147 replies to this topic

[justcallme A S H]

MrMadguy, on 10 January 2018 - 03:03 AM, said:

W/L = 0.89 means more losses, than wins.
AvgMS = 174 means more games below 250, than above.
Both should cause drop of rating even with current biased PSR system... But it doesn't happen. I guess, "Small drop" is way too small in comparison to "Moderate rise". Not even 1/2. 1/10 may be?

It isn't just about winning. PSR can/does go up in a loss.

Like I said it's the differential between the two.

[A Shoddy Rental Mech]

I just maxed out my XP tier bar.



How did i do it?
W/L < 1.0 [check]
KDR < 1.0 [check]
1 winning month in the last 5 [check]




Not only is it an XP bar, it's a bad one at that.

[C E Dwyer]

The Nerf Bat, on 10 January 2018 - 05:06 AM, said:

I just maxed out my XP tier bar.



How did i do it?
W/L < 1.0 [check]
KDR < 1.0 [check]
1 winning month in the last 5 [check]




Not only is it an XP bar, it's a bad one at that.

Match score is what got you to T1 it's well above the average player standard.

This means in the games you lost a fair few must have been =

No gain and no loss

It would be interesting to see how many KMDD you have, it's about time P.G.I added this stat

Edited by Cathy, 10 January 2018 - 06:19 AM.

[Water Bear]

Can I just ask where everyone gets their information from? When I last read discussion about this (years ago) no one knew the exact algorithm used for skill improvement. We made a lot of guesses, but no one knew.

[Eirik Eriksson]

I dont play much any longer but a couple of QP´s when I fell like it.

Here are my stats with both main and alt account well anchored in the third tier. No secrets will be revealed, as I dont clearly understand them myself.

[General Solo]

The rewards for winning are larger aka not equall than the punishment for losing
Thus the upward trend.

If they were equal going down would be ezier.

For example if the PSR conditions were the same for wins as they are for loses
, then every time you did less than 250MS on a win your PSR would go down.

At the moment you can shoot the ground once on a win and not go down PSR.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 10 January 2018 - 10:53 PM.

[Xiphias]

Slow Speed, on 10 January 2018 - 11:21 AM, said:

I dont play much any longer but a couple of QP´s when I fell like it.

Here are my stats with both main and alt account well anchored in the third tier. No secrets will be revealed, as I dont clearly understand them myself.

If you played more you would move up to T1 without a problem. The only reason you aren't in T1 with those stats is that you haven't played enough to move up.

Mystere, on 04 January 2018 - 08:06 AM, said:

PSR? KDR? W/L?

I use a joystick.

Do you even play this game anymore, or do you just post on the forums?

[Curccu]

Xiphias, on 10 January 2018 - 11:01 PM, said:

IDo you even play this game anymore, or do you just post on the forums?

One of those angry founders that haven't played the game for a long time but active forum user about how the game is now.

[sycocys]

El Bandito, on 10 January 2018 - 03:20 AM, said:

Hah, I WISH my pugmates in SQ can put out 800+ damage every game. They don't.

That's because you are on the field putting out 1200+ damage killing everyone before they can even fire.

My example came from that stupid "win on this map" event, where PGI stopped penalizing people for suiciding/quitting matches about 1 day in. Ended up piling up losses because I just wanted to play the silly game, and was fortunate enough about 8 players on my team would drop out immediately for 70+ straight matches.

I found out PSR can indeed go down with that event. Then when the event was done I found out how fast it can fly upwards if you want it to or play primarily the high alpha/strip everything (not necessarily clan) builds. It normalizes to a slow but steady gain if you play for efficient kills and team strategies.

[Eirik Eriksson]

Xiphias, on 10 January 2018 - 11:01 PM, said:

If you played more you would move up to T1 without a problem. The only reason you aren't in T1 with those stats is that you haven't played enough to move up.


Do you even play this game anymore, or do you just post on the forums?

