242 replies to this topic

[Davegt27]

OP is doing it wrong

you start a thread and say so in so Mech is OP please nerf

you don't go out and buy the darn thing
because if you cry you just nerfed your own Mech

[Mcgral18]

I see the Clam Apologists have joined us

[Khobai]

well hes wrong about most of that stuff except the bit about clan assaults.... they are glass cannons.

the direwolf is a complete joke when it should be one of the most feared assaults in the game. nobody is afraid of it because you can just boop it on the nose and it dies.

slow, cant torso twist well, no armor/structure quirks, enormous square hitboxes, doesnt get its ecm variant, its jumpjets are useless, it literally has no traits that improve its survivability whatsoever.

I suppose its still better than an atlas, but thats not exactly saying much lol. Not when you see like 3 annihilators on each team now...

Edited by Khobai, 22 December 2017 - 02:34 PM.

[K O Z A K]

I'm really enjoying my time in IS so far, much more hands on gameplay vs the clan take a shot....go have a smoke...do the dishes....vacuum my place......come back, ok finally good to shoot again

[Y E O N N E]

Mole, on 22 December 2017 - 02:05 PM, said:

And there is very little difference between 70 and 75 tons, and very little difference between 60 and 65 tons, and between 60 and 65 tons, and between 55 and 60 tons, etc etc.

Sorry. I mostly agree with what you are saying in your post but I just had to scratch the itch that was this little logical feedback loop you just created.

I wouldn't say it's a feedback loop. He was comparing an 80 to an 85 tonner, I was just going one size the other way to show that we've got the same incongruity going on in either direction. There are plenty of 'Mechs that are stronger than heavier 'Mechs.

Grus, on 22 December 2017 - 02:13 PM, said:

We have lightmechs that arnt fast enough and don't have enough HP. We have heavies that are too fast and don't have enough HP with too much firepower to brawl without overheating in less than 5 seconds. Our assalts don't have enough staying power and not enough hp to counter the powercreep of IS assalts.. see the trend? No? I'll help you.. Glass cannons..

"Too much firepower" is all on you. You don't have to pack it to that point.

MAD-IIC and SNV seem to have plenty of staying power.

Still, don't like glass cannons? Then you'll have to accept a permanent nerf to offensive capabilities.

[knight-of-ni]

anonymous223, on 22 December 2017 - 05:48 AM, said:

I have

annihilator with 80 alpha, std engine, 160 front armor that alphastrikes 9 times in a row
while the poor direwolf has only 120, shoots only twice in a row and has bad hitboxes.

banshee with 5 erll , range, cooldown boosts and 40 standard heat sinks so i can shoot all day non stop and high mounts, while clan erll atm are super ultra nerfed.

BLR 1g with 500 meters on ermeds vs 475 on clans

Victors and Orion VA with ac20+3 or 4 srm6 that can brawl like an 85 ton clan Scorch

grasshoppers, that can laservomit with 20 dhs and 10% heat on top of that and have an accell decell rate of 26-29 versus the 16-19 of the timberscrap

bounty hunter with 1 gauss 6 ermed and 1 ll that has ermeds with more range than clan ones


ilya muromet: 2gauss+2erll with an assault level armor and amazing quirks of all kind, vs the night gyr that has way less armor and basically half dps


bushwaker 6 srm 4 fusion 300 with more armor than a timber


kintaro 5 streak 6, with streak 6 that have faster cooldown than clan streak 2

assassins that are just invincible

I have no idea on how the clans are supposed to face this with 25 tons less

You forgot to say neener, neener....

[Jackal Noble]

MischiefSC, on 22 December 2017 - 02:04 PM, said:

Or Linebackers. Or Orion IICs. Or EBJ 9mpls, or 2HLL, 4 or 5 cerml HBK IIC, or 2xLBX20 HBK IIC... it's a long list.

