466 replies to this topic

[Wil McCullough]

Bombast, on 06 December 2017 - 07:12 PM, said:

It's his thread, man.

Oh f. Brain fart my bad

[Brain Cancer]

Bombast, on 06 December 2017 - 06:57 PM, said:

He has to press R, he's a LRM pilot. It's literally the only thing we can be sure he can do.

I got teamkilled the other day by an Ebon Jaguar with LRM 80.

Because he was dumbfiring them the entire time. First he ends up chainfiring them into my back because apparently a red square was between me and him.

Then, a Commando goes for my now open back. While I'm fending it off:

>Brain Cancer has been killed by Lurmtater

I spectate him. He's busily chainfiring his launchers nonstop and without a lock, missing completely. He hasn't hit R. Not at all. Apparently, the red hit indicators as he dumped missiles on me excited him too much to properly operate his buttons, other than the chainfire group he's holding the trigger on.

The Commando realizes he's the easiest target in history and mauls him to death. We win anyway.

[Relishcakes]

When used correctly, lrms are good, however normally they are not....you also must skill for them or they are completely wasted.

The thing is that they are good for stripping armor, not much else. Thats why if you see someone boating missiles, they are boating something WITH those missiles. For instance: I have a cougar, that boats 2 srm6's, an ATM6, and an LRM20. The LRM 20 is only to engage targets i cannot feasibly get to in order to help with the rest of my weapons. my mainstays are the srm 6's with some ATM6 for flavor. boating JUST LRMS is a waste of tonnage.

[MischiefSC]

Relishcakes, on 07 December 2017 - 12:43 AM, said:

When used correctly, lrms are good, however normally they are not....you also must skill for them or they are completely wasted.

The thing is that they are good for stripping armor, not much else. Thats why if you see someone boating missiles, they are boating something WITH those missiles. For instance: I have a cougar, that boats 2 srm6's, an ATM6, and an LRM20. The LRM 20 is only to engage targets i cannot feasibly get to in order to help with the rest of my weapons. my mainstays are the srm 6's with some ATM6 for flavor. boating JUST LRMS is a waste of tonnage.

They're bad at everything.

The almost 80 pt alpha on my MAD IIC laservomit strips armor - all of it, plus structure, from a single location on almost any mech. It does it in less than 1.5 seconds - less time than it takes your first salvo to even get to the target.

Your mixed loadout is terrible. Almost impossible to get one target into range for all of it and get proper use out of any of your weapons.

My RACs + AC2s on my Anni strip almost 38 pts every second for about 5 seconds, or about 190 damage in the time you're doing at best half of that, less accounting for travel time. Again, it's also far more precise.

Pretty much any direct fire build I can make will do the job better.

There is nothing, nothing LRMs do that another weapon doesn't do far, far better - save let you hide and shoot at people who your teammates are fighting - which gives a huge advantage to the other team. Anything other than hiding LRMs are bad at compared to other weapons.

You can do well with LRMs in the same way you can do well with stock builds and single heatsinks. Yes, you can get lucky sometimes and honestly you're just being carried by your team - but when you get lucky and the other team is terrible you can do okay.

[Satan n stuff]

Bombast, on 06 December 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

If you regularly fire MRMs from the 'second line,' you are going to do a lot of team damage.

Unless you're poptarting, anyway. Fun fact - Jump jet shake has almost no effect on MRMs, since they're going all over the place anyway. On a mech with good cooldown quirks, you can fire going up and down.

In my experience most of the team damage I get with MRMs is because of idiot teammates obliviously strolling into the incredibly obvious streams of missiles.
Had a match yesterday morning where exactly that happened, I was in a Mauler MRM boat pushing tunnel on Crimson and a friendly Executioner moved in from the middle entrance and at the exact time the enemy started to move up he decided to try to dodge out of the line of fire, straight in front of me and into a stream of missiles, twice.
At the time I was already fighting a MAD-IIC and several other mechs were within line of sight so being in front of me wasn't actually safer. What he ended up doing was saving the mech I was shooting at and taking about 50 damage to the left arm and rear LT. If he'd simply stayed at the middle entrance we could have crushed them as they came in, but bad tactics and extremely poor piloting resulted in the exact opposite happening.

[Wolfways]

Khobai, on 06 December 2017 - 03:37 PM, said:

right thats why 9 out of 10 mechs use laser vomit.

I've noticed an increase in laser boats recently, although I've also noticed the same names popping up a lot in QP.
How many players does MWO have left?

[Jay Leon Hart]

Wolfways, on 07 December 2017 - 02:57 AM, said:

How many players does MWO have left?

45,000+ active accounts, even if every player has 2 accounts that's over 20,000 active players.

Not great, but not terrible.

