160 replies to this topic

[Anjian]

gooddragon2, on 27 December 2017 - 04:39 PM, said:

I watched a video of a seal clubbing (or at least it was titled that):


They didn't use gauss rifles. Or maybe I didn't see them using gauss rifles. It was from over a year ago though. So are gauss rifles the new seal clubbing weapon? Why do players get clubbed so much? How does it usually go down? Any good videos of seal clubbing recently that you feel are more representative than the linked one? I heard you can gain MC through faction play?

Gauss Rifles were pretty much in since Day 1 of Faction Warfare.

gooddragon2, on 27 December 2017 - 04:39 PM, said:

I watched a video of a seal clubbing (or at least it was titled that):


They didn't use gauss rifles. Or maybe I didn't see them using gauss rifles. It was from over a year ago though. So are gauss rifles the new seal clubbing weapon? Why do players get clubbed so much? How does it usually go down? Any good videos of seal clubbing recently that you feel are more representative than the linked one? I heard you can gain MC through faction play?

Gauss Rifles were pretty much in since Day 1 of Faction Warfare.

[Trenchbird]

Did... Did you just double post in the same response?

Neat.

[Asym]

Bombast, on 27 December 2017 - 06:32 PM, said:

Clubbing is an intent. People intentionally do it this in FP, whether you like it or not. That doesn't mean everyone claiming to be clubbed is correct, but the nonstop 'get gudding' people parrot doesn't change the fact that there's a substantial portion of the community (In any gaming community, really) that intentionally queue up and drop just to beat up on people they know aren't able to handle whats going on.

Just don't play faction play and allow you self to be farmed: even if the game fails due to lack of population...... The hard right versus the easy wrong....

Entire teams of experienced players DO NOT PLAY FP...... (FP stands for "Farming Players")

That should say enough, in and of itself. Seal clubbing is an anti-social, sociopathic video game syndrome elite players created out of bordum and their fears of playing other elite players and clubbing appeases their intense desire for power and then they build entire teams of like players to self justify ill-rationale behaviors which knowingly drives new players out of MWO and causes teams to avoid this play style.....ergo, those who club and farm are not the role modelsl but, rather are the agents of this games population decline in many ways.... "Get GuD" does not mean lose all ethics and sportsmanship.... "Get GuD" isn't a pass for antisocial behavior even if they say "its' just a game for heavens sake".

[sceii]

Do you think it's intresting for unit to routinely kill disorganised people for 30 min, a bit timewasting.
It is much more intresting to play against someone who can give you a fight.
Best way to reduce number of games where you're clubbed is to take command and talk to your pugs, bad plan is always better then no plan. Even if pugs will listen to you 1 in 5 games, you will have a bit less onesided games.

[Zigmund Freud]

There's a difference between winning because you're better at FW, or ignoring omega and farming pugs at spawn for 5 more minutes. First one is fine, sadly premade groups also don't have a choice of competing other premades. But second one annoys the hell out of me. You are just wasting time of 12 people to farm some cbills and ruining their game.

[Dago Red]

Zigmund Freud, on 29 December 2017 - 02:17 AM, said:

There's a difference between winning because you're better at FW, or ignoring omega and farming pugs at spawn for 5 more minutes. First one is fine, sadly premade groups also don't have a choice of competing other premades. But second one annoys the hell out of me. You are just wasting time of 12 people to farm some cbills and ruining their game.

As a general rule I agree but usually when there's an event on well...... e i e i oh!

And even then if you get the same seals twice in a row cut em some damn slack the second time. Either end it quick via object or just order "weapons free" and turn it into a big brawl where both sides can get some points towards whatever the goal is.

Edited by Dago Red, 29 December 2017 - 07:00 AM.

[oldradagast]

Jon Gotham, on 27 December 2017 - 08:04 PM, said:

And the "get gudding" is simply stop being a super solo and/or stubborn. Join a unit, create a group and speak! Seals club back often....beat a ghost bear ten man the other day, me and a couple of others started calling and we ended up beating them.

Right. Based on that logic, getting 8 of your friends together and "speaking" would make you all comparable in ability to a major league baseball team.

FP is idiotic and has been so since the developers decided to mix people together regardless of skill level or group size. Any game that is serious about providing a fun experience does not do crud like that. Oh, sure - games that are selling "pay to win" will do it intentionally since there's nothing like being smashed constantly straight out of the gate by vastly superior foes you shouldn't even be seeing to encourage people to either quit or pay money. But REAL games - games with a shred of integrity and intelligence - don't do that for obvious reasons.