Longer than IS available options? surely not. Clan is still outnumbered in most weights as far as a long list of mechs.

lol.... ok. Remember those first waves that you had your assaults to cycle with and deal with the mixed IS wave of assaults and heavies? That requires 170-190 of those 240 tons allotted. Fine, not wanting to throw all your cards in one lot, you go assault, heavy, heavy, light. Ya know, so I can have that long list ready for the rush wave of Assassins. lmao
Argue comp and pug crap all you want Mischief, but the buck stops for FW man.
Orion IIC maybe, but OP did get that right. A a knee cap less Victor will straight up woop an orionIIC.
Ebon Jag with the 9MPL is pretty decent, just has absolute crap hitboxes for getting dirty, and is easy prey for any IS player that knows what he's doing.
Linebacker is about the strongest suit you mentioned, due to it's ability to withstand more than one salvo.
Hunch Lasvom - again, this isn't pug warfare, either you are fighting at long distance or brawling. the moment the enemy gets within 500 meters for you to get that sweet alpha, they are in your gates or on you by the next one.
2 LBX 20 Hunch - Oh lord now there's no way you are honestly being serious. For faction? now who is the troll? *I'll wait as you prepare some sort of response so as to vailidate this one, because you will.

Please teach me in the ways of a master, Mischief. I have never played faction warfare ever.

Mcgral18, on 22 December 2017 - 02:24 PM, said:

I see the Clam Apologists have joined us

I see sniveling elitist that probably attends prep school on mom and dad's buck.

[Grus]

Mole, on 22 December 2017 - 02:05 PM, said:

And there is very little difference between 70 and 75 tons, and very little difference between 60 and 65 tons, and between 60 and 65 tons, and between 55 and 60 tons, etc etc.

Sorry. I mostly agree with what you are saying in your post but I just had to scratch the itch that was this little logical feedback loop you just created.

True 5 tonnes isn't a huge difference no argument there.
The difference is when you match them up with what you see in fp. I.e normal dropdecks used this pattern for clans. An assault 85, a heavy 65, a med 55, and a light 35. What I see coming from IS is 100, 80, 40, 40. So in every wave save 1 we have a disadvantage in tonnage and hp. Now raw alpha is on the clan side with no contest. So you have to learn to trade Well, meaning apply damage without reciving ant or as little as possable.

[Lykaon]

anonymous223, on 22 December 2017 - 05:48 AM, said:

I have

annihilator with 80 alpha, std engine, 160 front armor that alphastrikes 9 times in a row
while the poor direwolf has only 120, shoots only twice in a row and has bad hitboxes.

banshee with 5 erll , range, cooldown boosts and 40 standard heat sinks so i can shoot all day non stop and high mounts, while clan erll atm are super ultra nerfed.

BLR 1g with 500 meters on ermeds vs 475 on clans

Victors and Orion VA with ac20+3 or 4 srm6 that can brawl like an 85 ton clan Scorch

grasshoppers, that can laservomit with 20 dhs and 10% heat on top of that and have an accell decell rate of 26-29 versus the 16-19 of the timberscrap

bounty hunter with 1 gauss 6 ermed and 1 ll that has ermeds with more range than clan ones


ilya muromet: 2gauss+2erll with an assault level armor and amazing quirks of all kind, vs the night gyr that has way less armor and basically half dps


bushwaker 6 srm 4 fusion 300 with more armor than a timber


kintaro 5 streak 6, with streak 6 that have faster cooldown than clan streak 2

assassins that are just invincible

I have no idea on how the clans are supposed to face this with 25 tons less

So is that Annihilator running an XL engine that survives a side torso destruction? How about those 2 slot double heatsinks? I bet you could fit Endo steel AND ferro fibrious armor on there right? How about those 4 slot UAC10s that weight in at 10 tons bet ya got four of those on that I.S. mech right? With those light and compact guns bet you have plenty of ammo and room for more heatsinks right? Oh and maybe some energy weapon back we all know you have plenty of space and tonnage left right?


Myromets with 46 tons of guns on it? So you have what like 6 tons of armor? and a XL 250 that kills you when the side torso goes out? I will take the Night Gyr it's faster has more armor and doesn't die from losing a side torso.Oh and POP TARTS!

Bushwacker with 6 x SRM4 and a standard 300 engine? so 5 tons of ammo and it overheats nigh instantly? sounds like garbage wrapped in armor. Unless that mech also has the suicide box Inner Sphere XL on it ?

I mean I would build it with the XL at least 8 tons ammo and 14 double heatsinks to keep the missiles firing. But, it's survival is reduce from the engine so that armor sorta compensates for it.

Your Bounty hunter sounds like a crap version of a Ebon Jag.

Kintaro...really? Huntsman! Hell I would put an Arctic wolf on the dropship before a Kintaro streak boat.

Does that Kintaro have an engine? or is it running no ammo? Does it have a BAP? So what is it? under armored,under engined,short on ammo vulnerable to ECM hard counter or all of the above?

