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Proving Lrms Are Good, Again.



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#301 MischiefSC

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:22 PM

View PostLightfoot, on 13 March 2018 - 08:01 PM, said:


It's mostly that in MWO you now need 5-6 LRM15 or you are wasting your time. That MWO bowed to the LRM-whiners rather than deliver a MechWarrior game that is on par with previous versions where 2xLRM15 were functional instead of useless. That's the Lore I am talking about. MWO players whined and whined that they shouldn't have to hide from LRMs when the purpose of LRMs is to control open spaces on the map. Well you can still do that, but now you can only do so with 5-6 Clan LRM15 (less with Inner Sphere versions). Anything else has no effect, the brawlers just run across any open space with near total impunity. MWO's LRMs are no more than place holders.


All total BS.

The purpose of LRMs in MWO, as it was in tabletop and every other Battletech game, is the same as every other weapon. To damage enemy mechs, usually directly. In tabletop LRMs had the option to do indirect fire with a dedicated spotter (who could take no other actions but move that round) and at all your regular negatives from movement and any other factors, plus any negative modifiers your spotter has from movement and cover, plus 1 extra. Which made IDF terribly inaccurate ( mid range is target 6, plus 1 for spotter just walking to get Los, +1 if target is a slow moving heavy, +1 for IDF gives you a target of 9 on 2d6 assuming you're stationary, the target is slow and in the wide open with no partial cover or even light woods) and usually a poor use of ammo.

Every weapon in the game with even mid range can control open spaces on the map and do it way, way, way better. Any serious direct fire loadout in the game can cripple or kill a mech inside of 1 sec of it leaving full cover.

LRMs have always been inferior for that. There is 1 and only 1 thing that LRMs are good for - shooting while hiding when your teammates are fighting and in Los of the target. Every single other thing LRMs can do other weapons do better.

The fix for LRMs is to do what all the terribads who want a locking IDF weapon to perform equal to a aiming required DF are unwilling to consider - buff LRMs for direct fire use to make them comparable for direct fire and make IDF require TAG/NARC.

However there will always be people terrified of their pretend robbit getting shot and who want to damage or destroy enemies without having to risk being shot in turn, which is pretty fundamental to any games balance. There will always be people who feel that aiming is like haxx and only people who cheat or 'have no life's can manage to sit at a desk at home in safety and comfort and put a mouse pointer pretty exactly where they want reasonably quickly and maybe even have adjusted the games default mouse settings to make that as efficient as possible.

So we can't have LRMs be good because then they would be OP AF in the hands of everyone who's willing to put at least two whole teaspoons of effort into it just so everyone else can feel like a winner without using to actually aim or expose themselves to getting shot.

#302 Trenchbird

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:23 PM

View PostLightfoot, on 13 March 2018 - 08:17 PM, said:


I know. But LRMs need to be good enough to upset the missile-haters. When you have the missile-haters liking LRMs you know you have created a place-holder rather than LRMs.

Actually, they still upset me. Because they tend to promote a "Sit and wait" playstyle, and most people who swear by them are trash at the game, but still get inflated egos because of that diamond-in-the-rough match.

You want LRMs to be buffed? Sure, not that they really deserve. But let's mix up the map terrains so we don't have atrocities like Polar Highlands and Arctic Peaks, before you do.

Edited by Catten Hart, 13 March 2018 - 08:23 PM.


#303 Vellron2005

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 01:07 AM

View PostCatten Hart, on 13 March 2018 - 08:23 PM, said:

and most people who swear by them are trash at the game, but still get inflated egos because of that diamond-in-the-rough match.


I'm sorry, but I just can't call LRMs bad, or call myself trash at the game, when yesterday I had two consecutive QP matches like I did..

1. match was Tourmaline I think, I did 3 Solo kills and 1100+ damage.

2. match was Polar Highlands, where I did 4 Solo kills and 5 KMDDs, with 1300+ damage.

Both matches I carried, the next most damaging guy had less than half my damage and kills. Also, note that on Tourmaline, i had a guy face-hug me, I think it was a cheetah, I killed him from fresh, point-blank, with my lasers and full missile alphas. (Clan LRMs).

True, one map was Polar, but the other was Tourmaline, a place notoriously bad for LRMs.. and hot as hell. Nobody can tell me LRMs are bad.

Right before the two matches, I had a match on Rubellite with 2KMDDs and 600-ish damage..

