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Mech Selection Question From Newbie


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#81 Roughneck45

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 04:48 PM

View PostDragonporn, on 07 February 2018 - 02:33 PM, said:

1. Cougar vs. Kit Fox

Similar play styles. Cougar leaning more towards offense, Kit Fox towards support. Both are slower than most lights so stay with the group and work the flanks.

View PostDragonporn, on 07 February 2018 - 02:33 PM, said:

2. Mad Dog vs. Timberwolf

Both are pretty frail with a lot of firepower but the Timberwolf is larger with more diverse hard points and builds. The Mad Dog will generally be missile based but can pack a punch.

View PostDragonporn, on 07 February 2018 - 02:33 PM, said:

3. Supernova vs. Direwolf (why Supernova is so cheap? DWF costs more even with huge discount.)

Supernovas are mostly laser or missile boats, Direwolves can do whatever you want, most people run a lot of ballistics on them. Supernova is a bit quicker with better hit boxes but both have low mounted hard points and similar play styles.

View PostDragonporn, on 07 February 2018 - 02:33 PM, said:


XL 280 weighs the same as a 275 so stick it in there if you can afford it.

View PostDragonporn, on 07 February 2018 - 02:33 PM, said:

One question though, is there any sense running ECM in disrupt mode while in stealth? Isn't counter more useful?

If you want to disrupt their missiles locks or radar, but if you are trying to be sneaky it is better to have it on counter so they aren't alerted to your presence.

Edited by Roughneck45, 07 February 2018 - 04:51 PM.


#82 Dragonporn

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 07:24 PM

Thanks for the posts.
1. Visually I like Cougar way more. Speed might be a problem, but with enough firepower, maybe I can compensate. In any case, I got some escort playstyle experience, might just work out. Besides, x3 AMS + ECM definitely sounds like an overkill...
2. I like Timby way more and I know it is versatile, but main reason why I'm hesitant to pick it, because I slowly crawl to T2, where deploying in this thing would be the same as painting big fat target mark all over me. Mad Dog isn't so "attractive", as far as I can tell, but it looks like glorified medium tbh...
3. Supernova definitely looks more sexy to me, and I don't mind boating missiles with it, especially if it's effective enough. Missing out on good price cut with DWF feels like a waste though...

On slow Assaults, I have King Crab which runs at ~55. Got x2 AC/20 and 1 ER PPC. It can be brutal pain on some maps, but when I get in close quarters, like tunnels, it's a beast. Several times I killed 3+ Heavy/Assault mechs consequently by shooting off their legs, which is very quick & easy with those cannons, however, my main problem are side torsos. No matter how hard I try to shield with arms and twist, I still get loads of damage in one side or the other, losing one or both weapons instantly, although I have ~106 on either side. Also the fact that most people aren't stupid and know where to shoot, not like it's hard to hit this freaking giant where you want to, which adds to my quick demise... Any pointers on how to avoid it if possible?

View PostRoughneck45, on 07 February 2018 - 04:48 PM, said:

XL 280 weighs the same as a 275 so stick it in there if you can afford it.

This engine is leftover from Bushie I bought not so long ago. Technically I can afford better one, but right now it would be unnecessary expenses, though this Raven runs at 130+ with skill tree and its sufficient for now I suppose. Appreciate the tip though.

Edited by Dragonporn, 07 February 2018 - 07:25 PM.


#83 Horseman

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 10:50 PM

View PostDragonporn, on 07 February 2018 - 02:33 PM, said:

One question though, is there any sense running ECM in disrupt mode while in stealth? Isn't counter more useful?
You can't. Switching to counter mode will drop stealth immediately.


View PostRoughneck45, on 07 February 2018 - 04:48 PM, said:

If you want to disrupt their missiles locks or radar, but if you are trying to be sneaky it is better to have it on counter so they aren't alerted to your presence.
That's completely wrong. Disrupt is the mode that hides you - and friendlies near you - from enemy sensors. Counter does not do it, only serving to counteract nearby enemy ecm.

