466 replies to this topic

[Lukoi Banacek]

OmniFail, on 03 December 2017 - 08:58 PM, said:

It seems to me in my experience that while LRM's are incredibly inefficient at targeting specific components they are but they are incredibly efficient at delivering damage more often than direct fire weapons.

One of the most damning indictments of LRM play in general, is that efficiency being used at ranges that take the player out of sharing armor positions with the team, or at such ranges that the rounds aren't actually landing due to the time it takes to reach people. But like anything else, if you're not using a weapon well (whether it's landing shots with PPC's or positioning smartly with a LRM boat), you're hampering your team. It's just that with LRM based mechs, bad play with them can really stick out even more noticeably, resulting in LRM'ers becoming even more of a scapegoat.

I mean, if the guys who die in the first 90s of nearly every match, actually caught as much grief as LRM'ers did -- maybe matches would be closer because players would stop impaling themselves onto opponent teams almost immediately in their zippy efforts to scout etc. (just as an example).

[Jun Watarase]

http://webm.land/media/HEM5.webm

This is the video i was referring to earlier. At 28 seconds, the ASN is down to 34% hp and decides to stand still for me to shoot him with artemis+tag and it still takes 100+ LRMs to kill him.

[OmniFail]

Lukoi Banacek, on 03 December 2017 - 09:03 PM, said:

One of the most damning indictments of LRM play in general, is that efficiency being used at ranges that take the player out of sharing armor positions with the team, or at such ranges that the rounds aren't actually landing due to the time it takes to reach people. But like anything else, if you're not using a weapon well (whether it's landing shots with PPC's or positioning smartly with a LRM boat), you're hampering your team. It's just that with LRM based mechs, bad play with them can really stick out even more noticeably, resulting in LRM'ers becoming even more of a scapegoat.

I mean, if the guys who die in the first 90s of nearly every match, actually caught as much grief as LRM'ers did -- maybe matches would be closer because players would stop impaling themselves onto opponent teams almost immediately in their zippy efforts to scout etc. (just as an example).

Safety in numbers is real. Sharing armor is a myth. And yes I wish those kamikaze Rambo clowns would stop running to their deaths.

[Y E O N N E]

Safety in numbers works precisely because of armor sharing. That, and focus fire.

Hell, you and I were just in a match where I got all the LRM attention from that Night Gyr. I took the hits so everybody else had a chance to shoot back.

[OmniFail]

Jun Watarase, on 03 December 2017 - 09:10 PM, said:

http://webm.land/media/HEM5.webm

This is the video i was referring to earlier. At 28 seconds, the ASN is down to 34% hp and decides to stand still for me to shoot him with artemis+tag and it still takes 100+ LRMs to kill him.

Wow bro you build is bad. You need close range weapons. While the bonus from tag is good you are better off with the extra laser. If your using streaks take the tag.

And another thing guys having BAP is nice to keep you from being shut down by ECM mechs and you have the space/weight to take it you should. But if a ECM mech is close enough to shut down your locks maybe you should be using your close range weapons on it.

Yeonne Greene, on 03 December 2017 - 09:47 PM, said:

Safety in numbers works precisely because of armor sharing. That, and focus fire.

Hell, you and I were just in a match where I got all the LRM attention from that Night Gyr. I took the hits so everybody else had a chance to shoot back.

Yeah Yeah on Alpine. I end up in matches with you pretty often. Your one of the more experienced and dependable players, But I have to respectfully disagree on the armor sharing. From my experience its not really armor sharing. If you think about what the enemy, or your team for that matter is really doing (or should be doing), they're taking the biggest threat and focusing it down. This is not armor sharing. Also many players have the FPS survival mentality that it is better to cover when you are being shot at and find someone that is not shooting at you and shoot them. So your kind right its the focused fire. When a good team presses with a murder ball there is always a few of the enemy that shift position (run) to escape.

Edited by OmniFail, 03 December 2017 - 10:00 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

OmniFail, on 03 December 2017 - 09:51 PM, said:

Yeah Yeah on Alpine. I end up in matches with you pretty often. Your one of the more experienced and dependable players,

Yay!

I do try[hard].