A Huntsman running the same 5 SSRM6 with 1 ton ammo per launcher Active probe (jumpjets) and durable clan XL still has around 2.5 to 3 tons left over. With maxed out armor! And it's 5 tons lighter than the Kintaro... that need to shave it's RA to zero and thin the head and leg armor to do the same build AND has the suicide box engine and less mobility (no jets)

Cry me a river....

[Grus]

Lykaon, on 22 December 2017 - 03:13 PM, said:

So is that Annihilator running an XL engine that survives a side torso destruction? How about those 2 slot double heatsinks? I bet you could fit Endo steel AND ferro fibrious armor on there right? How about those 4 slot UAC10s that weight in at 10 tons bet ya got four of those on that I.S. mech right? With those light and compact guns bet you have plenty of ammo and room for more heatsinks right? Oh and maybe some energy weapon back we all know you have plenty of space and tonnage left right?


Myromets with 46 tons of guns on it? So you have what like 6 tons of armor? and a XL 250 that kills you when the side torso goes out? I will take the Night Gyr it's faster has more armor and doesn't die from losing a side torso.Oh and POP TARTS!

Bushwacker with 6 x SRM4 and a standard 300 engine? so 5 tons of ammo and it overheats nigh instantly? sounds like garbage wrapped in armor. Unless that mech also has the suicide box Inner Sphere XL on it ?

I mean I would build it with the XL at least 8 tons ammo and 14 double heatsinks to keep the missiles firing. But, it's survival is reduce from the engine so that armor sorta compensates for it.

Your Bounty hunter sounds like a crap version of a Ebon Jag.

Kintaro...really? Huntsman! Hell I would put an Arctic wolf on the dropship before a Kintaro streak boat.

Does that Kintaro have an engine? or is it running no ammo? Does it have a BAP? So what is it? under armored,under engined,short on ammo vulnerable to ECM hard counter or all of the above?

A Huntsman running the same 5 SSRM6 with 1 ton ammo per launcher Active probe (jumpjets) and durable clan XL still has around 2.5 to 3 tons left over. With maxed out armor! And it's 5 tons lighter than the Kintaro... that need to shave it's RA to zero and thin the head and leg armor to do the same build AND has the suicide box engine and less mobility (no jets)

Cry me a river....

Someone got triggered

In mech vs mech of the same class clan should have an edge... problem is in FP we are hardly ever on a even plane. IS get more tonnage so for the most part we are fighting mech's 10/15 tonne heavier per wave.

An example is a matchup all to often I see, marader2c vs annihilator. 76pnt alpha vs 40pnt. By the numbers the 76 looks to have the advantage. Shot for shot you're right. But the 40pnts of A.C. damage the anni can spit out can keep coming. The 76 Las vomit you WILL have to pop a CS to not shutdown to fire again. And in that time before you can fire again the anni has done over 80 PPFLD where the Las can be spread over the mech. (Toe to toe no cover engagements)

This is just a basic example of the hill clan mech's have to climb.

[Mcgral18]

JackalBeast, on 22 December 2017 - 02:39 PM, said:

I see sniveling elitist that probably attends prep school on mom and dad's buck.

Hey, just because you can't use the best robots in the game isn't my problem
That right there is a reportable offence!
Can't have that in our SafeSpace

[SmokeGuar]

Time to declare MWO gun free zone.
(lurms died already, damn forum whiners)

[MischiefSC]

JackalBeast, on 22 December 2017 - 02:39 PM, said:

Longer than IS available options? surely not. Clan is still outnumbered in most weights as far as a long list of mechs.

lol.... ok. Remember those first waves that you had your assaults to cycle with and deal with the mixed IS wave of assaults and heavies? That requires 170-190 of those 240 tons allotted. Fine, not wanting to throw all your cards in one lot, you go assault, heavy, heavy, light. Ya know, so I can have that long list ready for the rush wave of Assassins. lmao
Argue comp and pug crap all you want Mischief, but the buck stops for FW man.
Orion IIC maybe, but OP did get that right. A a knee cap less Victor will straight up woop an orionIIC.
Ebon Jag with the 9MPL is pretty decent, just has absolute crap hitboxes for getting dirty, and is easy prey for any IS player that knows what he's doing.
Linebacker is about the strongest suit you mentioned, due to it's ability to withstand more than one salvo.
Hunch Lasvom - again, this isn't pug warfare, either you are fighting at long distance or brawling. the moment the enemy gets within 500 meters for you to get that sweet alpha, they are in your gates or on you by the next one.
2 LBX 20 Hunch - Oh lord now there's no way you are honestly being serious. For faction? now who is the troll? *I'll wait as you prepare some sort of response so as to vailidate this one, because you will.