Edited by Horseman, 07 February 2018 - 10:58 PM.


#84 Roughneck45

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 12:13 PM

View PostHorseman, on 07 February 2018 - 10:50 PM, said:

You can't. Switching to counter mode will drop stealth immediately.


That's completely wrong. Disrupt is the mode that hides you - and friendlies near you - from enemy sensors. Counter does not do it, only serving to counteract nearby enemy ecm.

I was unaware switching to counter shut stealth off.

I should have been more specific in my original response. Having it in disrupt will hide you from sensor but if you are trying to get close for sneaky butt shots it will only alert the enemy that there is ECM near by, thus prompting them to turn around and see you. Flipping it to counter before you close for the kill is the way to go, when you know you have not been spotted yet and have to close the distance.

Edited by Roughneck45, 09 February 2018 - 01:03 PM.


#85 Dragonporn

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 02:54 PM

After some thinking decided to pick Timby-A, because it looks awesome, is pretty flexible with builds and rather iconic mech as far as I know, plus hefty discount. Built with x4 CERMLs and x2CUACs, doing alright but got in situations few times when you brawling 1on1, getting real hot and opponent shuts down, and exactly the moment I can pop his red torso with UACs, they both jam... Other than that, it feels great. I don't have these big "ears",so it helps a bit with hitboxes and as some sort of disguise.

Now really want Supernova and Cougar.

#86 Dragonporn

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 03:13 PM

Finally got my hands on SNV and need couple of tips about my builds. That's my SNV-A. Absolutely love this thing, it's beautiful, a dream for any LRM boater alive. So, I can't decide what is better to shove in the Center. Currently running c-BAP, but I'm thinking on swapping it with laser-AMS. Both are interesting options. Since I can control heat pretty well with this build, l-AMS won't be too hard on me, and Probe also have lots of good benefits. What would you pick and why?

And a question about my KGC-000. In particular, does RAC benefit from TC crit chance? If it doesn't, and generally TCII isn't great for this build, I would easily swap AMS ammo and TCII for extra heatsink for better sustain fire from both PPC and RACs. Whaddya think?

#87 Horseman

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 11:02 PM

View PostDragonporn, on 01 March 2018 - 03:13 PM, said:

Finally got my hands on SNV and need couple of tips about my builds. That's my SNV-A. Absolutely love this thing, it's beautiful, a dream for any LRM boater alive. So, I can't decide what is better to shove in the Center. Currently running c-BAP, but I'm thinking on swapping it with laser-AMS. Both are interesting options. Since I can control heat pretty well with this build, l-AMS won't be too hard on me, and Probe also have lots of good benefits. What would you pick and why?
BAP is mandatory. It protects your locks from being jammed by a single ECM light.
You also should replace one of the ERSLs with a TAG.

Quote

And a question about my KGC-000. In particular, does RAC benefit from TC crit chance? If it doesn't, and generally TCII isn't great for this build, I would easily swap AMS ammo and TCII for extra heatsink for better sustain fire from both PPC and RACs. Whaddya think?
Having run several KGCs for a longer while now... skip RACs. 4xUAC/5, 2xUAC/10 or 2xAC20 are better primary weapons for a ballistic KGC build.

#88 Koniving

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 07:42 AM

If you ~MUST~ use RACs, you should supplement them. Quad LMGs do some absolute wonders when paired with RAC/5s.

The RAC PPC combination doesn't work well, simple AC/5s would far better compliment them. Too many things can go wrong between the two conflicting mechanics (stare-at-lead slightly and a different level of lead.. as opposed to PPCs + AC/5s which have a similar lead time for any meaningful range).

This is just goofing around with the mech editor for the lols, but I was able to make this twin RAC/5, quad LMG, AMS, Twin Light PPC King Crab with a base speed of 57.5 kph and a targeting computer IV.

