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#201 Karl Streiger

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 04:22 AM

View PostNesutizale, on 12 August 2019 - 03:50 AM, said:

So even with the blueprints at hand it took about 7 years till the factories where producing enough stuff to supply enough new tech to all the houses/units/market and upgrade older designs. Still its earlier then I anticipated. I allways had the impression that the tech was realy comming into fruition shortly before (1-2 years) or during the clan invasion as the IS had to found development much faster now then ever before.

I think even FASA did correct that incredible stupid plot of - meh we have tech our grand great fathers use - to completely upgraded mechs in mere months or weeks (think of Galen Cox Crusader, or Kais YLW) - what they did was to deliver a complete redesigned mech from a factory and complete testing and all the other stuff in what one or two years?

No the introduction happened much earlier of course - even in the war of 39 new reintroduced tech was used, although with some problems.

#202 Nesutizale

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 06:41 AM

Its been so long since all that happend and I read the books that the dates on what happend when, etc. are kinda blurry.
Also my memorie is surely heavly influanced by when/how the new tech was introduced to me and that was basicly with the TRO3050 landing on my table.

Does it make sense that they upgraded over a long time? Surely it makes more sense that way, I agree on that point.

#203 Koniving

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 12:57 AM

View PostNesutizale, on 12 August 2019 - 06:41 AM, said:

Its been so long since all that happend and I read the books that the dates on what happend when, etc. are kinda blurry.
Also my memorie is surely heavly influanced by when/how the new tech was introduced to me and that was basicly with the TRO3050 landing on my table.

Does it make sense that they upgraded over a long time? Surely it makes more sense that way, I agree on that point.


Technically, the "new tech" knowledge starts propagating shortly after 3028.
First under the implied help of the Wolf's Dragoons it is found. (Discovery of the location of the Helm Memory Core, because shhhh we work with the Clans and were told to ensure that the IS is ready for the Clan invasion, so we'll use our non-lost data to tell you where to find a big cache of data that...we might have actually hidden ourselves [its unclear]).

At the command of and under the protection of the Gray Death Legion, it is given to merchants piecemeal for them to sell to houses under the merc-unit's protection. This pisses off Comstar to no end...

Each faction gets different bits of the information and begins developing different technologies. Some of the earliest technologies begin combat trials within a few years, others don't see action even in prototype form for a decade or more, and don't see the light of day in its proper form for another couple of years (Gauss Rifles; many prototypes fielded in 3038, undergo refinements, re-appear as its standard version two years later. First machines using them are refits.and mechs using them as standard off-the-factory-line equipment don't start rolling out for almost another decade.

So 22 years for some of it to be in initial mass production. In some cases longer, in some shorter. ECM for example took 17 years (but to be fair, Liao already had working Electronic Warfare Equipment in 3025 so they had a head start on it). Steiners got XL engines into initial production in 7 years (3035) but it started as refits of existing machines before it became a factory line norm. Dracs got the first pulse lasers up and going in 9 years (3037).

#204 Koniving

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 01:02 AM

View PostAsmosis, on 11 August 2019 - 11:20 PM, said:

Sidenote:

In that video at 07:32 he mentions the game covers a long timeline. I assumed it was just 3015, but is that only the start point? what years does the game cover?


Now that I see the original post.
It was originally said that the game would cover 3015 to 3049, and the first alpha gameplay showed us a potential Clan invasion(?). (Could just be any random mass attack; but that very first playable thing was just a proof of concept).

It is generally assumed (or at least I am assuming) that the game ends August, 3049.
The first encounter with the Clans in the Periphery.
It could end sometime later in 3049, when the Clans get a little closer to home. I'm personally assuming the final story mission will have a Clan force just pwn you to death.
Keep in mind that modifying and repairing mechs takes weeks, between systems can take about a week for something close to a few months and several jumps if it is far away. With the milkyway at your disposal and lots of places to go, you'll "grow old in die" in game before reaching every location which is meant to help boost replay-ability.

