466 replies to this topic

[General Solo]

Hoi @OP

My view are Lrm's are just tool in a pilots tools kit. Pilots pick a tool that suits the task at hand.

Different tools are guid at different things.

Some tools are generalist tools for example direct fire weapons are tools that can be used in a broad range of situations.
Aka if u can see it and it's in range you can shoot it.

Other tools are moar specialized. These specialised tools are exceedingly usefull in one or two situations but weaker than average in others.

Aka: LRMS exceedly usefull at providing indirect fire at targets but weaker at killing mechs quickly due to spread.
Aka: StreaKs exceedly usefull against lights but their weaker against heavier targets due to spread.
Aka:etc.............

So it looks like lrms forte is providing indirect fire, in other situations you are at a disadvantage compared to other weapon systems in alot of cases.

So lets say you like lrms OP, to fire indirectly you still need a target lock. You can depend on team mates locks, which is a unreliable method.
Or you can use narc which is moar reliable and effectively allows you to hold target locks without LOS so that ur lerms mech can do what it does best. INDIRECT FIRE. No point trying to out direct fire the direct fire boiz wid lerms.




Noice 3 kills 900 damage in a lerm Summoner you say!

Next game got 6 kills 800 damage in a PPC Summoner, and my PPC's work just fine under 180 metres.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 08 December 2017 - 01:32 PM.

[Wolfways]

Khobai, on 08 December 2017 - 01:22 PM, said:

being able to indirect fire is the whole thing that separates LRMs from other weapons though

the problem with buffing LRMs is that it would make indirect fire too strong though.

so if you wanna buff LRMs you also have to make indirect fire require more effort/skill to pull off.

LRMs could be buffed if indirect fire had substantially weaker tracking/spread without TAG/NARC. But with TAG/NARC, indirect fire should be just as good, if not better, than it always was.

If LRM's were F&F I'd be fine with that.

[Khobai]

I always imagined streak LRMs would be fire and forget

and thats what would seperate streak LRMs from regular LRMs

[Bombast]

Khobai, on 08 December 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

I always imagined streak LRMs would be fire and forget

and thats what would seperate streak LRMs from regular LRMs

Lore wise, it should be the other way around - The 'Streak' is a laser module on the mech that provides targeting data to the missiles while in flight. So the mech has to stay locked on to provide the bonus, unlike proper LRMs, which are supposed to be self-guided.

Of course, the reason LRMs are the way they are is because the game can't, nor shouldn't, follow the fluff mechanics exactly. But if you're going to have both, why not do them both 'right?'

[Lightfoot]

My feeling is LRMs should be less accurate the more you carry and better the fewer you carry because right now it seems only Assaults can see rewards from carrying LRMs. That means LRMs are over-nerfed.

Good snipers and good LRM back-up pin down the enemy team and make themselves a hard to hit target that draws most incoming fire. It's all about location.

[Khobai]

Quote

My feeling is LRMs should be less accurate the more you carry and better the fewer you carry because right now it seems only Assaults can see rewards from carrying LRMs. That means LRMs are over-nerfed.

that is how it works. an LRM5 is more accurate than an LRM20.

[lazorbeamz]

Boated lrm are pretty imba at times. They deal so much damage and are homing weapons which will get you even if you are out of sight. Literally melts mechs in 3 volleys sometimes.

[Satan n stuff]

Khobai, on 08 December 2017 - 09:35 PM, said:

that is how it works. an LRM5 is more accurate than an LRM20.

I should add that any IS LRM launcher is more accurate than it would normally be if mounted on a hardpoint that doesn't let you fire all missiles at once. The delay is generally not worth it, however. I'm not sure how this works for clans, because their LRMs don't fire all at once regardless.

[Kroete]

Jman5, on 07 December 2017 - 07:55 AM, said:

This is the key. LRMs do not play by your rules and frankly, I think it pisses you guys off a little bit. It's why I think these discussions always get so heated compared to virtually any other "underpowered" weapon discussion.

Here it comes:

Arkham Chase, on 08 December 2017 - 12:02 AM, said:

They are not good or op. They are however, annoying and fun spoiling.

Says nearly all about every lrm-topic in the forum.

Bombast, on 08 December 2017 - 12:54 PM, said:

Feel wise, no. Being hit with Machine Guns feels crappy too.

But generally you can fire back at mechs firing though, while you can't when LRMs are being fired at you.

You cant shot the uav, narcer or spotter?