Would hate to physically be in it though, you ever seen a fast King Crab's "run"? It'd probably snap your neck in real life with all the whiplash

#89 Dragonporn

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 11:54 AM

Thanks for the tip on Probe, I'll stick with it. On TAG however, I tried it already and it doesn't seem as effective because energy hardpoint is pretty low, and since SNV isn't exactly mobile, I can't make better use of it. On my MAD-5D, I have TAG up on the right side torso, which allows me to stay in cover, shoot missiles and re-position while keeping enemy tagged/locked. Plus 5 extra damage proved a bit more efficient so far whenever I'm forced go face to face. In either case, I'll have to test more, see how it goes, might swap it eventually.

Now with KGC, it's rather tricky topic. This mech is by no means easy to handle, and I tried real hard for the long time to make it work with dual AC/20, but it just doesn't work for me. To make it work, you need to be extremely accurate where you put each rounds, and be able to reliably hit every fast moving target on the field in vulnerable spots, which doesn't seem realistic with not-so-good range, very slow projectile travel speed (even skilled up) and rather brutal bullet drop. On top of it, even though I've been shooting them one by one, heat spike if each shot is quite significant, and forces me to make long pauses. The only situations I could make it work are whenever I went into closed quarters intentionally where enemy cannot maneuver, places like Crimson Strait tunnel or lower area of HPG Manifold. There I was able to destroy enemy mechs of pretty much any tonnage and build by shooting off their legs with AC/20 real quick. In other scenarios, I was just sitting duck wasting ammo.

I didn't try UACs on my KGC, but I run very successful dual UAC/10 build on my Timby. Problem I see with KGC (or pretty much any Assault) is that when you commit to push, you go all-in, there's little chance and opportunity to pull back and shuffle, and when you expose yourself, you rely mostly on your own armor, and need to put as much hurt on your enemy as you can and as reliably as you can. So, situation when you commit for the face-off and then your UACs jam, well... doesn't seem fancy, despite huge UAC damage potential. It's a non-issue with my Timby, because it is generally more mobile, so I can safely disengage, shuffle or pull back most of the times for these weapons to un-jam and then go back in the fight. With KGC I don't think I can have such opportunities.

Now, my time with x2 RAC/5s and x2 PPCs was the most successful of all other builds I tried, and that's why:
In early stages of the match, dual PPCs allow me to stay in range, deal good chunk of damage to enemy and stay in cover (thanks to very comfortable energy hardpoints), spread dmg better since at range we get less damage in general and twist helps more since many projectile weapons have travel time. In the midfight when I have to push and go face to face, RACs proved solid because general DPS is very good, and another more important thing: I always try to aim at either side torso near cabin or to the head if center is more damaged. This allows me to effectively blind opponent and take it out of combat. It can only try to twist and retreat, it cannot reliably shoot back and if it takes wrong turn, they eat hardcore damage in the backside, which equals lost component or death. Leading targets with RACs is pretty easy, and this particular setup I have allows me to sustain fire with both RACs from minimal heat level up to ~99% to the point when both RACs are about to jam, so it gives me very clear indication when I need to stop firing and try to shield/pull back to cool off. Plus it works better against pesky lights. From several situations I experienced, f.e. I can ideally lead Urbie which makes circle around me at close range by turning legs-torso and keeping full fire onto it. Best part is again, it is blinded by fire and can't reliably fight back or see well where its going. Several times I had luck killing off some lights making dive inside our groups by shooting off legs or either back side, because again, leading target is very easy with RACs.

There's another thing however, immersive one: firing both RACs at the enemy from giant mech feels just incredible... That's just my personal experience I laid out, so whenever I'm wrong, please, correct me.

Although this ^ suggestion about adding LMGs sounds sexy, thank you, and if I figure out where to shove them (in terms of weight distribution) I'll definitely try that out. But going back to the original question: how much my build with RACs and PPCs benefit from TC at all? I know about weapon projectile speed, and it's nice, but more interested in crit chance for RAC.

#90 Dragonporn

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 09:28 PM

Straight to business:
Want opinions on Dragon-5N vs. Cataphract-4X for ballistics build (AC/2 or /5) with some lasers. I know that I can outfit right Dragon arm with 3 AC/2s with couple of lasers in side and left arm, while Cata can get 2 in left and right arm, total of 4, with large laser or something.