I do recall hearing that the timeline was changed a little bit, to be something starting closer to 3020 or 3025 (but still ending in 3049), but the first mention of years was 3015 to 3049.

So at most, 34 years to run your unit before you die.
At least 24 years before you die.

(Assuming the game ends with your death, and not fading to black at the first sighting of a Clan mech).

Edited by Koniving, 16 August 2019 - 01:15 AM.


#205 Nesutizale

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 03:52 AM

I think when the time comes near 3049 I will be somewhere tropical. Just sell all my mechs and retire ^_^

#206 Asmosis

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 07:27 AM

Ah I see, so no clans (at least until the "final mission" phase of the game) to line it up for the next entry in the series. hopefully it sells well. I'm not fussed about clans being excluded, its refreshing to play games before they were introduced.

Edited by Asmosis, 25 August 2019 - 07:30 AM.


#207 Nesutizale

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 10:09 AM

What I would like to see, if MW5 playes well, is that they would work on a campaign where you can witness how brutaly effective the clans where at the beginning of the war. A just story driven, very focused campaign. Maybe you are with a house unit as reinforcement and you get pushed back hard at the beginning, basicly fighting a loosing battle, maybe have some papyrus victorys but in the end need to flee....until the table slowly starts to turn and finaly Tukkayyid.
Sure we would need a way to get you into Comstar but some creative writing should help.

Edited by Nesutizale, 25 August 2019 - 10:10 AM.


#208 Asmosis

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Posted 27 August 2019 - 10:05 PM

There's certainly some interesting things they can do, and I hope both the BattleTech and the MechWarrior games are popular enough to allow that to happen.

Currently HBS are shooting themselves in the foot repeatedly with their DLC's though.

#209 Koniving

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 10:18 PM

View PostAsmosis, on 27 August 2019 - 10:05 PM, said:

There's certainly some interesting things they can do, and I hope both the BattleTech and the MechWarrior games are popular enough to allow that to happen.

Currently HBS are shooting themselves in the foot repeatedly with their DLC's though.

HBS has 'technically' not produced a single DLC.
They sold their game rights, company, etc.to Paradox Interactive.

Jordan Weissman's always had a bit of an issue with keeping something going, he'll start a company, run it for a while, and then sell it, and occasionally buy it back or some rights associated with the old company, produce something else and then flip the company again. (Well to be fair he ran things for a long time before doing that.)
history
Spoiler


Paradox has kept most of the original HBS staff and kept them working on Battletech 2018, but Paradox is known for continuously expanding games rather than making new games, meaning Battletech may eventually have 100+ expansions by 2028.


Well that exhausting.. Didn't plan on going through all that, but yeah basically Jordan has a habit of flipping companies since 2000. Considering that he's also an adjunct professor at the USC School of Cinema-Television since I'm guessing 2010.. I suppose I don't blame him for not having the time to run the companies and instead just getting them built up a bit to sell them at a profit.

Somewhat sad he didn't try to reclaim all the rights back, but such is life.


--------

Anyway..
For lack of wanting to start another thread, while doing research and such for weapons in the BT universe, I came across Battlepack: Fourth Succession War, which has some decent art (much better than many of the related TROs) from 1998. I think, though, the artist of the Hoplite probably let us know his or her inspiration by being a little too obvious.


Posted Image
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(Zeon mobile suits, especially the Zaku and Zaku II)
(Every other Hoplite illustration has a 5 window pane arrangement).