Source

Quote

Current active players: 45362
Current retired players: 160041
Database last edited: 2017-12-04

[Dogstar]

Wolfways, on 07 December 2017 - 02:57 AM, said:

How many players does MWO have left?

Very few...

[Wolfways]

I've been saying this for ages...

LRM's are good against those who don't know how to use cover, and bad against those who do know how to use cover. I may not be a good aim (20fps doesn't help ) but I know how to move around on every map without taking much, if any damage from LRM's.

That is the LRM's problem, not with the weapon itself but the maps. They are small arenas covered in...cover, instead of battlefields.
The slow missile travel time means that the target needs to be in the open for a longer time than it takes to hit them with direct-fire weapons. Good/long time players heave learned to stay near cover and not run over open areas unless they are sure the enemy LRM boats are otherwise engaged. This is why it's easier to hit slow assaults with LRM's, because they don't have the speed to quickly get back into cover.
Also, the incoming missiles warning gives players an early chance to get into cover before even a single salvo hits them.
This is also why people complain about Polar Highlands. There is a lack of hard cover (i.e. anything high enough to block incoming missiles) and LRM's are more effective at doing their job, but they're still useless at long range unless you have a spotter, or both shooter and target are ignoring cover...which never happens

Slow missiles work on battlefields, not arenas.



Edit: Notice how even though teammates are fighting the enemy the LRM mech is still using direct-fire and getting his own locks.

Edited by Wolfways, 07 December 2017 - 03:41 AM.

[sycocys]

Relishcakes, on 07 December 2017 - 12:43 AM, said:

When used correctly, lrms are good, however normally they are not....you also must skill for them or they are completely wasted.

The thing is that they are good for stripping armor, not much else. Thats why if you see someone boating missiles, they are boating something WITH those missiles. For instance: I have a cougar, that boats 2 srm6's, an ATM6, and an LRM20. The LRM 20 is only to engage targets i cannot feasibly get to in order to help with the rest of my weapons. my mainstays are the srm 6's with some ATM6 for flavor. boating JUST LRMS is a waste of tonnage.

LRMs at all are a waste of tonnage and slots.

You could have equipped a larger engine, more ammo/artemis for your srms, larger lasers (or cannons), more DHS, a bap for sensor range, targeting computer, heck even a command console provides a better benefit per ton than any LRM pack.

The problem is they don't strip armor, they peck away at it - at it all - where every other system other than flamers and out of range MG's your shots hit the location you want to hit and actually strip armor.

- LRMs aren't good, but they can be FUN if you draw low tier or drunk opponents.

[JRcam4643]

Brain Cancer, on 06 December 2017 - 10:46 PM, said:

I got teamkilled the other day by an Ebon Jaguar with LRM 80.

Because he was dumbfiring them the entire time. First he ends up chainfiring them into my back because apparently a red square was between me and him.

Then, a Commando goes for my now open back. While I'm fending it off:

>Brain Cancer has been killed by Lurmtater

I spectate him. He's busily chainfiring his launchers nonstop and without a lock, missing completely. He hasn't hit R. Not at all. Apparently, the red hit indicators as he dumped missiles on me excited him too much to properly operate his buttons, other than the chainfire group he's holding the trigger on.

The Commando realizes he's the easiest target in history and mauls him to death. We win anyway.

You can get LRM 80 into a Ebon? I must try this.

[JRcam4643]

Bombast, on 06 December 2017 - 06:57 PM, said:

He has to press R, he's a LRM pilot. It's literally the only thing we can be sure he can do.

Troa Barton, on 06 December 2017 - 07:04 PM, said:

lol

Relishcakes, on 07 December 2017 - 12:43 AM, said:

When used correctly, lrms are good, however normally they are not....you also must skill for them or they are completely wasted.

The thing is that they are good for stripping armor, not much else. Thats why if you see someone boating missiles, they are boating something WITH those missiles. For instance: I have a cougar, that boats 2 srm6's, an ATM6, and an LRM20. The LRM 20 is only to engage targets i cannot feasibly get to in order to help with the rest of my weapons. my mainstays are the srm 6's with some ATM6 for flavor. boating JUST LRMS is a waste of tonnage.

Wolfways, on 07 December 2017 - 03:31 AM, said:

I've been saying this for ages...

LRM's are good against those who don't know how to use cover, and bad against those who do know how to use cover. I may not be a good aim (20fps doesn't help ) but I know how to move around on every map without taking much, if any damage from LRM's.