Build used: Highlander IIC, 4xLRM20 (3500+ ammo) and 2xHML..

P.S.

On second thought.. yes.. LRMs are terribad.. not OP at all.. terribad I tell you! Please Buff Posted Image

Edited by Vellron2005, 14 March 2018 - 01:12 AM.


#304 Dogstar

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 04:29 AM

View PostBrain Cancer, on 13 March 2018 - 01:17 PM, said:


I'm sorry,what was that about lore and LRMs? I mean, it's not like MWO has stock builds straight from TT with six LRM 15s or someth-

http://www.sarna.net...a_Cat_(OmniMech) Alt. Config. B Alternate Configuration B deviates from the formula of the Primary and Alternate Configurations greatly, as it is a missile boat rather than a sniper, being equipped with six LRM-15s. A pair of ER Medium Lasers provide short-range backup.


Aaw man, now I want to try a Nova Cat LRM boat, luv dem kitties!

#305 Lykaon

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 04:58 AM

View PostCatten Hart, on 13 March 2018 - 08:03 PM, said:

And I love it this way.

TO KNOW THE LRMTURRET IS TO HATE THE LRMTURRET.



I know it is so much easier to not have to think of lanes of approach suppresion fire and actual counter play. Why learn to use defilade when you can just march right through weapon fire that should be redirecting your approach or at the very least forcing the enemy team to develope a semblance of a strategy.

Why should you team's fast skirmishers have to think about where the LRMs are coming from and formulate a counter strategy. It's so much better when everyone of them is a 12 MG monstrosity humping assault mech legs taking advantage of the lack of knock down and proper collision damage.

It's just easier to not have any effective area control in this game beyond blasting photons down range.I mean why have to alternate weapons for specific functions and roles when nearly everything else is a better option over using LRMs.

Why complicate things by having a properly orcastrated victory include more than hide...poke...hide...poke..hide...........

#306 Xiphias

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 05:12 AM

View PostVellron2005, on 14 March 2018 - 01:07 AM, said:

I'm sorry, but I just can't call LRMs bad, or call myself trash at the game, when yesterday I had two consecutive QP matches like I did..

1. match was Tourmaline I think, I did 3 Solo kills and 1100+ damage.

2. match was Polar Highlands, where I did 4 Solo kills and 5 KMDDs, with 1300+ damage.

Anecdotal outliers don't disprove statistical trends. I wouldn't call you trash, but it's not as if you've got amazing stats. You're pretty much "average" at best.

Quote

Both matches I carried, the next most damaging guy had less than half my damage and kills. Also, note that on Tourmaline, i had a guy face-hug me, I think it was a cheetah, I killed him from fresh, point-blank, with my lasers and full missile alphas. (Clan LRMs).

If you killed a fresh Cheetah point blank with LRMs and 2xHMLs then the Cheetah pilot was terrible or your team saved you.

Quote

True, one map was Polar, but the other was Tourmaline, a place notoriously bad for LRMs.. and hot as hell. Nobody can tell me LRMs are bad.

Yes they can. Your stubbornness doesn't change the facts. LRMs are usable, but inferior to most other weapons. Answer me this, if LRMs are good why didn't you see them in the WCs and why are they rarely if ever used in comp?

#307 Horseman

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 05:18 AM

There are conditions where LRMs are useful. More often than not, the enemy has to be seriously incompetent to allow you to do well with a LRM boat.

#308 Curccu

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 05:18 AM

View PostVellron2005, on 14 March 2018 - 01:07 AM, said:


I'm sorry, but I just can't call LRMs bad, or call myself trash at the game, when yesterday I had two consecutive QP matches like I did..

1. match was Tourmaline I think, I did 3 Solo kills and 1100+ damage.

2. match was Polar Highlands, where I did 4 Solo kills and 5 KMDDs, with 1300+ damage.

Both matches I carried, the next most damaging guy had less than half my damage and kills. Also, note that on Tourmaline, i had a guy face-hug me, I think it was a cheetah, I killed him from fresh, point-blank, with my lasers and full missile alphas. (Clan LRMs).

True, one map was Polar, but the other was Tourmaline, a place notoriously bad for LRMs.. and hot as hell. Nobody can tell me LRMs are bad.

Right before the two matches, I had a match on Rubellite with 2KMDDs and 600-ish damage..

