73 replies to this topic

[Kargush]

They're bolt-ons for mechs that haven't really got anything useful to do with that extra ton or two. I got them on a Locust, a Raven, and a King Crab. All of them use them for a bit of extra SURPRISE! when closing with the enemy or when doing a drive-by (in the lighter mechs).

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

They seem to do very little damage compared to the numbers given in the mechlab. Maybe the spread is too large or their hitreg is terrible?

[LordNothing]

Kargush, on 12 December 2017 - 11:01 PM, said:

They're bolt-ons for mechs that haven't really got anything useful to do with that extra ton or two. I got them on a Locust, a Raven, and a King Crab. All of them use them for a bit of extra SURPRISE! when closing with the enemy or when doing a drive-by (in the lighter mechs).

this never happens on a good build. an rl20 is 3 slots and 1.5 tons, thats a heat sink and more armor, or more ammo, or a targeting computer and a small laser, or an srm2 and half a ton of ammo, or bap if using locking weapons, or an engine upgrade. there are so many good options that rocket launchers is pretty far back on the list. its a novelty nothing more.

[Kargush]

LordNothing, on 13 December 2017 - 01:45 AM, said:

this never happens on a good build. an rl20 is 3 slots and 1.5 tons, thats a heat sink and more armor, or more ammo, or a targeting computer and a small laser, or an srm2 and half a ton of ammo, or bap if using locking weapons, or an engine upgrade. there are so many good options that rocket launchers is pretty far back on the list. its a novelty nothing more.

Sometimes you haven't got the space for more heat sinks, have maxed armour, and already carry enough ammo to need a "handle with care" decal, and so a pair of slots and 1 ton for two rockets launchers isn't a bad deal.

[Curccu]

Had some success with them in scouting Bushwacker P1 with 4xASRM6 + 2xRL20, nice burst damage if you got lance full of those.
That minimum range is annoying, would be nice to pointblank them into someones back CT

[LordNothing]

Kargush, on 13 December 2017 - 02:18 AM, said:

Sometimes you haven't got the space for more heat sinks, have maxed armour, and already carry enough ammo to need a "handle with care" decal, and so a pair of slots and 1 ton for two rockets launchers isn't a bad deal.

when the choice is between a 3-slot 1.5ton rl20 and a heat sink then the heat sink is always going to be the better choice. i usually take the tc1 over the 15. half a ton and a slot doesnt really have that many options unless you have an extra laser slot or an ammo weapon which could use another half ton. i suppose the 10s are good for when you want to have multiple shots with a minimal tonnage impact and when you have missile slots to burn. and 3 10s fit in the space of a single 20, so its a better option when hardpoints are available. lack of missile slots tend to limit this though.

but where the 'when you have tonnage left over' argument really breaks down is that i never see one launcher, i see people carry 3 rl20s. thats like 4.5 tons and 9 slots you could have used for better weapons and equipment. that kind of thing treads on gimping your main loadout.

Edited by LordNothing, 13 December 2017 - 11:58 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

How Useful Are Rocket Launchers?

not as useful as airstrikes

which can potentially do more damage, can hit multiple mechs, have better range, and dont cost tonnage or crits

the one shot rocket launcher makes it pretty obvious how overpowered strikes really are

Edited by Khobai, 13 December 2017 - 11:57 AM.

[RoadblockXL]

Only scenario I could see them being worth taking is on an energy boat that has an empty missile slot, but doesn't have enough slots free for more heatsinks. Like the GHR-5H.

Edited by RoadblockXL, 13 December 2017 - 01:27 PM.

[4r3s]

I came here because I wondered what people thought about them, and I don't know if a lot has changed or anyone will still read my comment;
But I didn't expect people to think that "badly" about them.
I never played them without the minimum range as I just recently picked the game up again. But I instantly thought it was a good balancing as they would be really abusable.
Especially in this current (Quick Play) meta, where a big alpha strike / fast takedown and the ability to punish people trying to push or outmaneuver flanks is very important (imo), I feel like they are really really good.
That being said, they are obviously no choice for "main weaponry" but with rocket hardpoints I always had the problem of rockets feeling to be very "specialized" weapons. They have very dedicated ranges of effectiveness and the weight + ammo often disqualifies them to be good "additions". So you either take a lot of rockets and play accordingly (close range / lrm etc.) or you just don't take em with you and enjoy more flexibility.
I now have a LOT of builds where I just fill 2-3 rocket hardpoints with Rocket Launchers.
I just wait for an opportunity and it often makes a big impact on my games.
See someone turning his back ? Use it.
Someone getting too close ? Use it.
Need to leg that light now ? Use it.

I think the option of rocket launchers is a big advantage of IS over Clan right now (for me, I only play quick match) and I have been enjoying them a lot.
My tip: Take em and just wait, don't stress it, just play your game. The point were they will be worth their tonnage will come in my experience.

[Jman5]

I still stand by the point I made in this thread about a year ago. Not overpowered, but definitely undervalued.

