219 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Brain Cancer, on 21 December 2017 - 04:18 PM, said:

So are lasers, only they're better at softening specific armor sections and melting what's actually beneath. In a game where you can precision kill far easier than you can sandblast for the win, "softening up the enemy" translates to "minimal real damage while your opponent conducts his XL check on you."

Now, maybe if said spread damage was exceptionally accurate? But it isn't.
Maybe if it did exceptional damage to counter it's scattering? But it doesn't.

It's Russ's favorite weapon though. Because it's mediocre.

My biggest gripe about LRM arguments on the forums is the people stating incorrect info and personal opinions as fact. LRMs need a lot of work to fix - I would love, LOVE for them to be viable. LRMs and ATMs. Kill ATM (and LRM) minimum range and give them scaling damage or even just a flat 1/2 damage within it, among other things.

However we can't get to a useful consensus when you've got people saying LRMs are great if you use them right.

Always goes the same way - let's test it.

Which always ends the same way, all the 'LRMs are great if you use them right' people disappear. Because deep down they know that put to the test LRMs get crushed by direct fire when you can't count on the other team being bads or you're not completely surprising them - which would also work with direct fire for that matter.

The only thing LRMs do that other weapons don't do better is do splattered, minimally effective damage while hiding. As this leaves your team 1 mech down for trading and 1 lane less covered it increases their odds of their team losing. As such LRMs are a bad weapon.

Which we can't fix because that would mean the people who use LRMs to pad their stats while using their teams as pug armor would have to admit that what they play and how they play it gimps their team. Which they won't do because self honesty is like haxx.

[Kroete]

OmniFail, on 21 December 2017 - 06:16 PM, said:

Disregard this guy he pads his numbers with stacked teams in CW. He then uses his padded stats as leverage to stat shame you. Then he says there is no stat shaming. Its called gas-lighting.

Nah, he just was touched by lrms and now he has a trauma ...

And please dont trigger him!
He will moan and cry the whole match (or 3 pages long in the forum) about the bad and evil lrms.
Luckily he is mostly in his safespace where lrms are seldom.

Edited by Kroete, 21 December 2017 - 07:16 PM.

[Bombast]

Kroete, on 21 December 2017 - 07:15 PM, said:

Luckily he is mostly in his safespace where lrms are seldom.

LRMs can be found in all queues, even CW. Barring scouting matches where the enemy team goes mega potato, they're almost universally terrible.

[MischiefSC]

Kroete, on 21 December 2017 - 07:15 PM, said:

Nah, he just was touched by lrms and now he has a trauma ...

And please dont trigger him!
He will moan and cry the whole match (or 3 pages long in the forum) about the bad and evil lrms.
Luckily he is mostly in his safespace where lrms are seldom.

Screenshots or it didn't happen.

LRMs are not bad as in evil.

They are bad as in ineffective.

As has been shown repeatedly both in stats, the math and statistics behind it and in test.

As always if you want to test it then please let me know. Been trying for a while to get a team of LRM players to test it. 8 v 8, 12 v 12, up to you. You pick the map. Only requirement is that at least 2 mechs on the LRM team have LRMs as the primary weapon.

[Bombast]

MischiefSC, on 21 December 2017 - 07:57 PM, said:

As always if you want to test it then please let me know. Been trying for a while to get a team of LRM players to test it. 8 v 8, 12 v 12, up to you. You pick the map. Only requirement is that at least 2 mechs on the LRM team have LRMs as the primary weapon.

I think I said this before, but I'd be up for testing on the side of LRMs (Since I'm sure that's the side you're missing).

[MischiefSC]

Bombast, on 21 December 2017 - 08:03 PM, said:

I think I said this before, but I'd be up for testing on the side of LRMs (Since I'm sure that's the side you're missing).

Velleron offered too.

I think we've got about 3 or 4 with you. Appreciate the offer, maybe some day we'll get 8!

[InvictusLee]

MischiefSC, on 21 December 2017 - 08:33 PM, said:

Velleron offered too.

I think we've got about 3 or 4 with you. Appreciate the offer, maybe some day we'll get 8!