I get such a laugh out of watching people try to defend this idiocy when they are really looking to justify seal-clubbing. Imagine professional sporting events where one team was full of pros and the other was made half of people who "played a bit during college" and the other half from people randomly picked from the stands. It would be boring, stupid, and one-sided. Nobody - aside from seal-clubbers - would consider it "fun," and no league that did such nonsense would stay in business. But we're to pretend it's OK in video games. Whatever.

[MischiefSC]

If you think any unit in FW is anything like a professional sports team you're so delusional I'm not sure what to tell you.

It's identical to any pug team except they're on TS and it's usually the same couple of people calling the drop.

That's it.

If you dropped in a pug match and one or two guys called it, and then by chance you all dropped together like for 6 more matches in a row you'd be like 99% of FW teams - high performing teams.

That's where all the scorn comes from. Any 6+man team in group queue has put more effort into coordinating their drop deck if only to fit tonnage.

Bring a decent deck.

A range deck, a brawl deck and a mid-range deck if you're Clans. Some hot and cold examples ot put in both. About 8 mechs ideally. Not everyone in most units has that ready but just as general guidelines.

Listen to the dropcaller. Don't yammer in the middle of a match. Just listen to the calls, go where you're told and shoot who you're told. More or less.

Don't play like an idiot. Don't linger in the back, twist when someone shoots you, losing with mechs still in the bay is a waste and sharing armor is a thing.

Everyone in this game has the same access to the same stuff. Nobody in FW is a comp team. A couple of us, on a good night and the right map/mode could make a comp team actually have to put real effort into beating us but that's it. There's no practices, there's no training.

Bring a good deck.

Listen to the DC.

Don't play like an idiot.

What makes me so depressed about the MWO community is that those three things are considered just like being a professional sports team.

To have people who are so oblivious to the realities of that then make wild and inaccurate assumptions about what the players who went through the crushing 10 years of training uber pro complex regimen of... logging into Teamspeak.... actually think or are motivated by is just as absurd.

Good deck.

Listen.

Don't be dumb.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to return to my part time job as a member of a pro baseball team. Apparently all I need to do to play like Ty Cobb is have a decent glove, bat and shoes, listen to what the coach says and not be a complete idiot.

[Magnus Santini]

Lack of map familiarity is a big problem. You can see the enemies are lost in the terrain, and several wandered in the base alone, whereas the clan team is moving together to cover and attack expected enemy positions. Also, I guess under "coordinated decks," you can see that the clan team knew to bring big mechs like Kodiaks in the first wave, and the enemy had random mechs like a Blackjack.

[Jackal Noble]

This has to be someone's alt and they are hard trolling.
Whatever happened to gooddragon1 I wonder?

[Trenchbird]

Magnus Santini, on 29 December 2017 - 10:59 AM, said:

Lack of map familiarity is a big problem. You can see the enemies are lost in the terrain, and several wandered in the base alone, whereas the clan team is moving together to cover and attack expected enemy positions. Also, I guess under "coordinated decks," you can see that the clan team knew to bring big mechs like Kodiaks in the first wave, and the enemy had random mechs like a Blackjack.

Honestly, I always figured it was better to bring your lighter forces out early on, or a mix of low-and-high weights, so that the Clan team would lose the assault wave early and get broken down against the more consistently heavy IS forces.

(I never played CW much, however. Most of my matches I remember ended in IS victories, however.)

[Dago Red]

Catten Hart, on 29 December 2017 - 11:14 AM, said:

Honestly, I always figured it was better to bring your lighter forces out early on, or a mix of low-and-high weights, so that the Clan team would lose the assault wave early and get broken down against the more consistently heavy IS forces.

(I never played CW much, however. Most of my matches I remember ended in IS victories, however.)

That would not be the conventional strategy no.

But then I always bring an Urbie first wave to strike fear into the enemy. Usually try to end on a fast heavy to add some backbone to the final wave while not radically slowing everyone else down.

Most drop callers want you to go heaviest first then work your way down.

[oldradagast]

MischiefSC, on 29 December 2017 - 07:55 AM, said:

If you think any unit in FW is anything like a professional sports team you're so delusional I'm not sure what to tell you.

It's identical to any pug team except they're on TS and it's usually the same couple of people calling the drop.

Right, because there's no skill gap, no difference in practice, no coordination in mech builds, or any of that when a team drops together. Sure... it's just a bunch of random people in LRM Atlases that win "because they communicated." We get that you're looking for an excuse to justify the seal-clubbing, but nobody is buying it. Your claim is just as absurd as saying somebody can "buy the same type of ball used in the NFL and call the same plays," so they may as well be an NFL player.

Seriously, we can't go a week in this forum without posts on stupid players and stupid builds in the PUG queue, but now we're going to pretend that all those problems disappear if people just "communicated?" Right... Oh, and we're also to believe that MWO teams are winning with the same stupid builds, as if there is no meta? Again, come on...