That is the LRM's problem, not with the weapon itself but the maps. They are small arenas covered in...cover, instead of battlefields.
The slow missile travel time means that the target needs to be in the open for a longer time than it takes to hit them with direct-fire weapons. Good/long time players heave learned to stay near cover and not run over open areas unless they are sure the enemy LRM boats are otherwise engaged. This is why it's easier to hit slow assaults with LRM's, because they don't have the speed to quickly get back into cover.
Also, the incoming missiles warning gives players an early chance to get into cover before even a single salvo hits them.
This is also why people complain about Polar Highlands. There is a lack of hard cover (i.e. anything high enough to block incoming missiles) and LRM's are more effective at doing their job, but they're still useless at long range unless you have a spotter, or both shooter and target are ignoring cover...which never happens

Slow missiles work on battlefields, not arenas.



Edit: Notice how even though teammates are fighting the enemy the LRM mech is still using direct-fire and getting his own locks.

sycocys, on 07 December 2017 - 03:34 AM, said:

LRMs at all are a waste of tonnage and slots.

You could have equipped a larger engine, more ammo/artemis for your srms, larger lasers (or cannons), more DHS, a bap for sensor range, targeting computer, heck even a command console provides a better benefit per ton than any LRM pack.

The problem is they don't strip armor, they peck away at it - at it all - where every other system other than flamers and out of range MG's your shots hit the location you want to hit and actually strip armor.

- LRMs aren't good, but they can be FUN if you draw low tier or drunk opponents.

I posted it earlier somewhere in here but maybe nobody saw. We should really be demanding nonstop for a true after battle report that gives damage by weapon type, range and parts the damage is being done to and we need to be able see it from the garage not just the 20 seconds we have now. That's might be your best hope for turning people away from LRMs If what you say is true it should show in the numbers. PGI is making more improvements to this game then ever seen since I've been playing so the atmosphere is ripe for such an addition if enough people demand it. I already made a post for it here https://mwomercs.com...85#entry5966285

Edited by JRcam4643, 07 December 2017 - 06:24 AM.

[Bombast]

JRcam4643, on 07 December 2017 - 06:23 AM, said:

I posted it earlier somewhere in here but maybe nobody saw. We should really be demanding nonstop for a true after battle report that gives damage by weapon type, range and parts the damage is being done to and we need to be able see it from the garage not just the 20 seconds we have now. That's might be your best hope for turning people away from LRMs If what you say is true it should show in the numbers. PGI is making more improvements to this game then ever seen since I've been playing so the atmosphere is ripe for such an addition if enough people demand it. I already made a post for it here https://mwomercs.com...85#entry5966285

People have been asking for post match reports pretty much since the game was released. It's one of those features everyone's basically given up on.

EDIT: I doubt this would help though. There's already several online pages with nifty numbers that should be dissuading you from the course you're on, and yet, here we are.

Edited by Bombast, 07 December 2017 - 06:42 AM.

[JRcam4643]

Bombast, on 07 December 2017 - 06:29 AM, said:

People have been asking for post match reports pretty much since the game was released. It's one of those features everyone's basically given up on.

We're not demanding it enough. I've listened to some of the interviews with the devs, there was one just a couple days ago, they make it sound like new maps was the last thing they wanted to do but they're doing it even a dense urban map. And you know why it's happening right? Cause every since I've been playing people have been raging about maps. But the after battle report is by far the most helpful thing they could add and if there was half as much demand for it recently we probably would get it.

[Wolfways]

JRcam4643, on 07 December 2017 - 06:23 AM, said:

I posted it earlier somewhere in here but maybe nobody saw. We should really be demanding nonstop for a true after battle report that gives damage by weapon type, range and parts the damage is being done to and we need to be able see it from the garage not just the 20 seconds we have now. That's might be your best hope for turning people away from LRMs If what you say is true it should show in the numbers. PGI is making more improvements to this game then ever seen since I've been playing so the atmosphere is ripe for such an addition if enough people demand it. I already made a post for it here https://mwomercs.com...85#entry5966285

I don't want to turn people away from any weapon. Most of my mechs have a launcher on them (see sig).
I want pgi to make every weapon at least somewhat equally viable in the role they were designed for i.e LRM's long range for removing armour before closing in to closer range fighting.

With pgi's small arenas that means LRM's need to be F&F and have a very high arc (but don't take out the targets head) and remove the incoming missiles warning. At least then LRM's could be used at long range and targets could still hide behind very tall cover or under "roofs".
It also means less boating as you wouldn't have to cram every slot available with ammo to last a whole match as you would lose less ammo due to losing locks the second you fire. Once the salvo is in the air it tracks the target itself.

[sycocys]

You don't need a battle report to be able to see that LRMs spread their damage across every part of a mech.

Or that any player with relatively decent aim or ability to range in a brawl can put their damage pretty consistently on the location they choose with all the direct fire weaponry.