(I've decided that when I get advance enough in MW5 moddng, I will add mechs to it. Hoplite is a simple but extinct (in the IS) design that mysteriously reappears in absolutely astonishing numbers in 3005 as the Wolf's Dragoons appeared out of nowhere. By 3020 the 4B, 4C and 4D variants were as common if not more so than Hunchbacks...which, to be fair, Hunchbacks were numerous but steadily going extinct until a new company started producing a 'remastered' or 'classic' Hunchback in the early 3030s...which looked 'off' to any classic Hunchback lover as the AC/20's barrel was considerably smaller, the drum was deliberately made incompatible with the original's, and it lost "some of its squat charm" as it was a bit taller and not as thin [making space for enhancements like an XL engine or double heatsinks as well as ensuring anything Hesperus II's robust refit kit market was incompatible as a big corporate middle finger to them).
(Also to be fair, by 3020 Wolf's Dragoons cut ties with the Clans, apparently, which also stopped them from receiving brand new Hoplites. But by then they had sort of flooded the IS with them.)

So anyway, because of how common the Hoplite gradually became, it makes sense to make it and put it in. Its simple design should make it pretty easy. Someone else is gonna have to texture it and perhaps tweak the model a bit after I'm done, though I have an idea of whom I could get to do that.

Edited by Koniving, 23 September 2019 - 10:34 AM.


#210 Koniving

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 05:55 AM

So, I was looking at the MW5 site for some motivation.

And I saw this.

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You've got 30 seconds; can you see what is unusual here?
Spoiler


#211 Nesutizale

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 03:13 PM

That this seams to be an AWS-9M that shouldn't be around that time or was it nearly the very end of the games timeline?
Or is it that the feet are actualy at the ground and not clipping in like they do in MWO?

#212 Koniving

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 01:44 PM

View PostNesutizale, on 30 September 2019 - 03:13 PM, said:

That this seams to be an AWS-9M that shouldn't be around that time or was it nearly the very end of the games timeline?
Or is it that the feet are actualy at the ground and not clipping in like they do in MWO?


Both.

But it has a head laser AND a Head SRM-2

O.o

#213 Koniving

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 01:48 PM

Also inverse kinetics (so no reason for lack of knockdowns short of having to make new animations.

Explosive groin (someone doesn't want this thing walking)

Plenty more. But the main thing is for a game where the mechlab is limited and weapons not having brands but upgrades.... Someone has put an sm in this thing's head. Or this isn't a 9m but one of the st missile variants...but then there is the arm's launcher..

Edited by Koniving, 02 October 2019 - 01:49 PM.


#214 Nesutizale

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Posted 03 October 2019 - 03:00 AM

I think it kinda hard to see. The laser is clearly in the head but the launcher could also be CT or side torso with a position very close to the head.

As for knockdowns...I am not even certain that I want them. Sure its a singleplayer but from, I think it was MW4, I remember running a mech that was knocking down mechs left and right. Efficient sure but also boring.
Also remember that knockdowns can also work on you and with the enemy most likely outnumbering you, you might face more knockdowns then you might like.

#215 Koniving

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 03:43 PM

View PostNesutizale, on 03 October 2019 - 03:00 AM, said:

I think it kinda hard to see. The laser is clearly in the head but the launcher could also be CT or side torso with a position very close to the head.

As for knockdowns...I am not even certain that I want them. Sure its a singleplayer but from, I think it was MW4, I remember running a mech that was knocking down mechs left and right. Efficient sure but also boring.
Also remember that knockdowns can also work on you and with the enemy most likely outnumbering you, you might face more knockdowns then you might like.


Noticed sometime later it also has a belly button laser.
Time to install a large laser there.. (except 'sized hardpoints' might prevent that).
Posted Image

Though if I can't get a large laser in there, maybe I'll go for an AC/2 or MG.
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Either way they opened up can of something...

Anyway stupidity aside...
I'll have to add gravity and biome/creation tweaks to my list of things to modify as they only used one gravity, likely due to projectiles and helicopters being affected (the most logical reason).

MW5's beta turned demo is disappointing. Makes it hard get a head start on modding the game if the tools aren't released at the same time. But I guess I'll get a feel for how bad the game's weapons actually are.