I'm up for it. Its really hilarious when you get two or more lrm boats on a team. lol

[MischiefSC]

November11th, on 21 December 2017 - 08:55 PM, said:

I'm up for it. Its really hilarious when you get two or more lrm boats on a team. lol

That's 4 or 5, any of you able to get 3-7 more?

They don't even have to take LRM boats - whatever you guys feel is the best possibly way to take/play LRMs 'right'. I'm guessing that isn't 12 LRM boats.

[Q]

MischiefSC, on 21 December 2017 - 09:08 PM, said:

That's 4 or 5, any of you able to get 3-7 more?

They don't even have to take LRM boats - whatever you guys feel is the best possibly way to take/play LRMs 'right'. I'm guessing that isn't 12 LRM boats.

Happy to help in the interest of science. Wait, what are we testing?

Also, good luck scheduling us all together. =D

But seriously I don't mind goofing off for an hour; I'll play on either side.

I'm already having regrets.

[InvictusLee]

Whatever happens, someone please record it and throw it up on youtube.

[SFC174]

MischiefSC, on 21 December 2017 - 07:57 PM, said:

Screenshots or it didn't happen.

LRMs are not bad as in evil.

They are bad as in ineffective.

As has been shown repeatedly both in stats, the math and statistics behind it and in test.

As always if you want to test it then please let me know. Been trying for a while to get a team of LRM players to test it. 8 v 8, 12 v 12, up to you. You pick the map. Only requirement is that at least 2 mechs on the LRM team have LRMs as the primary weapon.

Sounds fun. Will the non-LRM team be allowed to bring AMS?

[MischiefSC]

SFC174, on 21 December 2017 - 09:40 PM, said:

Sounds fun. Will the non-LRM team be allowed to bring AMS?

Bring what you want, both sides. Though I think it's fair to say limits on AMS and ECM comparable to what you'd see in QP; say max 2 AMS mechs, 1 ECM mechs?

[SFC174]

Drop me a line when you organize it. I'll play either side if I'm on.

[Kroete]

MischiefSC, on 21 December 2017 - 07:57 PM, said:

They are bad as in ineffective.

As has been shown repeatedly both in stats, the math and statistics behind it and in test.

Our stats are nearly the same, again.
I´m curious what excuses you will bring this time?

Do you remember the last time, that we compared our stats?

[Xiphias]

Kroete, on 22 December 2017 - 06:13 AM, said:

Our stats are nearly the same, again.
I´m curious what excuses you will bring this time?

Do you remember the last time, that we compared our stats?

Ooh, a stat waving competition. Can I play?

Your stats aren't bad, you're definitely above the average player. That said, LRMs are bad. There's a reason you don't see comp teams running them.

[MischiefSC]

Kroete, on 22 December 2017 - 06:13 AM, said:

Our stats are nearly the same, again.
I´m curious what excuses you will bring this time?

Do you remember the last time, that we compared our stats?

I don't think you get what nearly the same is statistically.

Though a 1.44 w/l is good! Props on that. If you've got that after 80 matches this season it's a huge improvement. I was at a 2.6 for a while but as I played more matches it evened out. Been playing more lights/mediums this month than I normally ever do and struggling but you don't want to be a one trick pony.

Do you want me to show you the math on performance on LRMs and go over it again? I realize that it's only been put up on the forums a hundred times and proven out testing a hundred times but I can provide it for you again.

How about you just come participate in a LRM vs Direct Fire 8v8 (12 v 12 if we can get the people) test? Only requirements are LRM team has to have at least 2 mechs that are LRM primary weapons, other team gets max 2 AMS and 2 ECM mechs (about what you'd see in QP on average), LRM team picks map, both teams build decks. We'll decide based on 8 v 8 or 12 v 12 what the tonnage/mech class breakdown is to keep it fair. Once we have the LRM team we'll build the direct fire team as closely balanced for skill as possible - specifically because I've never been able to get 8+ pro-LRM players to commit to it and show. Maybe you'd like to volunteer? Show us all how amazing they are vs direct fire. We'll test it, my hope is at least 6 matches, and have a test case.