By looks I find CTF way more sexy and cockpit seems more comfortable than one in DRG. Both of them are tough, and people say that Dragon is lots of fun, I'd like to know why? Also would like to know why anyone would shove XL engine in either of these mechs, since it can be killed by taking out single side torso, no?... There are lots of builds I've seen suggesting XL for them. What engines would you recommend?

On the side note, do you think this could work: NVA-PRIME?

Also I heard that Uziel is crap, is it really? If not, could you share some thoughts on builds?

P.S. In case someone is curious, TC has no effect on RAC crit, so it's pointless...

Edited by Dragonporn, 13 March 2018 - 09:31 PM.


#91 Ruccus

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 12:40 AM

I like the Cataphract over the Dragon, though they're kind of on the opposite ends of the heavy mech spectrum. The Cataphract is a plodding heavy mech that plays closer to an assault while the Dragon is a nimble heavy that plays closer to a medium.

The Cataphract has a very useful 10 ton weight advantage if you're talking about running ballistic weapons, and while it's got the front profile of a barn door it has huge armour quirks (+22 CT, +15 RT/LT/RL/LL, +11 RA/LA) that give it the armour of an assault mech when using the armour skill nodes. I like the CTF-0XP and CTF-3D more than the CTF-4X though (I own a CTF-3D, CTF-0XP, and CTF-3L).

Don't run an XL on a Cataphract (make them go through as much of your armour as you can) but an argument can be made for running the Dragon with a big XL due to its agility and prominent CT (it's still a high risk venture though).

As for the Nova build you linked, if you want to run flamers search youtube for TheB33f's 'Flamer Nova' videos. I'm not a fan of flamers, and usually link my third mouse button to a weapon I can use to kill a flamer mech without worrying about shutting down. With regards to the rest of the weaponry I personally think LMGs don't pair well with SPLs due to their lack of range so I'd tweak it to something like this NVA-PRIME build. Drill holes with the HMLs, then fill with ample LMG rounds. Only fire one arm at a time though.

While there are plenty of people that say the Uziel is crap, personally I don't think it's that bad - it would be more accurate to say in the average player's hands it's a mediocre mech. I only own the UZL-2S which I bought because my 'comfort loadout' (a loadout that I can drop into any mech with the right hardpoints and feel confident) is the AC20/medium laser build which the 2S can run. I don't feel I do poorly in it (my stats say 13 wins, 13 losses, average of 270 damage per match) but it wouldn't be near my top choice of mech to drop in if I absolutely had to put up good numbers in a game. The UZL-6P is generally considered the best of the Uziel variants because it's a laser boat.

#92 Dragonporn

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 03:04 PM

Thank you very much for the input. I'd go CTF in that case, sounds like exactly what I'm looking for in the mech.

On Nova, this build looks great. I'm not big on flamers, just shoved them to fill up the tonnage, but in build you suggested, I'm a bit concerned about the heat. Do you think removing some HMLs or all LMGs and replacing that with heatsinks instead would be better idea?...

Thanks for Uziel-2S suggestion, it sounds very interesting and fun to play.

#93 Ruccus

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 07:00 PM

View PostDragonporn, on 14 March 2018 - 03:04 PM, said:

Thank you very much for the input. I'd go CTF in that case, sounds like exactly what I'm looking for in the mech.

On Nova, this build looks great. I'm not big on flamers, just shoved them to fill up the tonnage, but in build you suggested, I'm a bit concerned about the heat. Do you think removing some HMLs or all LMGs and replacing that with heatsinks instead would be better idea?...

Thanks for Uziel-2S suggestion, it sounds very interesting and fun to play.


The Nova build is hot, but it's one of those builds that's designed to heat up; that's why there's so much LMG ammo.