Look, we all know a stupid format when we see one, and any format that has no skill-based match-making is an idiotic one. There is NO professional sport, be it physical or mental, where they regularly pit highly skilled groups or individuals against random "noobs" and "pugs," that is taken seriously. But, for some idiotic reason, what would be considered laughably unbalanced and boring games everywhere else in the sporting world is acceptable in video games, and it's BS.

Edited by oldradagast, 29 December 2017 - 11:27 AM.

[Lolkittens]

Have you considered that communication tends to lead to the three previous things? Considering I've seen pugs say they're bring two anni's with urbies and then the rest of the team switches to similar loadouts is something that happens.

Otherwise the only thing I'm seeing here is radagast purposefully misreading opposing posts to strawman.

[Kin3ticX]

Wow people get really worked up over "seal clubbing". Thats like 80-90% of everything that ever happened in Community warfare since it came out. This community was too antisocial and self defeating to organize up. It should have been easy to stand out considering its a mode filled with PvE skill level targets to shoot at. Sure PGI didn't exactly hit a home run either (well they did a bad job), but they probably also saw players not climbing the incredibly easy CW learning curve. Even the tiniest improvements would make even so-so players and units into seal clubbers as well, but alas so few could do it.

Here we are 3 years later and now PGI pretends CW doesn't even exist at Mechcon. Let it die. The time to have played was like back in 2015.

[Deathlike]

oldradagast, on 29 December 2017 - 11:23 AM, said:

Right, because there's no skill gap, no difference in practice, no coordination in mech builds, or any of that when a team drops together. Sure... it's just a bunch of random people in LRM Atlases that win "because they communicated." We get that you're looking for an excuse to justify the seal-clubbing, but nobody is buying it. Your claim is just as absurd as saying somebody can "buy the same type of ball used in the NFL and call the same plays," so they may as well be an NFL player.

Well, if you don't want to be seal clubbed, you have to actually work to prevent it (and doesn't actually mean crying about it - it's about getting even, not just getting good).

It's not like you need that much training, but you actually have to do what you're told instead of trying to do your own thing. Most players are not exceptional enough to do their own thing.

Quote

Seriously, we can't go a week in this forum without posts on stupid players and stupid builds in the PUG queue, but now we're going to pretend that all those problems disappear if people just "communicated?" Right... Oh, and we're also to believe that MWO teams are winning with the same stupid builds, as if there is no meta? Again, come on...

Communication is everything. Refusing to communicate (usually listening) is actually more detrimental than anything. Even a crappy plan of NASCARing works better when people actually go with the plan, instead of doing it themselves to their own demise.

Quote

Look, we all know a stupid format when we see one, and any format that has no skill-based match-making is an idiotic one. There is NO professional sport, be it physical or mental, where they regularly pit highly skilled groups or individuals against random "noobs" and "pugs," that is taken seriously. But, for some idiotic reason, what would be considered laughably unbalanced and boring games everywhere else in the sporting world is acceptable in video games, and it's BS.

Skill based matchmaking loosely works in the public queues, and you're expecting it to work in CW/FP? Seriously?

I'd rather play with people that stick to the plan, instead of sticking a finger in their ear. Success in anything requires people to work together, even if it is for a losing cause. People who rely on the MM for already imbalanced matchups are not really understanding the goal of working together. Even a small group of 4 people (whether it is EmP or just a group of friends) is going to be more effective than 6 to 8 people that want to do their own random thing. You don't have the be EmP-level to succeed - all you need to do is to actually want to work together. That starts with communication.

Edited by Deathlike, 29 December 2017 - 01:55 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Kin3ticX, on 29 December 2017 - 01:26 PM, said:

Wow people get really worked up over "seal clubbing". Thats like 80-90% of everything that ever happened in Community warfare since it came out. This community was too antisocial and self defeating to organize up. It should have been easy to stand out considering its a mode filled with PvE skill level targets to shoot at. Sure PGI didn't exactly hit a home run either (well they did a bad job), but they probably also saw players not climbing the incredibly easy CW learning curve. Even the tiniest improvements would make even so-so players and units into seal clubbers as well, but alas so few could do it.

Here we are 3 years later and now PGI pretends CW doesn't even exist at Mechcon. Let it die. The time to have played was like back in 2015.

I really haven't seen another community that complains this much about teamwork being OP while doing everything in their power to avoid any form of social behavior that isn't just forming a defeatist circle jerk.

[Brain Cancer]

The difference is units filter out the trash players, and PUGs cannot.

As we all know from QP, it doesn't take much trash in your team to result in an overwhelming defeat. Generally, if your opponent kills your first wave without losses, you're the target practice.