Edited by Kroete, 09 December 2017 - 05:04 AM.

[Wolfways]

lazorbeamz, on 09 December 2017 - 12:32 AM, said:

Boated lrm are pretty imba at times. They deal so much damage and are homing weapons which will get you even if you are out of sight.

LRM's are not op. Other weapons fired at once all hitting the same point on the target are.

Quote

Literally melts mechs in 3 volleys sometimes.

Let's at least keep the discussion realistic

[Brain Cancer]

Lightfoot, on 08 December 2017 - 09:27 PM, said:

My feeling is LRMs should be less accurate the more you carry and better the fewer you carry because right now it seems only Assaults can see rewards from carrying LRMs. That means LRMs are over-nerfed.

Good snipers and good LRM back-up pin down the enemy team and make themselves a hard to hit target that draws most incoming fire. It's all about location.

If LRMs should be less accurate when boated, clearly lasers should have a damage nerf when boated- oh wait, they don't and LRMs do thanks to increased spread on larger launchers. That's ridiculous and makes lots of hardpoints > bigger launchers.

Note that generally, a PPC/ERLL type can do everything the lurmboat is in terms of suppressive fire, only he doesn't run out of ammo and deals pinpoint damage. The current sole advantage of the LRM is it can be fired in situations where otherwise, the robot in question cannot get LOS to target. And to do so, it maximizes spread and minimizes accuracy.

lazorbeamz, on 09 December 2017 - 12:32 AM, said:

Boated lrm are pretty imba at times. They deal so much damage and are homing weapons which will get you even if you are out of sight. Literally melts mechs in 3 volleys sometimes.

You're not out of sight if the LRMs are tracking you. Likewise, 3 volleys of LRMs in this day and age is unlikely to melt anything, unless someone else hits it first. I've been sandblasted to the 20% range by LRMs on Polar and came out of it without a single piece of equipment gone, internal all over but zero locations lost.

[Pariah Devalis]

LRM can be fun to use. Sure. But it would be a lie to say that they are anything other than inefficient when it comes to dispensing damage. Even with LOS, they naturally smear too much. In the ~40 seconds it took to complete the rainout on this Atlas, for example, one could have simply cored him out with direct firepower to the "face" of the mech and moved onto another target in nearly half the time.



For the record, I completed this game with just under 800 damage dealt, and the team lost horribly. I had managed to get about two full salvos worth off on a Black Jack, earlier, and died shortly after this footage ended. So I did a stupidly high amount of damage against a single target... but took forever to generate a kill from it.

Time better spent killing other mechs. Because one mech tied me up for so long, it not only reduced my ability to inflict efficient damage on an enemy, but also my ability to contribute to the team as a whole.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 11 December 2017 - 08:27 AM.

[thievingmagpi]

I haven't been killed by lrms for.... As long as I can remember.

I can only remember once where I was actually seriously damaged by lrms and that was a few nights ago as a brawler on frozen city domination.

And I play very aggressively

(Aka poorly)

[OmniFail]

Pariah Devalis, on 11 December 2017 - 08:19 AM, said:

LRM can be fun to use. Sure. But it would be a lie to say that they are anything other than inefficient when it comes to dispensing damage. Even with LOS, they naturally smear too much. In the ~40 seconds it took to complete the rainout on this Atlas, for example, one could have simply cored him out with direct firepower to the "face" of the mech and moved onto another target in nearly half the time.



For the record, I completed this game with just under 800 damage dealt, and the team lost horribly. I had managed to get about two full salvos worth off on a Black Jack, earlier, and died shortly after this footage ended. So I did a stupidly high amount of damage against a single target... but took forever to generate a kill from it.

Time better spent killing other mechs. Because one mech tied me up for so long, it not only reduced my ability to inflict efficient damage on an enemy, but also my ability to contribute to the team as a whole.

Partially Wrong......

LRM's are the most efficient weapon in the game when it comes to dealing damage and focusing fire with teammates. That being said LRM's are inefficient at delivering pin point damage. But so are SRM's, SSRM's, and LBX

Edited by OmniFail, 11 December 2017 - 11:15 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

OmniFail, on 11 December 2017 - 11:12 AM, said:

Partially Wrong......

LRM's are the most efficient weapon in the game when it comes to dealing damage and focusing fire with teammates. That being said LRM's are inefficient at delivering pin point damage.

While true, focused damage is the name of the game. If it consistently cannot direct focused damage, it isn't effectively or efficiently dealing damage.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 11 December 2017 - 11:14 AM.