You can show us all how it's done before you go dominate comp play with LRMs. Rock Div A/Div B MRBC, all that stuff. Eager to see it.

[Kroete]

MischiefSC, on 22 December 2017 - 01:20 PM, said:

I don't think you get what nearly the same is statistically.

Though a 1.44 w/l is good! Props on that. If you've got that after 80 matches this season it's a huge improvement. I was at a 2.6 for a while but as I played more matches it evened out. Been playing more lights/mediums this month than I normally ever do and struggling but you don't want to be a one trick pony.

How about you just come participate in a LRM vs Direct Fire 8v8 (12 v 12 if we can get the people) test?

Nah, no teamspeak for me, still problems after a stroke.
But we had this allready, dont want to rewrite all, with a searchfuction i could show it to you,
if i remember right, it was in the cw part of the forum,
where we had this discussion with nearly the same words.

And 8+ LRM users in a match is bad,
you know support weapon,
but we had this too ....

And you also know that there is a difference between complay and quickplay,
go to the comp-forum if you want to talk about compplay.

You can do good in quickplay, you can dominate in quickplay and it doesnt matter if its different in compplay.
Maybe there is a reason why quick and comp play are divided, why they have different forum parts and stuff?
For quickplay they are good enough to get the same stats as you.

MischiefSC you are playing nearly like a man with a stroke, arthrosis, chronic tennis ellbow, mostly stoned to reduce painkiller usage, playing just for fun and not using meta and beeing official disabled.
If you are the primeexample of a compplayer .....
I dont know how do you do in compplay, but maybe there is a difference in quick and compplay?
I think its a different game, but then you cant come with mimimi they are bad in compplay, thats bullshiet!

Edited by Kroete, 22 December 2017 - 07:49 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Kroete, on 22 December 2017 - 07:49 PM, said:

Nah, no teamspeak for me, still problems after a stroke.
But we had this allready, dont want to rewrite all, with a searchfuction i could show it to you,
if i remember right, it was in the cw part of the forum,
where we had this discussion with nearly the same words.

And 8+ LRM users in a match is bad,
you know support weapon,
but we had this too ....

And you also know that there is a difference between complay and quickplay,
go to the comp-forum if you want to talk about compplay.

You can do good in quickplay, you can dominate in quickplay and it doesnt matter if its different in compplay.
Maybe there is a reason why quick and comp play are divided, why they have different forum parts and stuff?
For quickplay they are good enough to get the same stats as you.

MischiefSC you are playing nearly like a man with a stroke, arthrosis, chronic tennis ellbow, mostly stoned to reduce painkiller usage, playing just for fun and not using meta and beeing official disabled.
If you are the primeexample of a compplayer .....
I dont know how do you do in compplay, but maybe there is a difference in quick and compplay?
I think its a different game, but then you cant come with mimimi they are bad in compplay, thats bullshiet!

I don't play comp play. I've never really played comp play. That has nothing to do with the conversation. Not sure why you keep bringing comp play into it; though they are similar in as much as what works in one works pretty well in the other.

LRMs are bad at doing useful damage. They spread damage, slow and promote shooting while hiding. Reward it even - which makes them unable to cover a lane or effectively punish targets of opportunity. The only thing that LRMs do that other weapons don't do better is shoot while hiding, which is a terrible strategy to take because it leaves your team a functional man down.

There are no 'support' weapons other than NARC, TAG and flamers. Everything else is just a weapon, designed to kill mechs. If you've got health issues that make LRMs your best option, that's great. As I've said a million times use what you want and what you like. However arguing that LRMs are comparable to direct fire is an unsupportable position.

[Temporary Axis]

Look let them use Lurms. Anyone who relies on poorly implemented aimbot with spread is just ripe for farming.

Look forward to shooting your side torsos off out there!

(the corollary to that is, if you lurm me to death, I screwed up. Bad. Skill less dumb-fire weapon death is shamefuru!)

Edited by Temporary Axis, 23 December 2017 - 02:12 AM.

[jss78]

...or give us the Longbow, so we can do it in style.

Edited by jss78, 23 December 2017 - 02:08 AM.