250 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

Mystere, on 30 December 2017 - 06:54 AM, said:

The point I have been trying to make, and which you do not seem to be picking up on, is that you just can't put a matchmaker in a vacuum.

Besides, a "matchmaker" is not a the solution. A troop deployment system, as part of a larger campaign system, is.

Now do you get it?

And you can't start with that? That's far far far from missing features. For all i know, that would have been something a lot more complicated like PVE.

[Mystere]

The6thMessenger, on 30 December 2017 - 06:50 AM, said:

... solo queue FP. Didn't we were suggesting that there's two FP queues? Solo and group FP queues.

Can people please read posts in the proper context before forming a response? FML

So "borrow" a random person from the solo CW queue who probably does not want to drop with the groups? Same difference!

[The6thMessenger]

Mystere, on 30 December 2017 - 06:57 AM, said:

So "borrow" a random person from the solo CW queue who probably does not want to drop with the groups? Same difference!

Not really. One's interested with the actual gamemode, he'll be just put in a different environment to make way for the group queue.

This does not guarantee that EVERY pug would be in pug-environment, but at least most of them should be. Surely better than having pug teams versus experienced premade teams with roflstomps in their wake.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 30 December 2017 - 07:20 AM.

[N0MAD]

justcallme A S H, on 30 December 2017 - 06:41 AM, said:

. Hell go and look at MercStar's youtube channel where every few days they are posting videos of team v team.

I actually did that went and checked out the MS youtube videos.
Most were 20-30 minute videos of them playing teams or part teams several were posted saying MS Vs such and such when such was a 4 man in with pugs. Overall i think there were 30 or so vs other teams or part teams over a whole month period, not alot of teams played over a month period from videos posted.
The interesting thing was the videos that were of several hours duration+ playing FP, skiping thru those i noticed most of their games were actually against pugs, go look at those longer videos and tell me they play mostly against other large team, go on..
All i saw there was selected videos that suit them not an overall picture of their games.

Bud Crue, on 30 December 2017 - 06:51 AM, said:

Some of you insisting that a team based mode, based on merc units and house units (however poorly implemented) fighting each other should not be about those units, but rather be about "me" and only "me" playing individually, is beyond short sighted ridiculousness; its a recipe for eliminating the mode entirely.

You a very wrong here, in fact we are saying that it should be all about teams being able to play teams, we are saying that they should have their own Q so they can play teams ALL THE TIME, just seems they are saying no they dont want that.
Who here doesnt want the teams to have a team Q?,,, anyone?

Edited by N0MAD, 30 December 2017 - 07:12 AM.

[Mystere]

The6thMessenger, on 30 December 2017 - 04:11 AM, said:

We can't change every single person's thinking ...

But we must try because that is the only way progress can be achieved ... or we let them die by the wayside. <shrugs>

TWIAFU, on 30 December 2017 - 04:13 AM, said:

It is very simple MM.

12man vs 12man first.

No opposing 12man, then they face skirmish team (12 made up of smaller groups)

If no skirmish team they then face pugs.

So, for a 12man to face pugs, there cannot be another 12man or skirmish team available.

Since the 12man is 1% or less of total group population from last PGI metric, odds are you face a skirmish or pugs.

To not be club bait, join a group and stop being bottom of barrel in CW.

I really wish people first understood how CW organized drops before making comments.

[The6thMessenger]

Mystere, on 30 December 2017 - 07:12 AM, said:

But we must try because that is the only way progress can be achieved ... or we let them die by the wayside. <shrugs>

Lol. Just lol.

[Mystere]

Latorque, on 30 December 2017 - 04:37 AM, said:

Yeah, problem is i do not want the highlighted part. I can't, on top of that. This is due to a lack of time, and not wanting to be bossed around by some squeaky-voiced choleric 16-year old or some socially stunted armchair general doing his best drill sergeant impression on a thursday night.

Now, that's generalisation - i've been in 2 units, and most of those were nice guys, but i just can't and won't sacrifice my evenings for fixed training times, there's still sport and a social life. This leaves me as a paying, and i guess (?) mediocre pilot. I'd very much like to drop in FW, but will only do so if there is some fun for me (which doesn't necessarily mean a victory, i like a hard-fought defeat too).

Now an established unit certainly doesn't need me, but i guess i couldn't hurt as a filler either (even if i drop with their enemy team). Not even MC-rewards are getting me into the FW-qeue, i'm not masochistically inclined.

Which means, i neither support a good, coherent teamin victory or loss, nor am i available as a seal to club (let's be honest, there are always enough units doing just this since the dawn of MP-games and voice communication). I'm just one player less.

