, armoured warefare does ok PVE)

I can think of a few more spitballs but they need some work.

In summery the critical failing of PGI is the complete faliure to endear a new player to the battletech universe, which is ultimatly hurting player retention.

PS. I am still encountering frequent disconnects to MWO servers, this remains a problem (yet can remain connected for all 10mins of my timeout penalty, go firgure)

[Bud Crue]

Bragg936, on 29 November 2017 - 09:13 AM, said:

To even call MWO an MMO is almost mislabeling it , the game is far closer to a MOBA in practise.

Yes.
Out of curiosity, where did you get the impression that MWO was considered an MMO? It certainly isn’t “massive” for starters. Just wondering if such a label was in an old review or something. I’ve always thought of MWO as nothing more than an arena shooter with aspirations/delusions of grandeur.

As to the rest of your OP. Folks have been complaining/observing for years about the lack of lore, immersion and even a tangential link to the “rich Battletech Universe” that PGI claims as a setting for this game. Don’t see anything changing in that regard, ever. That ship has sailed and the only “lore” you are going to get is the little vignettes they write up for new Hero mechs. That’s it. Even most planets including many of the most lore significant ones are still “planetary information unknown”.
PGI paid for the license, its their choice to only focus on the mechs within that IP and ignore the rest. Just don’t think about the lost potential, and it makes the rest of the short comings of this here arena shooter much more tolerable.

Edited by Bud Crue, 29 November 2017 - 09:42 AM.

[Khobai]

faction warfare does a poor job of characterizing factions

each faction should only have access to mechs and technologies associated with that faction

unless you capture facilities that give you access to other mechs/tech

factions should feel different instead of just all being generic

Edited by Khobai, 29 November 2017 - 09:45 AM.

[Tom Sawyer]

Bud Crue, on 29 November 2017 - 09:41 AM, said:

Yes.
Out of curiosity, where did you get the impression that MWO was considered an MMO? It certainly isn’t “massive” for starters. Just wondering if such a label was in an old review or something. I’ve always thought of MWO as nothing more than an arena shooter with aspirations/delusions of grandeur.

As to the rest of your OP. Folks have been complaining/observing for years about the lack of lore, immersion and even a tangential link to the “rich Battletech Universe” that PGI claims as a setting for this game. Don’t see anything changing in that regard, ever. That ship has sailed and the only “lore” you are going to get is the little vignettes they write up for new Hero mechs. That’s it. Even most planets including many of the most lore significant ones are still “planetary information unknown”.
PGI paid for the license, its their choice to only focus on the mechs within that IP and ignore the rest. Just don’t think about the lost potential, and it makes the rest of the short comings of this here arena shooter much more tolerable.

LIES! Guards remove that Bud guy and strap him into the comfy chair for re programing!

[Bud Crue]

Tom Sawyer, on 29 November 2017 - 09:47 AM, said:

LIES! Guards remove that Bud guy and strap him into the comfy chair for re programing!

Indeed. I’m not worried though. There’s a planet called “Terra” that I can go hide on. Its unknown so they will never find me!

[Koniving]

Bragg936, on 29 November 2017 - 09:13 AM, said:

MWO seems to be very dependent on hardcore battletech fans, that either played or read the novels, which is a shame becuse the core gameplay is very enjoyable (killing mechs is just pure fun)

A critical component in the abillity of an MMO to retain new players that try the game is the lore building and backstory. MWO has a complete lack of context behind almost every ingame mech, faction or weapon for new players.

While the avalible infomation on mechs and Battletech in general is exstensive online, the amount avalible in game is pitiful (see Destiny 1 for a similar situation). The offical wiki is even out of date.

Put bluntly PGI does a **** job at worldbuilding the MWO universe to new players.

• There is almost no "lore" in game,
  
• Factions are very poorly characterised, about the only thing they have is the blurb when you join a fp
  
• Planets are little more than points on a map in FP
  
• There is almost no background info on specific mechs and variants
  
• Hero mechs have a name but no in game story

For an IP that is as rich and deep as Battletech, the lack of content in MWO is truly shocking and a huge detriment to the game.


Contrast the amount of lore and story in MWO with any other MMO. To even call MWO an MMO is almost mislabeling it , the game is far closer to a MOBA in practise.

Here are a number of suggestions that would really enhance the world building

Faction play

• Intro cinimatics if you join a faction (includeing a merc one and a one for freelance)
  
• Planet descriptions with as much relevent background lore (such as factories, home of merc units, famous characters)
  
• Vary the above by faction (not all of it but if you click on wolf homeworld as jade falcon you get a put down piece)
  
• Clicking on either Terra, comstar or the clan homeworld gives you a audio log covering the Arimis cival war and the Exodus

Mech Bay area

• History of each Mech and varient (production, usage)
  
• Weapon history's (production, usage)
  
• Hero mech Stories (preferably voiced)
  
• Tier the above infomation based on play time with said mech or weapon

Content and major changes (this would be a strech, but would greatly exspand the MWO game)

• Hero mech missions (1 mission per match PVE themed to that mech's heroic deeds)
  
• PVE missions (survival, bounty hunt, armoured warefare does ok PVE)

I can think of a few more spitballs but they need some work.