Build used: Highlander IIC, 4xLRM20 (3500+ ammo) and 2xHML..

P.S.

On second thought.. yes.. LRMs are terribad.. not OP at all.. terribad I tell you! Please Buff Posted Image

Average match score under 250 past 3 season while mostly playing assault mechs.

1. Tourmaline is one of the better maps for LRMs, sure there is cover but also enough ground to flank those and get good angles.

2. The best map for LRMs not impressed.

Damn worst ACH pilot in the planet earth.

Anyone can tell you LRMs are bad, you can choose not to listen. It doesn't mean you are right about it.

And used pretty much strongest clan LRM mech there is.

If you would perform constantly like those matches your average match score would be between 500-700 not 250.

PS. I do play LRMs now and then so I very much understand their limitations and strengths.

#309 Lightfoot

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 09:34 AM

View PostCatten Hart, on 13 March 2018 - 08:23 PM, said:

Actually, they still upset me. Because they tend to promote a "Sit and wait" playstyle, and most people who swear by them are trash at the game, but still get inflated egos because of that diamond-in-the-rough match.

You want LRMs to be buffed? Sure, not that they really deserve. But let's mix up the map terrains so we don't have atrocities like Polar Highlands and Arctic Peaks, before you do.


The one failing of MWO is to utilize map based load-outs and tactics. Previous MechWarrior games all required players to analyze the map characteristics and adjust their load-outs accordingly. MWO dummies all that down by just not revealing the map to be played on until after Mechlab. This approach has the downside of making the weapons exceedingly difficult to balance because they have to work on every map. In earlier MechWarrior games if you brought a brawler to a long range map that was just your personal mistake to learn how to do it right the next time hopefully.

With MWO's inability to utilize Mechlab for the map to be played on, they had to make LRMs trash. And they are trash. MWO LRMs promote boating to the extreme. As such a mech with a functional amount LRMs exhibit the one-dimensional play-style you say you dislike.

That is certainly not how BattleTech portrays LRMs. BattleTech LRMs are good enough to support a varied multi-range load-out on a mech (Timber Wolf, Mad Dog, Zeus). A mech that starts hitting before it's even spotted, then moves in to finish off softened up targets with other weapons. MWO's LRMs are so bad they can't even fulfill the role of a secondary weapon and so in MWO LRMs are boated to extremes or never used. That is wrong and that is why I refuse to use them. They are dead weight and place-holders for what LRMs should be.

#310 JRcam4643

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 10:15 AM

View PostErronius, on 13 March 2018 - 08:06 PM, said:

This game largely represents how I feel about lurms. I...like them a lot. I really do. They're a guilty pleasure of sorts. Some days I just log on and I'm like "Sorry folks in QP, you're gonna be stuck with me lurming today, I hope you're used to losing". As if I'm admitting to myself that I'm feeling somewhat lazy and just want to lock on and FIRE ZE MISSILES. But I know that they're far less effective than their damage would lead someone to believe. And while on one hand I was thrilled that I managed to pull 1.2K damage in a Hunchback on HPG of all maps, a lot of that depended on having someone doing an awesome job Narcing ( o7 DarwinianReject, he did an awesome job, best player on my team that match, I'd wager) and I still managed to get zero kills. And while the two of us were tag-teaming stragglers as they Nascared, they just marched through the other 10 people on our team one by one until I was the last man standing, fighting an Atlas and Spider with just small lasers left (and even if I had somehow managed to kill both of them...which wasn't gonna happen...there was still a Supanova and Giant Enemy Crab left).

I dunno if I could have turned the match around in a different 50 tonner, with pinpoint weaponry. I'm not gonna lie...I'm T1...but I'm not a T1 level player, if you know what I'm saying. I am not a TTB or Baradul or TheB33f or ColonelOneill or Jujushinobi or any of hundreds of players that could/would wipe the floor with me, easily. Lurms just help me bridge that gap to some extent. But even with all the damage I did, I honestly don't think it made a difference. I probably could have just stayed in the spawn and ran in circles, for all of the difference I made. I feel like the biggest variable in QP is MM, and good luck with that.

