70 replies to this topic

[Garagano]

I just played against someone who was explicitly bunny hopping to prevent being hit and I am curious what the community thinks about things like this. Is this "OK" just because this is "in the game" and not thus not a exploit and not considered as cheating? I dont want to name-shame so i dont mention names, but i have a video.

Some of the light mechs are already hard to hit, due to broken hit boxes. If someone, even in Tier1, uses bunny hopping to prevent being hit, this is just lame and a bad player to me. I am not speaking about long JJ burns, what i mean here are very short JJ burns to trick the game engine, so shots are not applied to the mechs' hit boxes.

[Bud Crue]

I have always thought of this as the primary reason to take JJs in the first place: to spread damage vertically. I didn’t know this played some kind of “trick” on the game engine.

[Omaha]

I think the "trick" he is referring is the mech jump animation? Some mech exhibit a "hopping" like animation when tapping jj's. IE: The old school timberwolf.

I'm guilty myself of using this technique. But I like 3/4 burning jj's better, I'm a pop-tarter what can I say.

I'm at a weird place about it. Because jj's were built in the game for a reason. Personally I like the older way of jj's b4 highlander nerf. I liked the faster jump blasts, and faster animations. But there is something bitter tasting when your shooting someone and u do see the bunny hopping. Only a few mechs actually do the hop.

I'll have to define this as what it actually is. It's exploiting the initial seconds of the animation period. Now I don't think it's considered illegal. But there are those that do use it how it's not meant to be used.

Best thing to do is document all the chassis that exhibit this symptom. Get a report ready, and send it in. Maybe it will be fixed.

Edited by Omaha, 05 December 2017 - 09:46 AM.

[Ghogiel]

It's just another way of spreading dmg/making the enemy work for it. Same catagory as torso twisting and dmg reduction transfer shielding.

Also some mechs have, and do still have, pretty fubar JJ animation which desyncs the hitboxes. Even non JJ mechs can desync via falling or shutting down.

As was admitted HSR aparently "cheats" to work out how things should take dmg while JJing happens. This is why there there is a high occurance of wierd hit regs issues because hitboxes are not always correct.

[Bud Crue]

Omaha, on 05 December 2017 - 09:37 AM, said:

I think the "trick" he is referring is the mech jump animation? Some mech exhibit a "hopping" like animation when tapping jj's. IE: The old school timberwolf.

Does that animation effect make the hit reg funky or something? I mean I flutter my JJs all the time, particularly if I am retreating (read: bravely running away) in the hopes that some of the shots intended for my rear torsos hit my legs instead or yes, just miss. But I didn’t know that this was some sort of exploit, and if it is, what’s the deal? If there is a bug or something then yes PGI ought to fix it. If not, well then I don’t understand the problem (if there is one).

Edit: Nevermind, I see the comment above.

Edited by Bud Crue, 05 December 2017 - 09:45 AM.

[Bigbacon]

once upon a time this was an issue. it would completely mess up the boxes. I thoughth they fixed that though.

[Beaching Betty]

I dont think its a problem.. (because I do this too on light mechs) he.. he.. he

[Humpday]

nah, its a tactic, In real live jumping up and down like that would cause the chassis to buck a bounce(yes yes i know not good to compare to "Real life")

Anyway the point is, its tactic to survive...it is what it is. Plus, most lights already have a hard time staying alive. They can have that one.

Side, note, did something happen to the ACH? I took it out last night and it was like a paper doll man. I don't' remember it being so fragile though I stopped playing it after i put 300+ matches into it.

EDIT: I also, like everyone else, by instinct I pop my JJ's, especially when in an oh crap, gotta go, situation...gotta do what you gotta do to survive. Probably most commonly in my Summoner.

Edited by Humpday, 05 December 2017 - 09:51 AM.

[LordNothing]

i see it more as a move of last ditch act of desperation only employed by mechs that are about to pop.

[Omaha]

There is something to be said about it though. I am with you on that. I can't lie I am bios toward jj's I love them. Wish they were more mobile, as they were before. Especially for heavier mechs. I get it that the game is supposed to feel clunky and slow like your in a giant stomping robot. There is a fine line though between giant and stompy, and clunky and clumsy.

If they were to fix it. I would think they could scale the animation frames, inline with the amount of jj's equipped. Right now you only need one, or max jj's and this little "hop" is always the same. Less jj's less hop. MOAR! jj's moar! hop!