Events like the current one compound things, as the one reason the PUG is there vanishes when it becomes obvious they're going to be farmed all the way back to their spawn points. This results in PUGs kamikazing/ejecting out of the match, making it even more of a disaster for the rest. In extreme cases, the entire PUG may just simply eject repeatedly to stop what is a meaningless match for their players from lasting any longer than the minimum, at which point, the stompers have Dropship Pilot as their new opponent, and he's a pretty good shot.

[Khobai]

Quote

Best way to reduce number of games where you're clubbed is to take command and talk to your pugs, bad plan is always better then no plan. Even if pugs will listen to you 1 in 5 games, you will have a bit less onesided games.

unfortunately thats not how it works

because organized groups can filter out bad players by only inviting good players. you dont have that option with pugs, youre stuck with whoever you get: like spudicus and potatius maximus. no amount of "coaching" is going to make them good.

all your pugs could listen to you and youll still get sealclubbed because theyre not as good of players.

the only solution here is separate buckets. pugs are not on the same level as organized groups and should not be forced to fight them (except in the case where neither pugs or premades can find a match and it opens a release valve because its better than a ghost drop).

Quote

Thats like 80-90% of everything that ever happened in Community warfare since it came out.

because now entire teams are mass ejecting to avoid playing lol.

it may be something thats always gone on, but pugs are finally sick enough of it to protest against it with mass suicide.

its funny as hell. I hope they keep doing it.

#drinkthekoolaiditsreallygood

Edited by Khobai, 29 December 2017 - 02:17 PM.

[MischiefSC]

oldradagast, on 29 December 2017 - 11:23 AM, said:

Right, because there's no skill gap, no difference in practice, no coordination in mech builds, or any of that when a team drops together. Sure... it's just a bunch of random people in LRM Atlases that win "because they communicated." We get that you're looking for an excuse to justify the seal-clubbing, but nobody is buying it. Your claim is just as absurd as saying somebody can "buy the same type of ball used in the NFL and call the same plays," so they may as well be an NFL player.

Seriously, we can't go a week in this forum without posts on stupid players and stupid builds in the PUG queue, but now we're going to pretend that all those problems disappear if people just "communicated?" Right... Oh, and we're also to believe that MWO teams are winning with the same stupid builds, as if there is no meta? Again, come on...

Look, we all know a stupid format when we see one, and any format that has no skill-based match-making is an idiotic one. There is NO professional sport, be it physical or mental, where they regularly pit highly skilled groups or individuals against random "noobs" and "pugs," that is taken seriously. But, for some idiotic reason, what would be considered laughably unbalanced and boring games everywhere else in the sporting world is acceptable in video games, and it's BS.

A bunch of people in LRM atlases will always lose because they are idiots.

I club seals in QP all the time. Most matches - because my team is almost all people who brought good builds, said a few things in VOIP or chat and made decent choices so we destroy the other team 12-1 or 12-0.

I win 2 out of 3 QP matches literally just because I use the in game voip and don't bring **** mechs. I'm not some top tier uber player. I don't carry my whole team every match. I do however try to make good suggestions, get my team moving and in a good direction and help call targets.

In QP.

FW isn't about matchmaking it's about factions fighting. If tech was more balanced you'd see what little population we have being more balanced as well. The fact that people bring stupid mechs, refuse to coordinate and make stupid choices isn't some unique thing to FW. Group and QP are full of it. The only difference, at all, is respawns so it's more obvious. If you had a pug only FW it would play exactly the same. One or two smart players on one side would help their team coordinate, bring a passable deck and make good choices and wave 2 they're farming the other side out of the dropships.

Your assumptions about what people who play FW in a group want, think or even act like makes you sound like an idiot. You know one of the core facets of behavioral psychology is projection - that people assume that others are doing what they themselves would do in that situation. That some people have this fetish around 'farming' and 'baby seals' is pretty creepy to the rest of us. We've said, a million times, what we want and why we play. Then people who just straight up refuse to bring good decks, communicate and make good choices show up and say no! You just want to (insert X insane antisocial behavior here)!

At this point you're flat out bald faced lying. You're lying about the actions, the intent, the behaviors and the feelings of a couple hundred people in order to insult, belittle and dehumanize them. That's a pretty **** thing to do. Stop it. It's not that you're ignorant of it or don't understand it or haven't been advised of it. We've all done it a million times. It's that for whatever messed up personal emotional reasons you've got you seem to need to dehumanize everyone who just wants to group up and play the game and likes to win matches instead of losing. You really need to look at that.

And quit lying. If you can actually legitimately say you know what I'm thinking and feeling and my intentions better than I do you'll need to present the science behind this magical mind-reading accomplishment. Otherwise you need to fess up to projecting and being a liar.