466 replies to this topic

[Brain Cancer]

LRMs are a bad weapon because they're not given any real advantages, only a huge array of counters and nerfs because newbies die more often to a weapon that compensates for typical bad newbie aim than anything else.

Meanwhile, your average missile boater is sweating bullets just to successfully hit most targets twice in a row in skilled play, and the weapon system has a forced cap that puts it not only below direct fire, but so far below as to be as bad for good players as it is good for bad ones.

[Brain Cancer]

Nine-Ball, on 03 December 2017 - 12:48 PM, said:

Yes, they're so bad they force everybody to bring hard-counters on the oft chance they'll see them. What?

Force people to bring hard-counters?

Not really. People don't all mount AMS or ECM.

They use the readily available counters the map provides called "rocks", or "buildings". That is, on all but the rarest occasions, there isn't really much worrying about LRMs at the higher end of skill.

I mean heck, I've lived in a LRM boat for months of play. No ECM, no AMS, no radar dep simply because I knew how to get out of the rain.

99.9% of my deaths were to direct fire weaponry, not LRMs. I had some matches where I could soak so much LRM fire, I was running around without a scrap of armor outside my head, yet fully functional because that's how bad the missile spread was from lurmtaters firing their Artemis-free launchers of chainfire and splatter.

[Khobai]

I dont mount AMS except when im farming missiles with kitfox

and the reason I bring ECM is because of all the potatos that cant shoot you unless you have a red box around you

you also get good matchscore for hanging near an assault with ecm and shooting enemies and shooting down lots of missiles. thats how I get like 700+ matchscore in kitfox.

if I do that, I imagine thats what other people are doing too... they arnt taking ams and ecm to protect from missiles. theyre taking them to farm your missiles for cbills lol.

Quote

They use the readily available counters the map provides called "rocks", or "buildings". That is, on all but the rarest occasions, there isn't really much worrying about LRMs at the higher end of skill.

yep. and on that note we really need destructible terrain badly. rocks and buildings should not provide better armor than actual mech armor does. rocks and buildings should get destroyed like the walls in incursion.

Edited by Khobai, 03 December 2017 - 01:20 PM.

[Xavori]

First, y'all are lurmboat amateurs...

Behold my awesomesauce Tempest 2xLRM20 amazeballs match:
https://steamuserima...D79B01F77814A5/
https://steamuserima...57CC5E7E9232F7/

In less than 5 minutes (because it was escort and he walked right into what was left of the enemy deathball, I did over 1k damage and racked up 3 KMDD's. So obviously LRM's are the worst weapon to ever weapon a weapon in MWO.

Second, lurmboating is a really bad idea most of the time in solo queue because you can't count on having teammates that understand the R key stands for ®eally important, you are leaving yourself wide open to get bumrushed, even with Clan LRM's which have a ramp-up minimum range damage, and you are using one of the lowest damage/ton weapons out there.

But with all that said, LRM's can fill the same role as artillery does in the real-world military. It's long range, indirect fire, that can shape a battlespace. It forces your enemies to move under cover. It seriously penalizes pop-tarting because any obstacle low enough to be pop-tarted is low enough for LRM's to hit behind. It add a psychological effect (the true source of LRM hate) when a mech is getting hit over and over again and feels helpless to prevent.

So as part of a team, LRM's are amazing. You might get lucky in solo quue (like I did) and have teammates that lock targets or narc/tag for you, and you'll be an MVP. In team queue, tho, you don't have to count on luck. You can know your teammates will assist, and at the same time, your team won't go overboard on LRM's so as to not suffer the same problems as a team that LRM's inflict on the mech boating them.

You can also work a single LRM5 or LRM10 into a lot of build to good effect. It's useful to have a weapon that discourages your targets from moving, or that can track lights (there are a bunch of caveats with that one) as they run by. But always make sure you have 'real' weapons loaded up first.

[Khobai]

LRMs are amazing...

...for cutefox lurmfarmer

[Troa Barton]

I love my LRM boats, but if you guys think they are bad we should buff them >

[jaxjace]

Some things never change.

[Wolfways]

I usually weigh in heavily on LRM threads, but after watching that clip I can only think "why bother?"

[Jay Leon Hart]

Asym, on 03 December 2017 - 12:22 PM, said:

The brawling community convinced PGI that Solaris is where the real money is....

Yet all the brawling weapons were nerfed. Something doesn't add up...

[Y E O N N E]

Jay Leon Hart, on 03 December 2017 - 02:41 PM, said:

Yet all the brawling weapons were nerfed. Something doesn't add up...

"To make solaris matches last longer"

...even though they won't actually last any longer.

[Bulletsponge0]

Mothermoy, on 03 December 2017 - 11:45 AM, said:

lurm haters gonna hate. If you can see the map like a chess board, and know where to be....lurms are devastating. They take away territory that the enemy can use. A good lurm player forces the enemy team to stay near cover, thereby eliminating vast stretches of territory they can use to pop tart, hillcrest and so on. A good lurm player will punish that out of position med-heavy-assault at times killing them. Lurms however are not made to 1 v 1 me bro kthanxbai......lol, they are a team based weapon. Lurms 4EVA

you should never be far from cover, period. LRMs or not....