Presumably you aren't dumb-firing all of your missiles, so you should be able to watch how all the other weapons systems work in comparison to lrms right as you are playing - even if you are in T4/5 it should be pretty apparent that focused damage outperforms randomly spread damage.

[Asym]

Jay Leon Hart, on 07 December 2017 - 03:02 AM, said:

45,000+ active accounts, even if every player has 2 accounts that's over 20,000 active players.

Not great, but not terrible.

Source

We'll never know what the actual server traces are: PGI would never tell us.... Alternative acounts makes this even worse.

Your numbers may be what you found but, after playing a dozen matches in a row, with breaks inbetween them, I've ended up with the same 5 or 6 players each and every match in QP..... In Scouting, if you actually find a match, even worse...... I don't play FP at all anymore becuase of ghost drops and stomps.

So, what does this non-technical, observation data mean? Let's compare this to WoW, another game I tinker in: I've never had the same 5 or 6 players in a row, ever..... One, maybe two, but that is it.......and, I suspect, that was because of ship class and tier, not because of player density...

On LRM's, PGI has destroyed an entire weapons class and everybody is estatic ! Woo-Hoo, we've finally made tracking missiles obsolete................then, small pulse lasers were nerf'd; then medium lasers were nerf'ds; then 2xGauss/PC was nerf'd; then long range precision calculations were nerf'd; and, PGI isn't done yet. Solaris can't handle the existing TTK (whatever the game developers have calcualted as a viable TTK) because the matches would be too short, especially at "GuD' player levels and with meta builds.....

The moral is: we all need to stop trying to eliminate any weapons from MWO, seriously...... Or, you'll end up running out of ammunition before you'll be able to kill another mech sitting 100 meters in front of you. Just an opinion and an intuition.=

Edited by Asym, 07 December 2017 - 07:10 AM.

[Alexandra Hekmatyar]

Problem I got with lurms personally is it spreads out the damage too much.
Problem I have with lurm users is that most of them tend to ignore movement commands and stay TOO far in the back while they just need to make sure to have a 185 meter distance between them and the enemy.

Lurms do tend to shine against on the incompetence of the receivers by either them being being to cowardly to push or the lack of AMS in the group.

When I push and sometimes it's a very open area I rather walk in a straight line, deny the lurmers as much damage as possible by people using AMS, make them panic while still maintaining as much firepower as possible right in their face and be done with it.
Rather then jump to cover, trade a bit, jump out of cover and do the same till I get close enough.

[JRcam4643]

Wolfways, on 07 December 2017 - 02:57 AM, said:

I've noticed an increase in laser boats recently, although I've also noticed the same names popping up a lot in QP.
How many players does MWO have left?

Jay Leon Hart, on 07 December 2017 - 03:02 AM, said:

45,000+ active accounts, even if every player has 2 accounts that's over 20,000 active players.

Not great, but not terrible.

Source

Dogstar, on 07 December 2017 - 03:04 AM, said:

Very few...

45,000 doesn't sound that great, I jumped on one of my other games and it says there are 7,000 in game right now on the American Server and it's early to late morning here on a week day. I'm guessing that Mech doesn't come close to that or wouldn't see the same people over again all the time.

[JRcam4643]

Asym, on 07 December 2017 - 07:10 AM, said:

We'll never know what the actual server traces are: PGI would never tell us.... Alternative acounts makes this even worse.

Your numbers may be what you found but, after playing a dozen matches in a row, with breaks inbetween them, I've ended up with the same 5 or 6 players each and every match in QP..... In Scouting, if you actually find a match, even worse...... I don't play FP at all anymore becuase of ghost drops and stomps.

So, what does this non-technical, observation data mean? Let's compare this to WoW, another game I tinker in: I've never had the same 5 or 6 players in a row, ever..... One, maybe two, but that is it.......and, I suspect, that was because of ship class and tier, not because of player density...

On LRM's, PGI has destroyed an entire weapons class and everybody is estatic ! Woo-Hoo, we've finally made tracking missiles obsolete................then, small pulse lasers were nerf'd; then medium lasers were nerf'ds; then 2xGauss/PC was nerf'd; then long range precision calculations were nerf'd; and, PGI isn't done yet. Solaris can't handle the existing TTK (whatever the game developers have calcualted as a viable TTK) because the matches would be too short, especially at "GuD' player levels and with meta builds.....

The moral is: we all need to stop trying to eliminate any weapons from MWO, seriously...... Or, you'll end up running out of ammunition before you'll be able to kill another mech sitting 100 meters in front of you. Just an opinion and an intuition.=

The devs said something about solaris a couple days ago and I think he said it would be 1vs1 or 2vs2 which doesn't interest me much. If thats what it is then it's gonna get taken over by a few pro teams that your average players won't be able to compete with and won't bother playing it. Kinda like Faction play is now.