Really miss the HGN glory days. In terms of jump capability.

Edited by Omaha, 05 December 2017 - 10:14 AM.

[VonBruinwald]

Garagano, on 05 December 2017 - 09:31 AM, said:

Some of the light mechs are already hard to hit, due to broken hit boxes. If someone, ... uses bunny hopping to prevent being hit, this is just lame and a bad player to me. I am not speaking about long JJ burns, what i mean here are very short JJ burns to trick the game engine, so shots are not applied to the mechs' hit boxes.

This sort of a trick is an exploit of the game engine, not cheating per say but a cheap tactic nevertheless.

I don't judge the tactic, I judge the player, doing this puts them on the same level as the meta-tryhards in my opinion. They resort to cheap tactics to make up for a lack of skill. I feel sorry for them, they'll never know the true joy of a STD60 Urbie.

[McGoat]

VonBruinwald, on 05 December 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

This sort of a trick is an exploit of the game engine, not cheating per say but a cheap tactic nevertheless.

I don't judge the tactic, I judge the player, doing this puts them on the same level as the meta-tryhards in my opinion. They resort to cheap tactics to make up for a lack of skill. I feel sorry for them, they'll never know the true joy of a STD60 Urbie.

lol - wat.

[Khobai]

IMO its a non-issue except on the assassin

the assassin is the only mech in the game with broken enough hitboxes where bunny hopping becomes a serious problem

assassin needs to have its hitboxes redrawn

whoever drew its hitboxes the first time completely failed at it.

Edited by Khobai, 05 December 2017 - 10:44 AM.

[JC Daxion]

Bud Crue, on 05 December 2017 - 09:44 AM, said:

Does that animation effect make the hit reg funky or something? I mean I flutter my JJs all the time, particularly if I am retreating (read: bravely running away) in the hopes that some of the shots intended for my rear torsos hit my legs instead or yes, just miss. But I didn’t know that this was some sort of exploit, and if it is, what’s the deal? If there is a bug or something then yes PGI ought to fix it. If not, well then I don’t understand the problem (if there is one).

there is an issue with some people, that cause the mech to stutter so it sorta blinks up and down while people are doing it. It cause you to miss a lot more frequently. IMO when used like this it is an exploit.

PGI could fix it, by making JJ's have a small burn time, verse instant off on. Even if it was like 1 second it would stop the exploit. Maybe even a small fraction could work.

[Mole]

I do this all the time in my JJ capable 'mechs and I am trying to retreat into cover. I always just viewed it as a way to make my individual components more difficult to hit by causing my chassis to jerk erratically, thus increasing my ability to spread damage. Only when I am under fire during a retreat though as actually trying to fight while doing this is just not viable.

Edited by Mole, 05 December 2017 - 11:09 AM.

[Phoolan Devi]

What's next? Is torso twisting going to be considered an exploit?

Nah......it's totally ok and fine! Ain't got a problem with that.

[Gristle Missile]

Bunny hopping is not an issue for me
I just figure out where they are landing then alpha them - if its a light mech, JJs actually make it easier to leg them since they aren't moving the legs.
There are downsides too - like the heat, weight, crit slots and limited fuel

If a mech runs JJs - it has to usually sacrifice firepower, armor, speed or ammo
I feel like that is a good enough trade off for being harder to hit

Edited by Gristle Missile, 05 December 2017 - 11:29 AM.

[Magnus Santini]

It is good to prevent stupid pebbles in terrain from blocking retreat. Also, it is a test of skill points in torso pitch. Some people can't aim up/down well with those weapons.

[HammerMaster]

This was originally labelled jump jet feathering. It's a clear meta exploit of hit registration. IF you are using direct fire. Someone saying it's fixed? Maybe alleviated but not fully fixed. The fact that we are still seeing it used/abused tells me it's not. Honestly when I see it you take a quick look at his paper doll ( hit R dummy) and that time lost is gained on focusing what's broken ( besides this exploitable mechanic).

[MischiefSC]

In JJ animations the legs are significantly off on the Assassin and most surprisingly the ST are almost completely gone - the ST is almost 1/2 arm when it's doing its JJ animation.

Tested repeatedly. I don't really record but if anyone wants to test that you'll see it's pretty obvious. Almost all the way to the CT 'nose' section ends up spreading damage to the arms. STs are almost non-existent when hopping.

Only reliable way to snuff an Assassin is shoot him in the junk. It was consistent when jumping.