In summery the critical failing of PGI is the complete faliure to endear a new player to the battletech universe, which is ultimatly hurting player retention.

PS. I am still encountering frequent disconnects to MWO servers, this remains a problem (yet can remain connected for all 10mins of my timeout penalty, go firgure)

Much as I love this, the only two I would have expected of PGI is the Intro cinematic to each faction (examples that come to mind as below) and planet info.

The rest is perhaps a bit excessive, though mech information for each variant, to include the INTENDED ROLES set by PGI (not Battletech) as a way of giving players an idea of what the mech is meant for in PGI's eyes would be good to have.

[Spheroid]

Welcome to the Brotherhood of Salt, acolyte.

[Koniving]

Also without weapon variants, the weapon history tidbit is absolutely pointless. Instead of over 66 completely unique variants of IS medium laser as Battletech has, produced by different companies with different per second stats and different attributes that all fall 'roughly' within 4-6 damage in 10 seconds for 2-4 heat in 10 seconds and generally weigh a single ton... we have a single medium laser that does 5 damage with each firing.

No Rassal Blu Beam, the most powerful single shot laser to exist (before the Bombast Laser), which is a 240 meter full damage in a single 0.1 second beam after a 0.6 second firing delay, and a 9.3 second mandatory cooldown time, with a total of 5 different drawbacks (I'm not doing links to every effect this time, I did that not long before and you're welcome to google Koniving Rassal Blu Beam to get those links) including that it knocks out the sensors, has a poor cooling jacket (extra heat) which diminishes after a certain number of uses (producing twice as much extra heat), is inaccurate and another flaw that escapes me.

No Victory Nickel Alloy ER Large Lasers, delivering 4 damage per shot with the possibility of doing 3 shots in 10 seconds if the weapons are pushed into the risk of the lasers themselves [not the mech] overheating (Atlas K), otherwise just limited to two for the classic tabletop 8 damage IS large lasers. (Also used by the Mauler)

No Deathgiver 120mm 3 shot burst, 12 shot cassette-fed rapid delivery, long reloading AC/20s King Crab 000 with the common ability under the Rapid Fire Autocannons rule to compete with UAC/20s at the risk of weapon or even mech damage in addition to jam risks to churn out 40 damage per AC/20...
...versus the King Crab 0000's "downgraded" Imperator-D 80mm belt-fed AC/20s with slower MWO RAC-like delivery but no down time and if the weapon heat itself is carefully managed, could churn out around 50 damage and skirt on the edge of those risks as a sort of edge up against its much more rapidly delivered damage, less face-timed 'superior' cousin of old.

So without the variants, weapon lore and details are completely worthless in MWO and would basically surmise as "Its a medium laser. No really, that's it." Not much point.

Edited by Koniving, 29 November 2017 - 10:26 AM.

[Davegt27]

I would take more immersion over pure lore any day

most of our problems could be solved with more drop ships taking off and landing lol

http://cfw.sarna.net...=20141114204659

[Khobai]

we need a union dropship defense gamemode

where one team has to defend a union dropship and the other team has to attack it and destroy its engines before it can refuel and launch

there could be two capturable refueling depots that would speed up or slow down the rate the dropship refuels at depending which team controls them. That would help split up the defenders because the dropship wouldnt be able to refuel if they dont control at least one of the depots.

and once the dropship reaches a certain fuel level (say 50%) its weapons would start to power up which would be really bad for the attackers.

the dropship could have all its weapons in 3 destroyable turrets, one in each 120 degree arc, and the turrets would have like 1 PPC, 2 AC5s, 2 LRM20s, 4 MLs, and 1-2 LLs. So destroying the turrets before they power up would probably be a good idea.

more objective-based gamemodes like that would add a lot more immersion to the game

Edited by Khobai, 29 November 2017 - 10:28 AM.

[naterist]

remember when they told pcgamer they care about the "little details" for mw5s lore


lol. its cause they dont know any of the big details.

[knight-of-ni]

Ah, there you go thinking too deeply about MWO's shortcomings. I recommend you drink the Koolaid like the rest of us, and enjoy MWO for what it is, warts included.

Drop -> shoot stuff -> Rinse & Repeat

After 5 years that is still all we have, and in my opinion that isn't going to change.

Perhaps some future version or iteration of MWO will have the element of immersion, in a multiplayer setting, many of us crave.

Who knows, maybe something new and interesting will be announced at Mech Con in a couple weeks.

Edited by knnniggett, 29 November 2017 - 12:13 PM.

[Bud Crue]

naterist, on 29 November 2017 - 10:26 AM, said:

remember when they told pcgamer they care about the "little details" for mw5s lore


lol. its cause they dont know any of the big details.

Now , now, lets not disparage unjustly. PCgamer is the one who made the characterization that Russ Bullock was all about the little details. Russ nor anyone else at PGI made such a claim. The fact that the writer of the article made that assertion is proof positive that he had no clue about Russ or PGI’s current product of MWO, that’s all.

[Lootee]

You have e-sports on your island. Who needs lore?