I've had so many, many games in lurm mechs where I've gone 300-400 damage and no kills that I wouldn't dream of posting this game as 'proof' that LRMs are effective, even if I had filmed the match. IMHO, a large part of "LRM Effectiveness" is predicated on the enemy either getting caught in the open, or freaking out and hiding in cover...and that's probably only in T5-T4, and maybe some T3. I don't think most T1 players/teams gives a toss about lurms and all your rainbow does is give them a vector to push towards. Anymore I feel like my lurms are more effective used to blind people in the path of my teammates push (if they actually push!), and that I might do better either running a splat build (no-skill YOLO gameplay, but more effective than LURMS I guess?), laservom or ballistics...


P.S. Pls PM me Ilya builds, I'm still not sure if my current 2xUAC10 build is the best use of that chassis. Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image


Posted Image

Posted Image


So you have twice the damage of the next highest team mate and you have 7 assists. You just assume that all that damage had 0 effect on those 7 mechs being killed. That seems to be a common mind set illness here on the forums that if you don't get a bunch of kills you didn't help no matter how much damage you do. I know it's technically possible to kill a mech with out doing much damage with the almost mythical pinpoint aim weapons. You see against a moving target thats shooting back few people have the accuracy to do that. Any damage being done should be gleefully accepted.

#311 JRcam4643

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 10:28 AM

View PostThroe, on 14 March 2018 - 10:14 AM, said:

Your video doesn't really prove much. I'd be willing to believe your stated claim if you could do an unedited string of matches consecutively in which you did consistently well with LRMs in a Tier 1 match during the highest active play times of the day. Problem is, no one would watch that video, because it would be well over 2 hours long with lots of boring transitions in it between combats.

It has been proven that LRMs *can be* an effective weapon in certain circumstances(despite all the naysayers). Your video does reinforce that fact. You'll note though, that in their current form, in the game we have at this moment, they were not used at all in the MWO WC matches, which easily proves the counterclaim that they're not weapons you'd bring to a match if you wanted consistent competitive damage output. They're just too easy for a skilled opponent to mitigate, even without the use of AMS.



These are consecutive battles. If I was cherry picking you think I would have 300 something battles? I don't care about WC matches, I don't do group play, competitive play and rarely do I get into faction play. I almost only do quick play and in that universe LRMs are pretty good.

#312 Trenchbird

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 10:43 AM

View PostLykaon, on 14 March 2018 - 04:58 AM, said:

Why complicate things by having a properly orcastrated victory include more than hide...poke...hide...poke..hide...........

Funny, I never said I played pokewarrior. Thanks for assuming I did, because I really hate doing that.

#313 Brain Cancer

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 12:07 PM

Quote

TO KNOW THE LRMTURRET IS TO HATE THE LRMTURRET.


Because LRMs are arguably the worst weapon balance in the game. You hate seeing a friendly one because it's a waste of a lance slot, and you love to hate it as a red target because it's an opponent you can obliterate from a position of superiority, especially since they're usually terribads hiding out there in the map squares away from everyone else if they aren't promptly turned into C-bill target practice by a light.

Quote

Actually, they still upset me. Because they tend to promote a "Sit and wait" playstyle, and most people who swear by them are trash at the game, but still get inflated egos because of that diamond-in-the-rough match.

You want LRMs to be buffed? Sure, not that they really deserve. But let's mix up the map terrains so we don't have atrocities like Polar Highlands and Arctic Peaks, before you do.


The sad thing is the best response to "OMG, they have a lot of lurmboats" is generally pointing your lights and fast mediums straight at the line of missile contrails and telling them "free kills!".

Which if it's bad lurmers, that's precisely what happens. Team pushes, lurmer gets comfy in a terrain nook, speedy enemy shows up, lurmboat explodes. Half the delight I got out of ATMs early on was people mistaking me for a lurmboat, only to eat a 40+ ATM alpha at perfect range and hitting the ground in three pieces.

Also, if LRMs were actually a dangerous weapon, people would use AMS, rather than the much cheaper but occasionally unavailable on maps rocks and buildings. And if Alpine/Polar had that, LRMs would suck just as badly there as they do anywhere else. Might be Frozen City levels of suck, but still. And as it stands now, teams actually using AMS would relegate LRMs (and ATMs) to late-game systems unable to significantly penetrate a deathball's worth of antimissile fire.

The honest damning of LRMs comes from tournament play, though.

LRMs simply don't exist at any level other than novelty there. Paul has stated this is because LRMs kill newbies, despite not providing said newbies with any level of equally newbie-friendly missile defense to judge them against.