[Khobai]

assassin hitboxes are really screwed up

they need to fix that !#@$

redo the hitboxes like they once had to do with the spider

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Kiiyor, on 03 December 2017 - 07:14 PM, said:

AND IN THE BLUE CORNER

Was going to post it myself if I didn't see it. I love how this guy gets more damage in T1 on mining collective of all places while aiming with his foot than OP did in his matches and better than anyone else posting screenshots of their "good matches" in LRMs.

Like dang, must suck to be beat by a guy using only his foot on a map that is heavily brawler based while you're on the perfect map for LRMs.

[Brain Cancer]

Lukoi Banacek, on 03 December 2017 - 09:03 PM, said:

One of the most damning indictments of LRM play in general, is that efficiency being used at ranges that take the player out of sharing armor positions with the team, or at such ranges that the rounds aren't actually landing due to the time it takes to reach people. But like anything else, if you're not using a weapon well (whether it's landing shots with PPC's or positioning smartly with a LRM boat), you're hampering your team. It's just that with LRM based mechs, bad play with them can really stick out even more noticeably, resulting in LRM'ers becoming even more of a scapegoat.

The OP video almost had me grinding my teeth at how much "don't do this" was going on.

It is incredibly easy to be bad with LRMs and still look like you're doing something. It is also incredibly easy to end up on a bad map and hosed, meaning you're even more unreliable on delivering unless you're pulling miracles out of nowhere to get your payload on-target. Mining, Crimson, and River City all can turn into disaster areas if your team has lurmboats that are suddenly stuck with tons of missiles and an enemy team under near perfect cover.

Quote

I mean, if the guys who die in the first 90s of nearly every match, actually caught as much grief as LRM'ers did -- maybe matches would be closer because players would stop impaling themselves onto opponent teams almost immediately in their zippy efforts to scout etc. (just as an example).

One of my favorite openings to a match is when some scout gets cocky and starts trying to duel in the open.

This is basically saying "missile me". My personal (ridiculous odds shot) best was a 1200m ATM kill because even at 1-damage range, 36 missiles on a flat arc to the back of a Locust can be very, very unhealthy. Seriously, people. We're looking for targets like mad early on, you don't want to be the guy the ones with the guided missile launchers get lock on without any distractions while an enemy light is gnawing on your ankles. We thank you for your early death in our favor.

Dakota1000, on 03 December 2017 - 10:46 PM, said:

Was going to post it myself if I didn't see it. I love how this guy gets more damage in T1 on mining collective of all places while aiming with his foot than OP did in his matches and better than anyone else posting screenshots of their "good matches" in LRMs.

Um...yeah. That guy with the 6 kill, 1200+ damage game on Crimson "they're all under the docks again" Strait might beg to differ.

I mean, I don't tend to keep many screenshots of Mining because most matches there are like pulling teeth for a missile boat, but...



It's doable. It's just really, really not fun thanks to the obscene amount of cover.

[Wolfways]

Dakota1000, on 03 December 2017 - 10:46 PM, said:

Was going to post it myself if I didn't see it. I love how this guy gets more damage in T1 on mining collective of all places while aiming with his foot than OP did in his matches and better than anyone else posting screenshots of their "good matches" in LRMs.

Like dang, must suck to be beat by a guy using only his foot on a map that is heavily brawler based while you're on the perfect map for LRMs.

That can't be T1. I assumed it was T5...maybe T4.
I'm T2 and I know that nobody stays up there because it's just asking to get rained on!
If that is T1 then it's either a setup or those players haven't seen LRM's for so long that they've forgotten they exist.

[Brain Cancer]

Wolfways, on 04 December 2017 - 12:14 AM, said:

That can't be T1. I assumed it was T5...maybe T4.
I'm T2 and I know that nobody stays up there because it's just asking to get rained on!
If that is T1 then it's either a setup or those players haven't seen LRM's for so long that they've forgotten they exist.

Juju is most assuredly T1, and that's not a smurf account. Of course, he's also dead the second anyone actually had a clean LOS on him, but it's not like you evade very well while trying to foot-shoot your opponents.

[Vellron2005]

JRcam4643, on 03 December 2017 - 11:05 AM, said:

LRMs have always been pretty good for me and I'm convinced they could be for anybody. A lot of people like to hate on them and claim they are no good but really it's more cause they are afraid of LRMs. I'm satisfied this video proves they are good.