[OmniFail]

Pariah Devalis, on 11 December 2017 - 11:14 AM, said:

While true, focused damage is the name of the game. If it consistently cannot direct focused damage, it isn't effectively or efficiently dealing damage.

Go make a thread about how bad SRM, SSRM, MRM, and LBX are bad. I'm there will be tons of community support for it.

Edited by OmniFail, 11 December 2017 - 11:18 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

OmniFail, on 11 December 2017 - 11:18 AM, said:

Go make a thread about how bad SRM, SSRM, MRM, and LBX are bad. I'm there will be tons of community support for it.

SSRMs are bad againstvanything ither than Lughts. If LRMs didn't have minimum range, they would be at least as good here.

The rest can all deliver focused damage at some range. LRMs cannot.

[Pariah Devalis]

OmniFail, on 11 December 2017 - 11:18 AM, said:

Go make a thread about how bad SRM, SSRM, MRM, and LBX are bad. I'm there will be tons of community support for it.

LBX ARE bad. With niche exceptions. SSRM are bad against anything over 45 tons. MRM are bad against anything faster than 65 kph, or at ranges beyond 300 meters. These are known.

SRM has spread, but it is both up front, and minimal with Artemis. Especially at the ranges brawls happen, usually largely clustering on a single primary part. They also make up for it in raw damage and damage per ton efficiency with zero counter to their use outside of not being in their range.

If a thread is created to say something wrong, it is a bad thread. LRM are not being proven good weapons, here. The harm it can do to new or uniformed players is not good, either.

Edit: phone fails galore

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 11 December 2017 - 11:26 AM.

[Horseman]

FupDup, on 03 December 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

They're great...when the stars align.
When the stars don't align you're gonna have a bad time.
It's the reason why lock-on missiles in MWO (including Lurms) have needed to be redesigned for years. They're way too much of a feast or famine weapon.

Basically. I would not agree about a need to redesign them.

oldradagast, on 03 December 2017 - 12:19 PM, said:

Worse, that assumes best case - I'm not one of those "noobs" who straps 4 LRM15's onto an Awesome and forgets to bring even a single laser as a backup weapon. I also get close enough to share some armor and use direct fire weapons... but many LRM players don't. Too many build silly LRM boats that don't work and hide near LRM maximum range, doing nothing but making pretty explosions on the terrain. Heck, only a few weeks ago I saw a King Crab with 4 LRM15's and nothing else... the bad builds just don't end with LRM's for some reason.

Long story short: best case scenario, you have some decent games with them, which is not much to recommend them.

4XLRM15 is noob bait - too hot, not enough space for adequate ammo. My AWS-8R runs 3xALRM15, TAG (in arm), BAP and 2xML, and the rule of thumb is to be on the front line, tagging my own targets whenever possible. If I don't screw up, 2-3 kills and 600-800 dmg is a norm - although in favorable conditions (read: Polar or Frozen).
EDIT: lost part of sentence here - it was supposed to be: "although in favorable conditions (read: Polar or Frozen) it has gone up to 1.2K and on a few occasions hit high as 1.4K"

No, I'm not one of those "all the lurms all the time" people - I have seven LRM builds among the hundred mechs in my collection.

Edited by Horseman, 12 December 2017 - 12:07 PM.

[MischiefSC]

OmniFail, on 11 December 2017 - 11:12 AM, said:

Partially Wrong......

LRM's are the most efficient weapon in the game when it comes to dealing damage and focusing fire with teammates. That being said LRM's are inefficient at delivering pin point damage. But so are SRM's, SSRM's, and LBX

Bad math is bad.

LRMs rarely get 30% damage per ton from their ammo and their functional DPS is absolutely horrible. Completely horrible. Hence the time it took him to burn down the Atlas. In, say, even a Splatbacker with 5 SRM6s I could do a comparable damage in 1/2 the time, because I'm getting almost all 60 damage on target (spread around but on target) every time. 60 tubes of LRMs are firing more slowly and putting 30-40 damage on the target... if even, with no AMS and no real cover.

LRMs are crap for damage, crap for killing mechs.

The only thing they are good at, at all, his shooting at targets to get some sort of damage while hiding. This lets you live longer to pad your stats at the expense of losing more matches because your teammates are fighting 11 v 12. It's why running LRMs may pad your damage but hurts your w/l. LRMs are a game losing weapon. Which is why everyone who's a top performer for win/loss doesn't take LRMs.