I think it's just an inherently difficult weapon for people to value. It would be like if I asked you how many tons is an airstrike worth? You have to come at the problem in a different way then we usually do when judging weapons. Instead of looking at things like alphastrike, or DPS, you have to zoom out and look at average DPM (damage per match) of a weapon like a medium laser or whatever. Then you compare that with the DPM you get from a rocket launcher.

What I find fun about rocket launchers is it can allow you to take on a mech that normally just outclasses you. So if I'm playing my Orion with 3 RL 20s and I come across an assault, the rocket launchers annihilate the inherent HP and damage advantage it would have had otherwise. They're always so confident and aggressive in the match up. Then you chainfire them all into his torso along with your regular alpha and it's lights out. "W-w-what happened?!"

[Bud Crue]

I use em on a couple of builds. Favorite is an MRM60 archer and then 4 R20s in the arms (Edit) and a 15 in the CT. Drop the rockets, hit a cool shot and then brawl with the MRMs like normal and your arms are now nice shields. The other is the Thanatos hero (Hangover). 3LPLs and the rest rockets. Works OK.

Rockets are just very circumstantial is all. I find them useful to start a fight (assuming I don't mis-time my cool shot) or end one, but in the middle all they seem to do is overheat you and spread all over hell.

Edited by Bud Crue, 09 March 2019 - 09:53 AM.

[Koniving]

FupDup, on 12 December 2017 - 01:08 PM, said:

The basic summary is "lolno."

Weapons that have only one single use while costing tonnage (consumables have zero sacrifice so they are very different) will never be good in regular conditions (battle of attrition). That tonnage will always be better spent building the rest of your loadout to be more efficient at dealing damage throughout an entire match.

Rocket Launchers were just a stupid thing to be added to MWO. Only way they'd make sense is if they ignored corerule and let them have multiple uses.

Or if they didn't ignore lore, and other weapons were damage rating over time rather than upfront damage per bullet (which technically does ignore corerule by going with lorerule)....then we wouldn't have double armor/structure, and it'd be the equivalent of each RL in MWO doing 6 damage rather than 3. And nothing says that the entire volley has to be fired at once, there's actually instances where they are not.

But I'm living in a fantasy.

[VulcanXIV]

As with many weapons, the boating mentality also applies to rockets. If you can't take enough rockets to blap a single assault into submission then they're usually not worth it. Even if they're lightweight they kind of end up taking more slots than I would prefer for a one-shot weapon.

In the end though what really kills it for me is their minimum range. For the most part it's what keeps them from being too good as a blap-boat but it also kills it as a spare-tonnage backup weapon system.

Edited by VulcanXIV, 09 March 2019 - 10:33 AM.

[dwwolf]

MRM60 + max RL on Archer is good for some fun.

Baradul has a video on the build.

[Grus]

Extremely situational sums it up.

[Kubernetes]

I sometimes run a Griffin 2N w/ 2 snub nose and 4x RL20. It's different and forces you to approach engagements with a little more forethought. It does let you single out one big threat and kill or neutralize him quickly.

[VonBruinwald]

Curccu, on 13 December 2017 - 02:35 AM, said:

That minimum range is annoying, would be nice to pointblank them into someones back CT

The original fear was assaults being one-shotted from behind by IS lights boating them... then the Piranha dropped and did pretty much this. The argument the a Piranha should be able to achieve this feat because it takes a couple of seconds loses meaning when it can repeat the feat multiple times per match whilst rockets are a one-shot system.

The minimum range really needs to go.

On a side note: Does anyone know if rocket launchers explode when critted out? Have yet to experience an ammo explosion from one. If not I'll happily trade an ammo explosion risk for no minimum range.

Edited by VonBruinwald, 09 March 2019 - 02:35 PM.

[FupDup]

VonBruinwald, on 09 March 2019 - 02:35 PM, said:

The original fear was assaults being one-shotted from behind by IS lights boating them... then the Piranha dropped and did pretty much this. The argument the a Piranha should be able to achieve this feat because it takes a couple of seconds loses meaning when it can repeat the feat multiple times per match whilst rockets are a one-shot system.

The minimum range really needs to go.

A "Jihadist Javelin" with 6 RL20 has an alpha strike of 240 damage. That can oneshot fresh assaults from the front. No, having only one salvo in a match does not balance it because it's pure ******** with very little room for counterplay from the one unlucky target.

Rocket Launchers just have poorly implemented mechanics that make them too much of a "pendulum swing" kind of item with no middle ground.

[VonBruinwald]

FupDup, on 09 March 2019 - 02:42 PM, said:

Rocket Launchers just have poorly implemented mechanics that make them too much of a "pendulum swing" kind of item with no middle ground.

Treating them the same as MRM's and making them stream fire is an easy way to 'fix' them.

[Gristle Missile]

Good if you got spare tonnage/slots after you finish a build

Bad if you got poor DPS to start with