This results in: no mixing the queues, as long as an accessible experience for everyone is'nt achieved. And with the current gamemode of FW, i... don't really see how this could be achieved.

It has been repeatedly said over the years on these same forums that many units are just "beer and giggles" groups. Only the really dedicated players actually organize and join practice sessions.

[MischiefSC]

No.

Remove pugging from FW.

Add FW maps/modes as a QP option, so people can play it if they want.

You want LP rewards you do it in the more challenging environment.

[Mystere]

justcallme A S H, on 30 December 2017 - 05:07 AM, said:

Look I know you keep saying this, based on Russ's post from 2015. But I tell you now that it's not like that at all. It is first come, first serve.

The system is not what it was back in 2015 under FP2.0.

I have never seen the search screen "wait" to find another 12man. We hit lobby, it puts you into a lobby if there is a team already in a lobby awaiting. Be it a 12man or not, the game does not care under the 1 bukkit system and does not attempt to match you against another 12man or otherwise.

We are often hunting out groups on purpose (or hunting us) - Only to get matched total PUG teams either side.

Can someone else confirm?

In any case, that is on PGI. Publicly flogging units is not a solution.

[xX PUG Xx]

I've only read the first page and I can already feel my blood boiling at the pig-headed, self absorbed, "holier than thou" attitude of some. The UTTER ******** from the sainted Solo lords that units and premades are the reason that population is dieing, all the while avoiding each other. Hmmm... pretty sure my little group of FRIENDS fought groups from 10D, 07, -LAS and DSX last night and thoroughly enjoyed it but hey don't let my logic and everyday experience ruin your self absorbed rants about units and they're evil interactions.

If you had been paying any attention to the (lack of) development and feedback from those of us that play FP EVERYDAY, you would have noticed us trying to tell PGI that it is bleeding players. That there has to be a major overhaul to pull the units and teams back into what should be the flagship mode of the game has been stated over and over. If this were to happen and the population were to increase dramatically then splitting the queues would be a workable solution but I will state this based on over 5 years of experience....

Inexperienced or "solo" minded players will still get their teeth kicked in by more experienced or better coordinated "team" players. It happens every single day in both the QP and GQ, so why would it be any different in FP? Players complain about the MatchMaker not making balanced teams, the simple fact of the matter is the MM can only work with the ingredients it is provided: if manure goes in, then manure will come out.

I know for a fact that a large number of you will read this and only see a unit leader saying "git gud scrubs" but then you will probably be the ones that ignore threads like mine that offer advice and try to help. The same players that build 2xC-HML/C-LRM30 Adders and get wrecked by ..... well anything and come to the forums complaining that "insert any 'Mech that you failed to kill here" being OP. The same players that blame the "evil" meta builds that actually work (you know, the reason that they are "meta") for their own inability or outright refusal to use effective builds, basically hamstrining themselves and looking for everyone else to do so too and make them feel good about themselves.

This rant makes me seem unreasonable but I am so f****** fed up with the same horse **** being spouted and used to justify someones total lack of skill, looking in the mirror and asking honestly if it is the fault of the game, their team mates or was it something that you did or didn't do that led to your team being rolled is the first step to improving both yours and everyones experience. If youbstill come to it's "everyone elses fault that I lost" then you are most likely a narcisitic little so-and-so and you'll read this post and see...

Git gud scrub.

For those that want to improve and make the best of the lousy, shallow but still better than "Ring-a-ring-a-Nascar in QP" version if Faction Play that we have at the moment, then load up TeamSpeak and search out groups playing FP together. Asked the exerienced guys for advice on builds and Drop Decks, ask to group up with them and pay attention to their calls for movement and targetting of enemies.... in short, learn from those that know.

IF the population and game mechanics could handle it then I would be happy for PGI to create a "solo only" queue as I proposed in a loooong FP Reboot thread previously. At least the rest of the team and unit players won't have to put up with being blamed for the soloists not wanting to play as part of a team.

[Mystere]

MischiefSC, on 30 December 2017 - 07:21 AM, said:

No.

Remove pugging from FW.

Add FW maps/modes as a QP option, so people can play it if they want.

You want LP rewards you do it in the more challenging environment.

Dang it! I've survived and thrived all these years without joining any unit or teamspeak-organized drops. Don't make me, please!

Requiring unit affiliation (even if it is just a 1-person unit) should be enough.

Edited by Mystere, 30 December 2017 - 07:29 AM.