On just about every other regular map- even Alpine - there's enough cover to degrade missile fire to an annoyance unless you're already being roflstomped by the enemy.

#314 Brain Cancer

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 12:15 PM

Quote

And while on one hand I was thrilled that I managed to pull 1.2K damage in a Hunchback on HPG of all maps,


A better measurement here is to look at the other stats.

You got 3 KMDDs and five destroyed components out of that 1200 damage. I've said it before- spread damage is inefficient unless you can counter the spread, but your 20-LRM hits were likely saturating every hitbox but the head, even considering they're not hideous spread for an LRM launcher. And unlike LB's or SRMs or MRMs, you can't even try to direct that damage, nor do enough to brute-force through.

It's why the medium as a lurmisher is dead these days. MRMs do the job far better.

#315 Xiphias

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 07:25 PM

View PostJRcam4643, on 14 March 2018 - 10:28 AM, said:

These are consecutive battles. If I was cherry picking you think I would have 300 something battles? I don't care about WC matches, I don't do group play, competitive play and rarely do I get into faction play. I almost only do quick play and in that universe LRMs are pretty good.

They really aren't though, not compared to the alternatives. Are LRMs passable if played properly? Yes, you can solo pug with LRMs and put up good numbers consistently. Could you contribute more with other weapons? Yes, if you're a competent pilot you will contribute more with direct fire weapons than you will with LRMs.

It doesn't matter if you play competitively, the point of bringing competitive play in is to show that with players than are good at the game LRMs are rarely an effective weapon system and are outclassed by other weapons.

Your numbers shown aren't bad, but they aren't outstanding either. I'd guess that once you get to T1 (assuming you aren't currently) you'll find LRMs (while still usable) aren't as effective as they are in low tiers.

The important point is that a few individual matches don't prove that a weapon (LRMs) is good.

#316 Erronius

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 08:27 PM

View PostJRcam4643, on 14 March 2018 - 10:15 AM, said:


So you have twice the damage of the next highest team mate and you have 7 assists. You just assume that all that damage had 0 effect on those 7 mechs being killed. That seems to be a common mind set illness here on the forums that if you don't get a bunch of kills you didn't help no matter how much damage you do. I know it's technically possible to kill a mech with out doing much damage with the almost mythical pinpoint aim weapons. You see against a moving target thats shooting back few people have the accuracy to do that. Any damage being done should be gleefully accepted.


No, it's that even for all that damage, it wasn't enough with lurms to swing the game. Did it have an effect? Sure. But 2xArtLRM10s dont have the pinpoint and burst to knock enemies out quickly...it's like the drip-drip-drip of water torture, but with missiles. And by the time I'd managed to burn through my ammo, most of my team was dead and the game had already been decided in earnest long before. And sure, I could have taken some kind of lurm80 build to have more damage early in the match...but then you're taking a heavier mech with a suboptimal build. I mean, I give you points for taking a MDD lurm build...that's better than a lurm supernova...and I'm not telling you to NOT play a lurm build. But like that game you had on Polar Highlands...I would have been giddy countering their push if I had been in a SRM36 MDD.

"pinpoint aim weapons" aren't mythical. Far from it. Even if you're aiming at side/center torsos and only manage to hit them 50% of the time, that's still many times better than the spread you get with lurms. And if you're like me and your aim isn't the best, take a splat/ballistic build and get into someone's face.

View PostBrain Cancer, on 14 March 2018 - 12:15 PM, said:

A better measurement here is to look at the other stats.

You got 3 KMDDs and five destroyed components out of that 1200 damage. I've said it before- spread damage is inefficient unless you can counter the spread, but your 20-LRM hits were likely saturating every hitbox but the head, even considering they're not hideous spread for an LRM launcher. And unlike LB's or SRMs or MRMs, you can't even try to direct that damage, nor do enough to brute-force through.

It's why the medium as a lurmisher is dead these days. MRMs do the job far better.


I totally agree. And this was going to be much of my answer to JRcam4643. I went through a lot of my end-game screenshots earlier, and ignoring the extremely odd LURM outlier, my Kills, KMDDs and components destroyed are all far lower with lurms than with pretty much any other type of build. But, honestly, that's why I don't run my lurm mechs very often. It's bad enough trying to skill up new mechs, I don't really want to compound that with running tons of lurm builds, too.