Please teach me in the ways of a master, Mischief. I have never played faction warfare ever.



I see sniveling elitist that probably attends prep school on mom and dad's buck.

Map.

Look at the map.

Even when all but 2 units went IS, all they managed to do was break even. They didn't take worlds back.

I'll gleefully 1 v 1 you in a Victor vs a Orion IIC. I'm not sure if you're joking or kidding or just don't play much. Or are you taking like LRMs and MGs on your Onion IIC?

Saying the 9 MPL EBJ is 'easy prey' is so disingenuous I just don't even. 63 pts of fast burning mid range lasers that you can do again and again and again. Will destroy Grasshoppers all day every day. It's not tanky but it's a lot of firepower. If i want tanky I take the LBK. Or really even the HBR. Or the Orion. Or the MDD, which can do laservomit. I take the EBJ for destroying mediums, lights and other heavies when I can kill them much faster than they can kill me.

FW is the only good place to play the 2xLB20X HBK. It's an excellent answer to Assassins. Aim for the groin. For the 3rd wave it's excellent, crit Lynx for wave 4.

Again, the map. The FW Leaderboards. Everyone else is succeeding easily as Clans. If you're not it's a personal performance issue. You want to 1 v 1 and go over the strengths vs weaknesses I'd be happy to. Not saying I'm the greatest player but I'm pretty familiar with what winning in Clans looks like and am happy to show you.

Grus, on 22 December 2017 - 03:28 PM, said:

Someone got triggered

In mech vs mech of the same class clan should have an edge... problem is in FP we are hardly ever on a even plane. IS get more tonnage so for the most part we are fighting mech's 10/15 tonne heavier per wave.

An example is a matchup all to often I see, marader2c vs annihilator. 76pnt alpha vs 40pnt. By the numbers the 76 looks to have the advantage. Shot for shot you're right. But the 40pnts of A.C. damage the anni can spit out can keep coming. The 76 Las vomit you WILL have to pop a CS to not shutdown to fire again. And in that time before you can fire again the anni has done over 80 PPFLD where the Las can be spread over the mech. (Toe to toe no cover engagements)

This is just a basic example of the hill clan mech's have to climb.

If Clans have an edge 1 v 1 then game balance is ****. That's a bad game and an indication of bad game design.

They did that in TT, for a bit, until it was identified as a clear and abject failure. Then it was abandoned and went back to 1 to 1.

Oh, and there's this cover thing. You know, map stuff. Big things. That you can stand behind. So you're not just standing in the open unmoving and trading DPS.

Did you know the AC10 has ghost heat? It's not 40 pts, it's 20,20. Move, twist to shield. Because the Anni twists so slowly he can't actually shoot, twist, shoot, twist to spread damage with the AC10s unless he gives up DPS. You're going to burn 76 pts in him, twist, twist, 76 again.

Oh, and shoot the legs on an Anni.

Edited by MischiefSC, 22 December 2017 - 06:14 PM.

[Ted Maul]

Dear me this is a ****** thread.

How about we just consign it the scrap heap with the other million threads on exactly the same topic?

[Jay Leon Hart]

JackalBeast, on 22 December 2017 - 02:39 PM, said:

Please teach me in the ways of a master, Mischief. I have never played faction warfare ever.

I see sniveling elitist that probably attends prep school on mom and dad's buck.

Does someone need a hug?

You're especially salty lately, perhaps take a break from the game, or at least the forums?

I worry about your blood pressure.

Grus, on 22 December 2017 - 02:52 PM, said:

So you have to learn to trade Well, meaning apply damage without reciving ant or as little as possable.

To be fair, IS can't exactly stand in the open and just weather the incoming fire to no ill effect. Armour & structure quirks only let you survive part of a single volley from a single 'mech, per location.

[Chados]

Frankly, I think overall Clan-IS balance is the best it ever has been to date.

Who would have ever thought that the Victor would make a comeback? I actually see more 9S Victors than the loyalty version. Maulers are still the predominant IS Assault that I see, along with Annihilators, but an unsupported ANH is light bait that can’t defend itself. Marauders still are everywhere, as are Jagermechs and Riflemen. Uziels are trash though I love ‘em and need major armor quirks stat. Even Vindicators are decent but Catapults need defensive quirkage badly and don’t have the hardpoints. The Thanatos has about disappeared which is interesting as most have ECM and seemed to have good staying power from what I saw fighting them. IS energy-heavy lights like the Wolfhound are better than most Clan lights other than the MLX and ACH, but I really like the loyalty Kit Fox. The machine gun nerf that came out preparatory to the Piranha hurt the Clan lights.