[Khobai]

solaris would still be stupid even if brawling weapons werent nerfed.

1v1 just doesnt offer any kindve depth of play whatever. its just two mechs alphastriking eachother until one dies.

it literally does not get more boring than that.

8 player FFA is what solaris should have been.


assuming equal pilot skill a 1v1 is won most of the time in mechlab. if you have a better build youve already won before the match even starts.

but to win an 8 player FFA requires you to employ a lot of different skills. you cant just design a mech that poops out maximum alphas and doesnt care about heat. because overheating in an FFA will get you killed.


solaris matches shouldve been a 3 round matchset

first match would be 8 player FFA with the top 4 players going to the second match which would be 4 player FFA and the final match would be the top 2 players doing 1v1.

your rank would go up based on your placement in each matchset with the later matchsets being worth proportionally more

Edited by Khobai, 03 December 2017 - 03:25 PM.

[Jun Watarase]

Edit : http://webm.land/media/HEM5.webm

200+ LRMs to kill an assassin that kept standing still and was at about half hp, with TAG + artemis bonuses.

Edited by Jun Watarase, 03 December 2017 - 09:07 PM.

[chucklesMuch]

Thanks for the LOLES... (various replies)

[OmniFail]

Brain Cancer, on 03 December 2017 - 11:57 AM, said:

Seriously, if you want to say "LRMs are good", at least post good games with LRMs.



Orion IIC, LRM60 with Artemis and 2 ERMLs. It's called "be aggressive, actually get into effective range (read: 500m), and only use indirect when you can't find a clean shot otherwise".

No No No What you want to do is post games by pro lurm gods melting face on maps where they feel safe to scare them.

Don't go thinking I don't have games with bigger numbers because I do.

[Kiiyor]

AND IN THE BLUE CORNER

[OmniFail]

Kiiyor, on 03 December 2017 - 07:14 PM, said:

AND IN THE BLUE CORNER

I have been examining all my screen shots in my folder. The numbers do not look good for most of the direct fire crowd. I'm thinking most of you back shaving alpha strikers should maybe play lurms with your feet.

[Mothermoy]

all i know is when i play my lurm 60 timberwolf, i wreck. gonna enjoy it while i can.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Asym, on 03 December 2017 - 12:22 PM, said:

The brawling community convinced PGI that Solaris is where the real money is....

You have the most bizarre understanding/perception of this game's community and history sometimes, I swear.

The "brawling community" does not exist for the most part and never really has (except when brawling had a limited heyday in the very early going). There is no Solaris, after what.....4 years? More? Not even sure anymore. No such community convinced PGI of any such thing when it comes to LRM's or any IDF style weapon in this game.

The reason LRM's continue to ride the margins is, it extremely difficult for PGI to find a balance point where they don't become OP in the extreme in the hands of competent players, hence the myriad hard counters (in addition to just having some bloody situational awareness) and up and down balance tweaks to the system.

On the few occasions PGI tweaked speed, arc, lock-on times, etc they did it in such overly heavy handed and haphazard manner that they probably in all seriousness, could not see through all of the jumbled variables to see what was working and what wasn't, resulting in no less than three "Lurmaggeddons" in the community (two of which were frankly, overblown by the fact that there were simply tons of people trying out the "new LRM" factors).

Played second row (not all the way in the back), they can be fun to gig around in, and do some decent damage, but the inability to put the damage where you want/need to put it, will always be a highly limiting factor that overrides any inherent value to it's indirect fire-like use. They will always be a second class weapon, and frankly, given the volume of things the game has to balance, they will likely never be more than that.

OP - if yer having a good time running LRM mechs, good for you man. But I wouldn't confuse that with them being some awesome weapon system in the game. I know everyone wants to be the hero of their own story sort of thing in these games, but the proof is in the #'s. And you don't have them, nor do you demonstrate them in the video. Just keep plugging and having fun, but save the proselytizing for a better weapon/build once you've demonstrably mastered it.

Edited by Lukoi Banacek, 03 December 2017 - 08:45 PM.

[OmniFail]

Lukoi Banacek, on 03 December 2017 - 08:44 PM, said:

The reason LRM's continue to ride the margins is, it extremely difficult for PGI to find a balance point where they don't become OP in the extreme in the hands of competent players, hence the myriad hard counters (in addition to just having some bloody situational awareness) and up and down balance tweaks to the system.

While I don't agree with everything you said in your post this here is in my opinion is a hard fact that I think we can agree on.

It seems to me in my experience that while LRM's are incredibly inefficient at targeting specific components they are but they are incredibly efficient at delivering damage more often than direct fire weapons. Overall I think that the only real balance problems with LRMs right now are that LRM5's are now defunct and LRM use has been forced into higher weight chassis by the proliferation of AMS.

Sorry about my grammar and spelling. I'm a victim of the United States educational system.