Wanna buy a mech pack?

[gooddragon2]

It's somewhat balanced even with the purchasable mechs (so far anyways). That's all I care about. I can't even say I'd like more weapon types. It's like counter strike source vs Dota 2 in terms of match time and customizability. Not too short matches and you don't get one shotted unless you done goofed bad. If you play qp you can get away with a lot of stuff too (like a max sensor range raven that has only 3 small lasers ).

Edited by gooddragon2, 29 November 2017 - 11:33 AM.

[MechaBattler]

If they actually cared about lore. They could sell things for loyalty points. Such as facton HUDs, faction voice over, and faction geometry. Maybe even faction hangers? Hangers seem silly to me, but whatever. Could also have the pilot look like a faction specific cooling suit.

[TLBFestus]

MMO in this case Bud stands for Minor Multiplayer Online game.

PGI figured out a long time ago that they do not need to provide a bunch of "lore" to the player base because that base is full of people who already know more about it than they do, so why bother?

This player base drank the kool-aid a long time ago, and PGI has never been able to figure out how to attract and keep a significant number of new players. At least that's what I see. Trying to create an atmosphere revolving around the Battletech Universe seems beyond them.

[Bragg936]

Bud Crue, on 29 November 2017 - 09:41 AM, said:

Yes.
Out of curiosity, where did you get the impression that MWO was considered an MMO? It certainly isn’t “massive” for starters. Just wondering if such a label was in an old review or something. I’ve always thought of MWO as nothing more than an arena shooter with aspirations/delusions of grandeur.

As to the rest of your OP. Folks have been complaining/observing for years about the lack of lore, immersion and even a tangential link to the “rich Battletech Universe” that PGI claims as a setting for this game. Don’t see anything changing in that regard, ever. That ship has sailed and the only “lore” you are going to get is the little vignettes they write up for new Hero mechs. That’s it. Even most planets including many of the most lore significant ones are still “planetary information unknown”.
PGI paid for the license, its their choice to only focus on the mechs within that IP and ignore the rest. Just don’t think about the lost potential, and it makes the rest of the short comings of this here arena shooter much more tolerable.

I think back when it launched it was branded as an MMO, and MMORPG has sorta morphed into MMO as short form.

The main thing about the top half of my suggestion is that text based descriptive stuff should be really easy to add to the game. I mean its a text box! dont tell me they have an engine limit on those.

WOW is a prime example of an MMO that really thrives on its lore, alot of people really care about the storys behind characters and quests. If you want to pick a free to play that does lore really well, go look at Wareframe. Story missions like the second dream are amazeing and really build your character and exspand what you know about the world.

MechaBattler, on 29 November 2017 - 11:40 AM, said:

If they actually cared about lore. They could sell things for loyalty points. Such as facton HUDs, faction voice over, and faction geometry. Maybe even faction hangers? Hangers seem silly to me, but whatever. Could also have the pilot look like a faction specific cooling suit.

That would be amazeing, I can see that being a major cash sink for alot of players if misused by PGI.

Edited by Bragg936, 29 November 2017 - 11:47 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Bragg936, on 29 November 2017 - 11:44 AM, said:

I think back when it launched it was branded as an MMO, and MMORPG has sorta morphed into MMO as short form.

The main thing about the top half of my suggestion is that text based descriptive stuff should be really easy to add to the game. I mean its a text box! dont tell me they have an engine limit on those.

WOW is a prime example of an MMO that really thrives on its lore, alot of people really care about the storys behind characters and quests. If you want to pick a free to play that does lore really well, go look at Wareframe. Story missions like the second dream are amazeing and really build your character and exspand what you know about the world.

Yep. Its mostly just text and yes it would be a simple matter to create and put into the game. Since I’ve been playing several people, including myself, have volunteered to create such text for PGI for free. From weapons and mech descriptions, to planetary information, to the background for CW events. All such offers have been ignored by PGI over the years. They just are not interested in this aspect of the IP. Like TLBFestus said above, much of the base of the player community probably knows more about the lore and background of the IP than PGI does, so PGI may very well just figure there is no point to putting it in. But yeah that lack of even a hint of immersion or even mere setting does nothing to address the NPE concerns you raise in the OP. I can only conclude that hereto PGI doesn’t think its worth doing or relevant to player attraction/retention. Shrug.

[Tarogato]

naterist, on 29 November 2017 - 10:26 AM, said:

remember when they told pcgamer they care about the "little details" for mw5s lore

Like in the recent MW5 gameplay footage, you're fighting against House Liao and the first mech you see is a Catapult? Less than 1% of Capellan mechs were Catapults - they were rare. And a Jager? That's less common than a Catapult (they actually fielded more Scorpion quads than Jagers.) Atlas? Twice as rare as the Jager. Where's the the Wasps, the Crusaders, the Stingers, the Vindicators... you know, THE most common mechs fielded by the Capellans? At least the LOCUST is a pretty common Capellan mech.

Oh right, MWO had to forget about the the rest of the succession wars mechs and forge ahead to the clan invasion to get people to whale money on 3050 era chassis. -__-