On Clan side, it’s time for IS FW dropdeck weights to get nerfed or Clan weights to get a boost. And the Night Gyr needs an agility boost real, real bad but it still is a tough cookie. It has the *only* hero mech of all the mechs out there that I liked so much I bought a Jade Kite for my alt as well as my main during the last sale. Marauder IICs and Mad Cat Mark IIs are good midrange fighters with a lot of versatility. I prefer the Deathstrike over Scorch because I find Clan missile boating a little hot and not my taste. I like the Hunchback IIC with uAC10s and ERML, it’s a tiny Rifleman with jump jets. What’s not to love there? IIC Jenners need a size reduction so that they’re the same size as IS Jenners. Orion IICs are every bit as strong as any mech in the 70-85 ton class and I see more IICs than IS Orions. Timberwolves need an agility and armor boost because they get power focused every time they pop up thanks to their lore reputations. Dire Wolves ditto, but the Warhawk is still pretty nasty, I see a lot of 4xERPPC Warhawk Primes out there.

Edit: I don’t run much FW, I mostly am a quick play warrior. In FW from what I’ve seen it comes down to the team. Skittles vs. KCom or Evil are getting murdered all day every day. What’s happening when a good IS outfit like HHoD is going up against a premier Clan team like KCom? That would be a good indicator of FW balance.

Edited by Chados, 23 December 2017 - 03:53 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Grus, on 22 December 2017 - 03:28 PM, said:

In mech vs mech of the same class clan should have an edge

Why?

[TWIAFU]

Mole, on 22 December 2017 - 09:28 AM, said:

How many threads has that been in one week from this guy talking about how IS is OP?

DATA does not like to use actual data.

[MischiefSC]

Chados, on 23 December 2017 - 03:46 AM, said:

Frankly, I think overall Clan-IS balance is the best it ever has been to date.

Who would have ever thought that the Victor would make a comeback? I actually see more 9S Victors than the loyalty version. Maulers are still the predominant IS Assault that I see, along with Annihilators, but an unsupported ANH is light bait that can’t defend itself. Marauders still are everywhere, as are Jagermechs and Riflemen. Uziels are trash though I love ‘em and need major armor quirks stat. Even Vindicators are decent but Catapults need defensive quirkage badly and don’t have the hardpoints. The Thanatos has about disappeared which is interesting as most have ECM and seemed to have good staying power from what I saw fighting them. IS energy-heavy lights like the Wolfhound are better than most Clan lights other than the MLX and ACH, but I really like the loyalty Kit Fox. The machine gun nerf that came out preparatory to the Piranha hurt the Clan lights.

On Clan side, it’s time for IS FW dropdeck weights to get nerfed or Clan weights to get a boost. And the Night Gyr needs an agility boost real, real bad but it still is a tough cookie. It has the *only* hero mech of all the mechs out there that I liked so much I bought a Jade Kite for my alt as well as my main during the last sale. Marauder IICs and Mad Cat Mark IIs are good midrange fighters with a lot of versatility. I prefer the Deathstrike over Scorch because I find Clan missile boating a little hot and not my taste. I like the Hunchback IIC with uAC10s and ERML, it’s a tiny Rifleman with jump jets. What’s not to love there? IIC Jenners need a size reduction so that they’re the same size as IS Jenners. Orion IICs are every bit as strong as any mech in the 70-85 ton class and I see more IICs than IS Orions. Timberwolves need an agility and armor boost because they get power focused every time they pop up thanks to their lore reputations. Dire Wolves ditto, but the Warhawk is still pretty nasty, I see a lot of 4xERPPC Warhawk Primes out there.

Edit: I don’t run much FW, I mostly am a quick play warrior. In FW from what I’ve seen it comes down to the team. Skittles vs. KCom or Evil are getting murdered all day every day. What’s happening when a good IS outfit like HHoD is going up against a premier Clan team like KCom? That would be a good indicator of FW balance.

Clans still win the significant majority of those.

Again, the clear consensus among good players and teams is that Clans are better. Even with the IS tonnage advantage.

[WhineyThePoo]

in response to the OP;
No.