The issue is that the accounts have a few thousands of QP games and a few hundreds of FP games on top of that. It will probably take a heck of lots of matches more just to move them out of tier 3. In the meantime I should continue enjoying situations where I can stand totally still facing an enemy while I strip his components one by one? No, this is the issue which makes me play much less than before.

As the tier at least partly determines the opposition and teammates in the matchmaking we need to either cap the starting time of the tier measuring shorter or in some other way have a matching were a few hundred of the latest games are used for the matchmaking instead of tiers.

Edited by Slow Speed, 11 January 2018 - 07:48 AM.

[Mystere]

Xiphias, on 10 January 2018 - 11:01 PM, said:

Do you even play this game anymore, or do you just post on the forums?

Oh I do play. But for several months now I usually get bored quickly after less than 10 drops -- Is there really anything substantially new in this game? -- I end up playing another more joystick-friendly game. And once the new HTC Vive Pro comes out for sale ...

Finally, here's also a hint: the leaderboard does not show CW drops. Or did you not know?

Curccu, on 10 January 2018 - 11:31 PM, said:

One of those angry founders that haven't played the game for a long time but active forum user about how the game is now.

The hint above probably applies even more to you.

Edited by Mystere, 11 January 2018 - 09:44 AM.

[Jeldar Darkmantle]

Here is a neat comparison. I play only IS on this account, and only sporadically, but I made another account to try out clan stuff. It is an interesting comparison. The clan account I have only played the KDK-3 trial mech and a MAD-IIC laser vomit I bought and kitted.

https://leaderboard....ldar+darkmantle

https://leaderboard....at+born+villain

Edited by Jeldar Darkmantle, 11 January 2018 - 12:52 PM.

[vandalhooch]

arcana75, on 02 January 2018 - 04:48 AM, said:

Ok so upon joining I see alot of people say the Tier bar is a simple XP bar and everyone eventually climbs to Tier 1 eventually regardless of how bad they are. That could be factually correct, the operative word here being eventually?

The people who claim that the system is just an XP bar are really just bad at math. They look at the list of all possible outcomes for a pilot's PSR at the end of match and see that there are more options for moving up than down and just assume that that's what will happen given time. None of them seem to comprehend that the possible outcomes are not all equally likely for any given pilot.

If you are a poor pilot and consistently do poorly in nearly every match, then even a W/L ratio of 1.0 will cause your PSR to go down! Not up.

Quote

I'm aware of a player who only just entered Tier 4 over the new year, and this person has been around since Season 1 of the Leaderboard, although I have no idea when Season 1 was. By my count this pilot has clocked thousands of matches I didn't add it all up but it's several thousands, with recent Seasons clocking over 500 matches.

If I went by what people said here, this pilot ought to be in Tier 1 by now. However as I stated this pilot just crossed Tier 4 over the new year. And not by design too, ie intentionally throwing matches. Scores aren't bad either, season 18 over 300+ matches average score of 200+.

If the Tier bar is merely an XP bar, then no matter how slow the climb shouldn't this pilot be at least Tier 3 or 2 or even 1 by now, and not just crossing into Tier 4 after 19 seasons?

[vandalhooch]

Bud Crue, on 02 January 2018 - 05:13 AM, said:

My stats are awful and If I’m tier 1 (and I am) then anyone with a pulse and the ability to hold and click a mouse will eventually get to tier 1 as well. It really is that simple. It may take a couple of years, but you will get there.

No you won't. That isn't how math actually works.

Quote

Ways to make that journey shorter (that is if getting to tier 1 is some sort of goal for you) that I wish I would have known:
- don’t spend a year playing Panthers, Jenners and Ravens and almost nothing else, especially if you are not good at playing those sorts of mechs in the first place (you want to stay in T5 though? Play a Panther 10P for 6 months, only mech I played consistently that allowed me to drop in the tier bar...admittedly even that took a while);
- don’t ignore the meta and convince yourself that your special snowflake build “works great for me” when in reality you have gotten lucky with that POS a couple of times;
- don’t ignore the advice given to you by better players;
-play heavies.