On a personal note, the reason I haven't been updating my mod pages is I've developed something to help me flesh out weapon concepts by expediting the process, where I can put in some settings and have some preset math run its course to give me everything from projectile velocities to estimated accurate ranges of individual projectiles (without encompassing "recoil" at the moment, it also calculates velocity based on an intended extreme range and then calculates when the kinetic effect and damage of the projectile is lost [leaving only the explosive component of the AC shell] and when the shell is designed to auto destruct in accordance with the thrown-out but still reasonably followed Ares Convention in terms of munitions. (Currently the average AC shell self destructs around 2 kilometers, give or take. Velociies are effected in part by barrel length to achieve longer ranges and sacrificed in shorter barrels to achieve faster shell delivery in carbine-ish models. So far its pretty cool and plugging in known shell sizes, firing rates and shell counts give me everything from a breakdown of individual projectile weight (calculated first in kilograms and converted into pounds), cost per projectile, number of projectiles per rating, number of projectiles per ton, time to achieve rating, max possible reload time, modifier for 'leeway' which in turn gives the 'actual reload time', time to achieve double rating, total time for two ratings and reloads and left over time in a 10 second time slice, as well as convert-back-to-TT information, burst/auto/semi-auto info, notes, mount types [for sized hardpoints and locational restrictions (such as GM Whirlwind/5 for Marauder's dorsal mount at 120mm or 50mm depending on the novel [as such two variations there] and the arm mount of the Wolverine [at 60mm and 90mm depending on the novel, as such it also has two variations]. They can be mounted on any mech with an appropriate hardpoint in a similar location [so a forearm-external weapon can be mounted on any mech that can mount it, an ST gun on any ST, etc.], and quite a bit of other details. Even got a test RAC and a plan to keep UAC unique despite the fact that ACs can deliver double ratings within 10 seconds and all weapons can deliver a rated amount of damage within 5 seconds [and typically a 5 second cooling/reloading/recharging period depending on what it is]. Cross-class ammunition is working nicely on paper in terms of damages and the escalation of damage per shell by caliber is coming out better than I would have thought, as I learned a change to Rhinemetal's 130mm cannon produces a 50% increase in (or 150% of) damage from its 120mm cannon in real life, and the transitions from the common 80mm to 90mm for example produces exactly that difference in damage output per shell). Lower calibers can be pushed easier to produce higher volumes of damage while the highest calibers which produce the highest amount of damage per shell can fall short of their rating in collective damage as well as take longer to achieve it in some cases (for example the Defiance Mech Hunter on the Atlas produces a solid 1 shell per second with no cassette change/reload time at 5 damage per shell on an AC/20, but it's canonical heat issues combined with holding that trigger is gonna cause problems if you don't instead time and aim your shots given the plan to give weapons their own heat bars [which will replace the cooldown timer bar] and said weapons can malfunction when overused.

Still needs some tweaks and I'm doing modified versions for lasers, MGs, missiles, mech mortars, "Rifles" [they're used in periphery states and by civilians / low end pirates] and other 3025 available weapons. It's really helping to fill in missing details quite nicely and not doing the math on every individual item manually really helps a lot.

Even made the surprise edge-case of a 105mm "fully automatic cannon" AC/5 work out, despite not having planned for 105mm, and it worked pretty well in fact. It's technically extinct in reasonably short order of the MW5 timeline with the exception of Comstar, but a few mods and bam, new mechs/tanks and Comstar's in the mix, [plus AMA 10 suggests that PGI would like to try Comstar in a DLC 6 to 12 months down the line if the game pans out good]). So having edge cases in the mix are good overall. Pontiac's gonna be a beast of a low-caliber weapon, and should Yen Lo Wang get modded into MW5 then Allard's obtained 40mm Pontiac 100 will make it a very different beast from the CN9-AH's Luxor D-DX Heavy Cannon (technically "heavy" leans in the 120mm range, however for that one I'm leaning toward 150mm at a slower firing rate than the Crusher Super Heavy so that there'll be more than one 150mm ACs since Quikscell is everywhere meaning the ammo is everywhere but for some reason there aren't more 150mms, so bam. Centurions are pretty wide spread, now something more uses it.).