#317 JRcam4643

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 08:59 PM

View PostErronius, on 14 March 2018 - 08:27 PM, said:


No, it's that even for all that damage, it wasn't enough with lurms to swing the game. Did it have an effect? Sure. But 2xArtLRM10s dont have the pinpoint and burst to knock enemies out quickly...it's like the drip-drip-drip of water torture, but with missiles. And by the time I'd managed to burn through my ammo, most of my team was dead and the game had already been decided in earnest long before. And sure, I could have taken some kind of lurm80 build to have more damage early in the match...but then you're taking a heavier mech with a suboptimal build. I mean, I give you points for taking a MDD lurm build...that's better than a lurm supernova...and I'm not telling you to NOT play a lurm build. But like that game you had on Polar Highlands...I would have been giddy countering their push if I had been in a SRM36 MDD.

"pinpoint aim weapons" aren't mythical. Far from it. Even if you're aiming at side/center torsos and only manage to hit them 50% of the time, that's still many times better than the spread you get with lurms. And if you're like me and your aim isn't the best, take a splat/ballistic build and get into someone's face.



I totally agree. And this was going to be much of my answer to JRcam4643. I went through a lot of my end-game screenshots earlier, and ignoring the extremely odd LURM outlier, my Kills, KMDDs and components destroyed are all far lower with lurms than with pretty much any other type of build. But, honestly, that's why I don't run my lurm mechs very often. It's bad enough trying to skill up new mechs, I don't really want to compound that with running tons of lurm builds, too.


2 LRM10s is what you had? That's not very much and certainly not enough to make a judgment about them.

#318 Vellron2005

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 12:38 AM

You know guys...

After reading some of the comments and opinions here, it is clear to me that literally NO AMMOUNT of success with LRMs will convince some people that LRMs are just as good, useful and fun as any other weapon.

Some poeple will just always hate the system and the playstyle, and have an overwhelming need to put down those that use it.

Literally no ammount of great matches and stats will persuade them.. they will only care about top-tier stats, WL/KD ratios and average matchscores..

However, those with half a brain will always know a simple fact - fun cannot be measured in stats. And fun is the only thing that really matters in a videogame.

So no.. NOBODY can give me crap about LRMs.. they can only express their opinion, and just like they choose to ignore mine, I shall ignore theirs.

#319 Bombast

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 02:04 AM

View PostVellron2005, on 15 March 2018 - 12:38 AM, said:

You know guys...

After reading some of the comments and opinions here, it is clear to me that literally NO AMMOUNT of success with LRMs will convince some people that LRMs are just as good, useful and fun as any other weapon.

Some poeple will just always hate the system and the playstyle, and have an overwhelming need to put down those that use it.

Literally no ammount of great matches and stats will persuade them.. they will only care about top-tier stats, WL/KD ratios and average matchscores..

However, those with half a brain will always know a simple fact - fun cannot be measured in stats. And fun is the only thing that really matters in a videogame.

So no.. NOBODY can give me crap about LRMs.. they can only express their opinion, and just like they choose to ignore mine, I shall ignore theirs.



Conveniently ignoring two things.

1) No statistical check, at this point, has been favorable to LRMs. They perform worse than just about anything else over a large enough number of matches to be relevant. Full stop.

2. This thread isn't about how 'fun' LRMs are. It's about how good they are. If you're having fun, good for you. If you're claiming LRMs are good, well... we may have an issue.

#320 cougurt

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 02:11 AM

View PostVellron2005, on 15 March 2018 - 12:38 AM, said:

You know guys...

After reading some of the comments and opinions here, it is clear to me that literally NO AMMOUNT of success with LRMs will convince some people that LRMs are just as good, useful and fun as any other weapon.

Some poeple will just always hate the system and the playstyle, and have an overwhelming need to put down those that use it.

Literally no ammount of great matches and stats will persuade them.. they will only care about top-tier stats, WL/KD ratios and average matchscores..

However, those with half a brain will always know a simple fact - fun cannot be measured in stats. And fun is the only thing that really matters in a videogame.

So no.. NOBODY can give me crap about LRMs.. they can only express their opinion, and just like they choose to ignore mine, I shall ignore theirs.

no one's saying you're not allowed to play them. by all means, if you enjoy LRMs, play them to your heart's content. however, this topic is about whether or not they're good, and it's a simple fact that they aren't.





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