I took a couple of years to get there and I did it playing bad mechs with mostly awful builds, and with a tendency to rush in and fire at the first thing I see and then tunnel visioning until I or the target dies. Trust me. There was not and there is still not a whole lot of skill involved in getting to Tier 1. Skill just makes the advancement happen a lot quicker.

[Bud Crue]

vandalhooch, on 11 January 2018 - 06:19 PM, said:

No you won't. That isn't how math actually works.

Math, shmath,

I am a 60% player stats wise (or am I worse now on the Jarls list?) a .63 KDR and just as bad a win loss ratio. I play drunk and with bad builds. I am Tier 1.
Explain the math. Please. It may very well be interesting and my understanding may very well be wrong, but it doesn't change the fact that, I the epitome of mediocrity, am according to "the math" of the tier system at the pinnacle of skill. That is absurd, and if I can do it anyone can, math be damned.

Edited by Bud Crue, 11 January 2018 - 06:35 PM.

[BlueStrat]

El Bandito, on 02 January 2018 - 05:07 AM, said:

There are people who still cannot get to T1, after 2 years of actively playing the game. I pray they will not be in my team, ever.

But I was in a solo-QP match with you just a few days ago!

[El Bandito]

BlueStrat, on 11 January 2018 - 06:59 PM, said:

But I was in a solo-QP match with you just a few days ago!

Bad luck on my part then.

[vandalhooch]

Bud Crue, on 11 January 2018 - 06:31 PM, said:

Math, shmath,

I am a 60% player stats wise (or am I worse now on the Jarls list?) a .63 KDR and just as bad a win loss ratio. I play drunk and with bad builds. I am Tier 1.
Explain the math. Please. It may very well be interesting and my understanding may very well be wrong, but it doesn't change the fact that, I the epitome of mediocrity, am according to "the math" of the tier system at the pinnacle of skill. That is absurd, and if I can do it anyone can, math be damned.

Because anecdotes are data now?

[Tarl Cabot]

Thing is though when a game snowballs into what most would call a stomp, those who move up to Tier 1 are doing well enough that even on bad losses, it is enough to make up for it and even more.

KDR means does not mean as much since getting a Kill could be generated with 1pt of damage. KMDD/Solo kills would be more appropriate but even though it does not show if you were 2nd place on 0 or 9 kills. This is likely why damage is the largest factor.

Jarl's list though is incomplete since it is calculated since the Seasons went live in June 2016 a year and half ago. PSR went live in August 2015.

Found it. I had remarked about moving into Tier 1 on 11-19-2016. When PSR was seeded from the previous Elo system in 8-19-2015 I was Tier 3.6ish mark. I may be a good team player but I am definitely not an elite player.

https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__5485513

Anyhow, just looking at a couple of the long time tier 4-5 players, many have a 9.0+ W/L, KDR 0.7 but an overall MS of less than 160MS or less with the exception of the last 3 seasons generating 200-260 MS while noting he were able to break into Tier 4 from Tier 5.

As for being an experience bar, in other games you can be killing light blue NPC and gain very little experience (you also are doing less damage) vs killing dark blues/yellows, more experience but also you have to put out more damage to do so. Unlike those type of damages though, a player spends about the same amount of time looking for a game, in combat and putting out damage. A loss without putting out enough damage/etc for a higher MS is similar to dying and either not getting a rez at all or getting a lower percentage rez, not earning all of the experience points lost.

[Ted Wayz]

justcallme A S H, on 10 January 2018 - 03:29 AM, said:

It isn't just about winning. PSR can/does go up in a loss.

Like I said it's the differential between the two.

Can go up in a loss. But not for most as it requires a "very high" minimum match score and results in the "lowest rise". Not my words, Paul's when the system was released and it hasn't changed.

Just stahp. It is 95% about winning. Period.

And winning is 95% about team performance. And in solo queue you do not get to decide who you are teamed with. So PSR is mostly determined by matchmaker for the majority of players.

GG close.