(I'm gonna reign it in before I go nuts, but basically ranges are a bit more realistic but in terms of lasers are affected by atmospheric conditions [storms will cut your range more than clear skies, vacuums giving you the best conditions for laser range/efficiency but expelling heat is hard] while ACs are more affected by gravity and velocity [with their kinetic energy between 25 and 50% of their damage potential] as well as the recoil of faster-firing heavier calibers causing AC shots to spread [so AC/20s can reach 2 kilometers easily enough but by the time they reach that distance the weapons fire will be so spread out you'll probably hit everything except what you intend to. Hetzer specifically is a wheeled vehicle with an AC/20 designed as a "artillery piece"... let the logic run through with that one for a minute, the terrible accurate range comes from its rapid '10 shot burst' from 150mm cannon, rocking that poor truck-chassis around and in turn flailing the end of the barrel [with the whole vehicle], causing what could be a wide-spread artillery salvo in the cheapest minimally viable way possible...)

So despite MW5's shortcomings, I'm excited for what I can do with it as I'm already fairly familiar with the limitations of the Unreal Engine. Now if it was on CryEngine I'd be less optimistic.

#216 MechaBattler

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 07:37 PM

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#217 Koniving

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 09:17 PM

so the ama 10 taught me something new. PGI made their own vehicle models. The model sharing deal was one sided, PGI shared its mechs/animations/etc (which the animations were ditched). And HBS shared...money, most likely.

Either way, PGI made its own vehicles.
And I'm really liking them (but what moron would write that on what I'm guessing PGI has decided is a gas tank on the back of a tank in such big text?)

Since I've decided MW5 doesn't have enough 3025 mechs/vehicles, been thinking I'll add some. But now that I know there are more vehicles than in HBS BT... I might not have to be in a terrible rush to do so.
-------------

Blackjack appears to be using pulse lasers, if that's true I really like the effect. Much better than MW4's effect (watch the MW4 intro, the "laser machine gun" is the pulse laser fire from the side).

#218 MechaBattler

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 08:44 AM

I don't know. So far all the lasers we've seen look pretty much the same. I like that it looks more like a stream of particles. Less like a solid beam of light. And the PPC looks a lot like a lightning bolt.

They did some good work on the vehicles. The details on that tank make it look much more used and lived in.

Also, cockpit view from Crab.

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Though I wonder if the distortion next to the Centurion is supposed to be an explosive wave or something.

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Mauler looks great with the buildings in the background.

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The Vindicator is one of those times where I feel like the model actually looks better than the concept art.

Just thought forum goers should get something else to look at. Since we still haven't gotten anything new from PGI.

#219 Nesutizale

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 03:05 PM

The image with the Mauler looks very nice indeed. Still even with using UE4 the game looks...strange. Not exactly dated but the art direction is off somehow.

Like a try to get photo realism but stopping somewhat before archiving it. For example in the Vindcator shot the car looks like a toy car and the mech is so nicely detailed.

Well I am pretty sure that during the normal game action you won't notice that much anyway as your attention would most likely be forcused on your target not the envoirment.

#220 Koniving

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 11:29 PM

View PostMechaBattler, on 19 October 2019 - 08:44 AM, said:


Though I wonder if the distortion next to the Centurion is supposed to be an explosive wave or something.

The distortion carries over pretty far, even over the leaves of the nearby tree and for some reason it distorts the support beams of the Crab's cockpit, implying it could potentially be inside your cockpit? Or just poorly encompassing more than it should.

Mauler is shot with a very low end graphical setting for some reason.
In fact all 3 shots are done in a very low end setting in terms of the trees..
Are they having LoD issues with them? Did they stupidly import MWO's trees?

They seem to have mech graphics up high, background graphics set to low.





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