I'd suggest linking one arm and the LMGs to one button, the other arm (with or without the LMGs) to a second button, and just the LMGs to a third button. Fire one arm and keep the LMGs going, then check heat to see if firing the second arm is appropriate. Fire just the LMGs when you're hot. With 80 damage worth of lasers and LMGs to crit structure the build should be able to open up the side torso of most heavy or lighter mechs reasonably quickly. You're trying to strip the side of the enemy mech that has its main weaponry, then finish it off when they're not as dangerous. You're not trying to drill straight through the CT because you only have 80 damage before you're waiting for a long cooldown on one of your arms and relying just on the LMGs for damage (so if you didn't open up the side torso after the 80 damage, run away).

For the Uziel, while I bought it because it could fit an AC20+3ML build, I think half or more of my games were with a Heavy PPC build (as an alternate build you can switch the 280LFE for a 255LFE and two heatsinks, or alternate #2 is a 255LFE, AMS with a ton of ammo, and a third JJ). Works fine; just rely on the HPPC until things get close and use the MLs and LMGs for mechs underrunning the HPPC's minimum range. You can swap the RL10 for another jump jet if you want more jumpsniping ability.

#94 Throe

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 04:00 PM

I'm frankly surprised no one has mentioned Summoners. They've got almost as much build variety as the Timber Wolf, but their mobility is even better than some Medium 'Mechs. They've also got a stock 5 jump jets to keep you mobile in the vertical sector, making many of the game's short vertical ridgelines into viable avenues of approach/escape rather than obstacles.

If you're new, you're going to want to bring jump jets on most of your builds anyway, mostly for the reason stated above. The Timber Wolf can do it, but it suffers significant mobility penalties in so doing, which detract from it's already sluggish movement, especially when compared to the Summoner.

After you've gained significant map familiarity, then you can buy a 'Mech with no jump jets and excel.

Edited by Throe, 15 March 2018 - 04:03 PM.


#95 Horseman

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 10:59 PM

Summoners are rather starved for hardpoints, even if you frankenpod.

#96 Zergling

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 12:26 AM

View PostDragonporn, on 13 March 2018 - 09:28 PM, said:

Also I heard that Uziel is crap, is it really? If not, could you share some thoughts on builds?


I played the Uziel 2S a fair bit 2 months ago and it is freaking terrible; I'd rather play a Vindicator.

The only Uziel that is even remotely worth playing is the 6P because it has 6 energy hardpoints.

#97 The Basilisk

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 12:29 AM

View PostHorseman, on 15 March 2018 - 10:59 PM, said:

Summoners are rather starved for hardpoints, even if you frankenpod.


Duno....you can do a lot of oddball configs like SRM jumper or HLLaser boat or PPC Jumpsniper.
And in those niche builds it performs oddly good but if you say "the Summoner isn't exactly a general purpose mech", well yea.

#98 Dragonporn

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 01:32 AM

Summoner is out of my scope because it is knee-joint.

I guess I'll hold on Uziel for now, but I really need Clan Light to fill first phase of my collection, and I have no idea which one to pick:
Kit Fox, Adder or Cougar. Visually I like Cougar the most, but since it's slow, well... slow for Light feels like suicide, but on top of it, I spent helluva lot of time looking for builds and trying to make something myself. Nothing interesting or reliable coming up. UAC/20 or Gauss versions stand out, but doesn't look so efficient. Also SRM6 + some lasers looks ok, but I have no idea how to fight in close and not die immediately with it's speed. What would you suggest?

#99 Roughneck45

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 07:48 AM

View PostDragonporn, on 16 March 2018 - 01:32 AM, said:

What would you suggest?


My favorite builds for those:

Stock Adder. No joke. Its the smallest platform you can effectively run two PPC's on. My favorite light, by far.

The other two I run 5 MPLs on, You need the Hero Omnipods to do it on the Kit Fox though.

#100 Zergling

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 03:54 PM

View PostRoughneck45, on 16 March 2018 - 07:48 AM, said:

Stock Adder. No joke. Its the smallest platform you can effectively run two PPC's on. My favorite light, by far.


I'd drop the TarComp for more heatsinks though, and change the torso armor to be more front heavy.

Like this

Edited by Zergling, 16 March 2018 - 03:56 PM.






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