[Bud Crue]

N0MAD, on 30 December 2017 - 07:06 AM, said:

You a very wrong here, in fact we are saying that it should be all about teams being able to play teams, we are saying that they should have their own Q so they can play teams ALL THE TIME, just seems they are saying no they dont want that.
Who here doesnt want the teams to have a team Q?,,, anyone?

Then you split the population and make it even less viable then it already is. Great. Absent events both queues would be a ghost town...even more so than now.

Making FP all units (at least 2) all the time, simply forces the solos to make a choice to group up or don't play -ahead of time. Its really no different than the current mode other than a feeble attempt to enforce a tiny bit of pre planned cohesion without gutting the population while maintaining the whole point of the mode: unit play.

Edited by Bud Crue, 30 December 2017 - 07:28 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Mystere, on 30 December 2017 - 07:26 AM, said:

Dang it! I've survived and thrived all these years without joining any unit or teamspeak-organized drops. Don't make me, please!

Requiring unit affiliation (even if it is just a 1-person unit) should be enough.

I think it would need to at least be 2 otherwise we have the same problems we have now, no? Sure there are some soloists who thrive in the current environment but they are the exception to the complaint of "premades are killing the mode!" that we are hearing in this thread. Making folks like you group with a friend seems a small price to pay to kill that whine.

Edited by Bud Crue, 30 December 2017 - 07:36 AM.

[Mystere]

Koniving, on 30 December 2017 - 05:10 AM, said:

The population COULD support it, with...

8 players per team faction play (rather than 12) OR, to take a page from my own concept based entirely on PGI's given information on their faction play... allowing teams to start before they are complete and additional players to join within a certain window of time rather than forcing everyone to wait in the lobby.

This actually works for War Thunder.

However, if we're to get this, we might as well increase the maximum size of a team to battalion/cluster level with bigger maps and longer battles.

[Mystere]

N0MAD, on 30 December 2017 - 05:46 AM, said:

What the solo Q introduced at the very worst time possible with no rewards and set to fail, for a whole couple days?
I see.
Everyone knows why it failed, cept you obviously, but now its a convenient excuse for some to back up their argument..

One of the reason it failed was because many solo players created 1-person units specifically to avoid the anticipated cesspool.

[MischiefSC]

Mystere, on 30 December 2017 - 07:26 AM, said:

Dang it! I've survived and thrived all these years without joining any unit or teamspeak-organized drops. Don't make me, please!

Requiring unit affiliation (even if it is just a 1-person unit) should be enough.

Just be in a premade I guess.

I pugged for like a year and half with a positive w/l as a Davion loyalist ffs.

However that was, apparently, impossible. I was inept and helpless and totally incapable of communicating with my team and it was all utteely beyond my control and i should have given up and demanded the same rewards and chance of success as people who put in more effort than us. Because its a game, and that means i should win no matter what - otherwise why should I play.... right?

Edited by MischiefSC, 30 December 2017 - 07:41 AM.

[Mystere]

N0MAD, on 30 December 2017 - 06:16 AM, said:

now this person has the right idea...

And so do PGI (with their warning) and others saying just as much.

[N0MAD]

MischiefSC, on 30 December 2017 - 07:21 AM, said:

No.

Remove pugging from FW.

I totally agree with this, then it would actually be a competitive arena..
Thing is i bet within the month it would be a ghost town and unending ghostdrops.

Mystere, on 30 December 2017 - 07:40 AM, said:

One of the reason it failed was because many solo players created 1-person units specifically to avoid the anticipated cesspool.

No they created the one man groups so they could receive the rewards that werent available to the non unit player.

I searched but cant find, anyone know of a link to the original listing of rewards for solo/group that were offered when the solo Q was introduced?

Edited by N0MAD, 30 December 2017 - 07:59 AM.

[Mystere]

The6thMessenger, on 30 December 2017 - 07:19 AM, said:

Lol. Just lol.

What happens to people whose jobs have been obsoleted but steadfastly refuse to retrain for a job that is still in demand?

Edited by Mystere, 30 December 2017 - 08:05 AM.

[Mystere]

Bud Crue, on 30 December 2017 - 07:34 AM, said:

I think it would need to at least be 2 otherwise we have the same problems we have now, no? Sure there are some soloists who thrive in the current environment but they are the exception to the complaint of "premades are killing the mode!" that we are hearing in this thread. Making folks like you group with a friend seems a small price to pay to kill that whine.

But, but, but ....

What if players like myself decided to be sharks instead and fed on the seals swimming in solo queue? Then they would be whining about us and start demanding a fully skill-based queue!

Oh snap! That sound like solo QP!

Edited by Mystere, 30 December 2017 - 07:59 AM.