466 replies to this topic

[Eisenhorne]

Lightfoot, on 15 April 2018 - 11:44 PM, said:

Clan LRMs are terrible unless you are carrying 4xALRM20, but that is an Assault Mech, likely a Supernova or MKii. And as a back-up weapon, like 2xLRM20 or LRM15, they are just about worthless, not really worth the added heat load and risk of ammo explosions.

Clan heavies like the SNS and NTG can do 2 ALRM 15 + 2 ALRM 20, which is probably the best way to go for clan LRM mechs IMO. Direct fire is better, but if you gotta do LRM's that's how I'd do it.

[Brain Cancer]

Vellron2005, on 16 April 2018 - 03:20 AM, said:

If I could just direct your attention to this final score..

https://mwomercs.com...60#entry6070360

Not even me.. just a show of how bad LRMs are ;-)

He spends the entire game hiding behind his team and keeps his armor nearly virgin to the end (on an assault), fails to kill anyone until after the entire team has died trying (and then scavenges the kills off the ruined targets), and loses because he delivered his damage far too slowly and inaccurately to prevent them from killing the other 11 players he was with.

Oh, and he lost. And the build is actually better on a chassis 20 tons lighter since a Catapult does the exact same thing, but faster, with more heat efficiency, and less embarrassing when people point out you have one medium laser and a TAG on an 85-tonner that has 6E to work with.

Yes, it WAS bad.

[Zergling]

Yup, if he hadn't been running LRMs, he very likely would have won that battle.

Probably would have done less damage, but he would have won.

[Brain Cancer]

Variant1, on 16 April 2018 - 06:47 AM, said:

that because they are meant to soften up targets from distance. Learn to lrm my friend. Also ugghhhhhhhhhh necro thread...........

You know what softens up a target?

Either having enough damage delivered rapidly to make up for spread, or being able to deliver damage precisely to a location that actually can kill the target.

LRMs do neither anymore.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Variant1, on 16 April 2018 - 06:47 AM, said:

that because they are meant to soften up targets from distance. Learn to lrm my friend. Also ugghhhhhhhhhh necro thread...........

You don't need to soften a target when you drill out components with two or three alphas.

[Variant1]

Brain Cancer, on 16 April 2018 - 12:31 PM, said:

You know what softens up a target?

Either having enough damage delivered rapidly to make up for spread, or being able to deliver damage precisely to a location that actually can kill the target.

LRMs do neither anymore.

Lrms are good at softening targets, and they can shoot with imputy without return fire. Direct fire weapons have to expose themselves where they will be opened up by a guass/ppc to the face, lrms dont have to.

Alexander of Macedon, on 16 April 2018 - 02:03 PM, said:

You don't need to soften a target when you drill out components with two or three alphas.

Thats why the quirck tree needs to get removed. Ridiculous amount of heat gen nodes and cooldowns.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Variant1, on 16 April 2018 - 03:42 PM, said:

Lrms are good at softening targets, and they can shoot with imputy without return fire. Direct fire weapons have to expose themselves where they will be opened up by a guass/ppc to the face, lrms dont have to.

To be able to "shoot with imputy without return fire" they need a spotter.

I would wager that 2 direct fire 'mechs are better than 1 LRM 'mech + 1 spotter with w/e you care to have on it.

[Variant1]

Jay Leon Hart, on 16 April 2018 - 03:47 PM, said:

To be able to "shoot with imputy without return fire" they need a spotter.

I would wager that 2 direct fire 'mechs are better than 1 LRM 'mech + 1 spotter with w/e you care to have on it.

that depends on how well both duos perform, it can go either way

[Brain Cancer]

Variant1, on 16 April 2018 - 03:54 PM, said:

that depends on how well both duos perform, it can go either way

Two people focusing fire on one set of armor with direct-fire weaponry > one guy getting shot while the other one hides behind a hill. Or, in the case of LRMs, even if they're not hiding.

[Y E O N N E]

Variant1, on 16 April 2018 - 03:54 PM, said:

that depends on how well both duos perform, it can go either way

Not when both are competent it can't. Two directs peak the hill, blast the spotter, then return to cover before the LRMs get there. You lose the lock, the LRMs hit the ground, GGclose. Even if they hit, they are unfocused while your spotter will be dead on the next peak.

There is only one map where this exchange doesn't work so well in the favor of direct fire.

[sycocys]

Excluding the short life duration of UAVs "someone" has to be open to return fire to allow LRMs to even function.
(Well outside of dumbfiring into a wall)

This is usually why people complain about LRM boats not sharing their armor while everyone else on the team gets destroyed and the team loses the match.

Edited by sycocys, 16 April 2018 - 04:11 PM.