Of course LRMs are awesome.. if you know how to use them.. If not, they suck.. just like any other weapon in the game..

I still get a kick out of people whining about LRMs, especially when I do the most kills, KMDDs, and damage in the whole drop (friendly and enemy team included)..

Only yesterday I was on Polar in my "Bonesy" 4 x LRM15 + 3 ERSL Awesome, and I lock the first target of the match, some guy trying to flank on our right side.. I LRM him to death, getting a solo kill.. and somebody on my team goes "OH MY GOD"..

Next match, same mech on Frozen, my Fiancee and me, both LRM boats, and somebody on our team starts whining about LRM boats.. We lost the match, I think it was 5:12.. I look at the score board.. I did 1014 damage, 3 kills, two of those solo, she did 600+, everybody else on the team less than 400.. so I'm like yeah, whine away looser

Point is..

You gotta know how to use em'..

Edited by Vellron2005, 04 December 2017 - 12:55 AM.

[Kin3ticX]

JRcam4643, on 03 December 2017 - 11:05 AM, said:

LRMs have always been pretty good for me and I'm convinced they could be for anybody. A lot of people like to hate on them and claim they are no good but really it's more cause they are afraid of LRMs. I'm satisfied this video proves they are good.

Your one video doesnt really prove or disprove anything and your argument is highly flawed.

Homing missiles in this game are meant to provide decent power with low skill. I mean, its a homing missile. You just hold your pipper losely on a target and it aims itself. Someone already made a video doing as much or more damage than you controlling their mouse with their foot. This is because LRMs are a FOOS strategy. Google it.

For some players, LRMs are the way to go, for others, they discard them almost entirely unless they are looking for lulz or something. Don't let the whole lore thing cloud it up. You don't have to include LRMs for the sake of LRMs themselves just like you probably dont use Targeting computer 8s and Command Consoles just because they are there.

LRMs can seldem or occasionally beat superior pilots. Thats where a lot of the salt comes from, everyone ******* about them, even me. Its annoying to get the incoming missile thing and its really annoying to get caught by them. That just means they are tuned in the right place more or less. Like others have said, they are feast or famine in nature, with so many factors they are polarized between no power and decent power.

[Yosharian]

400 damage hahahahah

Holy ****

if i do 400 damage in my cougar I feel like I've played poorly

Edited by Yosharian, 04 December 2017 - 01:42 AM.

[The Basilisk]

LRM lovers are like UFO belivers.
No statistic or fact or what ever will make them listen to reason.

Got some of them in my Unit too.
They share the wildes storys and show those one in a century game caps around to prove it.
And when you've got curious and join their team you see them do below 300dmg in 9 out of 10 matches and they still tell you that those 9 matches where the exception and normaly when I'm not looking they are doing awsome and it is actually me that drags them down.

Edited by The Basilisk, 04 December 2017 - 01:50 AM.

[Davegt27]

a few points

1) you know your doing LRMs right when the other team sends a guy out to kill you

2) when people come on the forums and cry then you know your being effective (that goes for other weapons also)

I miss the old days of MWO where people cried about assaults
when was the last time you heard anyone cry so n so is OP

Edited by Davegt27, 04 December 2017 - 02:26 AM.

[Lightfoot]

@ original post,

Of course LRM70 works. You would have to be pretty bad to not score good damage and kills with LRM 70. The point is LRM40 is a boat in BattleTech, but in MWO it's garbage. Somehow fix it so LRM40 is a lot better, but as you add more launchers the accuracy drops off so LRM70 is only slightly better than LRM40.

[Rick T Dangerous]

Simple Question to OP: Does Betty tell you something like "Incoming Lasers" or "Incoming AC fire", so you know you should shoot only one more time before taking cover or making two or three steps to the side?

There is a certain difference between a weapon system that requires a lock, and a weapon system that allows you to use the target info.

[Jun Watarase]

Quote

Wow bro you build is bad. You need close range weapons.

Its alpine.

[Wolfways]

Kin3ticX, on 04 December 2017 - 01:02 AM, said:

This is because LRMs are a FOOS strategy. Google it.

Minimal effort for high gain? lol Maybe in T4-5.

It depends on how good the opposing players are, and if they are good you have to work a hell of a lot harder than when using direct-fire weapons.