[Variant1]

Brain Cancer, on 16 April 2018 - 04:02 PM, said:

Two people focusing fire on one set of armor with direct-fire weaponry > one guy getting shot while the other one hides behind a hill. Or, in the case of LRMs, even if they're not hiding.

spotter should be flanking not goin in guns blazing, once spoted relocate. If lrm cant get a bead then lrmer should reposition.

Yeonne Greene, on 16 April 2018 - 04:05 PM, said:

Not when both are competent it can't. Two directs peak the hill, blast the spotter, then return to cover before the LRMs get there. You lose the lock, the LRMs hit the ground, GGclose. Even if they hit, they are unfocused while your spotter will be dead on the next peak.

There is only one map where this exchange doesn't work so well in the favor of direct fire.

If the spotter charges in recklessly, sure. If spotter and lrmer wait and the suprise the hill peakers they will destroy them, Also the lrms will be shaking one of the guys meaning an easy kill for the spoter, the lrmer should also be using direct fire weapons with lrms to maximize efficiency

[Y E O N N E]

Variant1, on 16 April 2018 - 04:16 PM, said:

If the spotter charges in recklessly, sure. If spotter and lrmer wait and the suprise the hill peakers they will destroy them, Also the lrms will be shaking one of the guys meaning an easy kill for the spoter, the lrmer should also be using direct fire weapons with lrms to maximize efficiency

No, they won't. The LRMs take too long to travel even at 500 meters and it's still two 'Mechs focusing damage on the spotter while the LRM and spotter splash damage across one of that pair.

There is no way the LRMs win this unless it's Polar and the spotter just uses a NARC.

[Variant1]

Yeonne Greene, on 16 April 2018 - 04:20 PM, said:

No, they won't. The LRMs take too long to travel even at 500 meters and it's still two 'Mechs focusing damage on the spotter while the LRM and spotter splash damage across one of that pair.

There is no way the LRMs win this unless it's Polar and the spotter just uses a NARC.

Lrms can win on any map, it just takes positioning and timing. Those direct firers will have their backs to an lrmer which is still dangerous. The spotter should try to lure them to an area where a window of oportunity will arise for some rain, like in an open city or one of the ridges on canyon.

[Eisenhorne]

Variant1, on 16 April 2018 - 04:42 PM, said:

Lrms can win on any map, it just takes positioning and timing. Those direct firers will have their backs to an lrmer which is still dangerous. The spotter should try to lure them to an area where a window of oportunity will arise for some rain, like in an open city or one of the ridges on canyon.

Really they cannot. Any good player will simply not go into the open if LRM's are everywhere. Try to LRM on maps like Grim Portico or River City, and you won't be as effective as a guy with direct fire weapons.

[Variant1]

Eisenhorne, on 16 April 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:

Really they cannot. Any good player will simply not go into the open if LRM's are everywhere. Try to LRM on maps like Grim Portico or River City, and you won't be as effective as a guy with direct fire weapons.

True players will seek cover from lrms, its the lrmer job to reposition stealthily and when that player pops up again lrm them from a different spot. It will be harder to do that on river due to cover but its possible

[Villainy]

How did we have ANOTHER 20+ page on LRMs.
AGAIN!?

I thought we had a pretty good understanding as a community: LRMs are for noobs, are relatively bad in upper-level play outside of 5+ man prebuilts, and are a right-of-passage for any Mechwarrior.

Why are we still discussing this? HOW are we still discussing this?

[Deathlike]

Variant1, on 16 April 2018 - 04:42 PM, said:

Lrms can win on any map, it just takes positioning and timing. Those direct firers will have their backs to an lrmer which is still dangerous. The spotter should try to lure them to an area where a window of oportunity will arise for some rain, like in an open city or one of the ridges on canyon.

Yes, they are so great, that comp play uses them regularly, like in the MWOWC finals!

...

[/sarcasm]

You know, if you keep defending them to the death like that, I'm sure you'll absolutely love obtaining the "most likely target to die" award.

[Lykaon]

Variant1, on 16 April 2018 - 04:42 PM, said:

Lrms can win on any map, it just takes positioning and timing. Those direct firers will have their backs to an lrmer which is still dangerous. The spotter should try to lure them to an area where a window of oportunity will arise for some rain, like in an open city or one of the ridges on canyon.

So if the LRM + spotter team is exceptionally clever and your targets are exceptionally stupid?

Sure LRMs can "win" on Mining Collective but your targets need to be imbiciles.

Edited by Lykaon, 18 April 2018 - 05:11 AM.

[Brain Cancer]

Lykaon, on 17 April 2018 - 12:00 AM, said:

So if the LRM + spotter team is exceptionally clever and your targets are exceptionally stupid?

Sure LRMs can "win" on Mining Collective but your targets need to imbiciles.

That's pretty much the point- LRMs at this point only do well if your opponent is honestly bad, because that's what it takes.

And you'll kill them faster with almost anything else at that point, simply because, well, bad player.