75 replies to this topic

[DevlinCognito]

Good choice. Ignore the players who have put time and thought into the game because their views differ from yours.

GG.

[LordNothing]

i do kind of want fp to improve. but solaris brings an alternative to fp pugging, so when solaris hits there will be a mass exodous of the puggernauts leaving only unit players and extreme masochists. a 1v1 arena game with no hand holding is certainly my kind of mode. 2v2 becomes the offitial "buddy mode". fp needs something to keep those players in, otherwise it may very well die off. softening the mode for lesser players would help a lot to improve its popularity.

my opinions about qp are mostly that it is, in fact, solaris arena. so you might have qp merge into solaris to a degree. or you might partition it between fp and solaris. some modes (conquest, incursion) just seem to work better in fp while others (domination, assault) have a solaris vibe to them. id love to see a large arena ffa mode of some sorts, perhaps 6 lances in a team ffa or just a 24 player survival mode. these would be called "exhibition matches", and would be unranked, except you could climb a fp style rewards tree for goodies. matchmaker maybe, but based on something other than psr (perhaps relative standings).

of course fp would need a revamp as well. with fp being effectively a 2 bucket system (if it was a one bucket system every unit would be able to fight every other unit regardless of allegiance) i think that it is theoretically possible to remove a bucket and add a bucket to fix the problem with solo/unit interactions. the bucket you remove would obviously be the separate clan/is buckets, allowing for is vs is and clan vs clan battles to become normal (face it the side quest system was a flop). "civil war" battles are for voting multipler (giving your faction more say as to where to fight) while clan vs is battles are all about taking planets. the bucket you add is really a half bucket, because its using my fuzzy bucket idea. with seporate queues for big groups and small groups where pugs are slotted into free spots in both buckets. this makes fp capable of absorbing qp modes that are conductive to fp without a spike in salt (as a pug you either face a big unit with the help of another big unit, or you face a small unit and a bunch of pugs, never pugs vs 12, and as a unit you face more units). you also do it in a way that educates new players and gives units a powerful recruiting tool.

match maker would probibly go away completely, face it, it doesnt

Edited by LordNothing, 05 January 2018 - 06:20 AM.

[Dago Red]

This is just a terrible idea. Solaris is going to be way more of a shark tank than any mode before and you want to remove solo que to force the most casual players into it?

Never mind that a lot of people straight up prefer quick play because it gives the full game play experience with low pressure and doesn't take 45 minutes between searching and the game itself.

The game doesn't have enough variety as is. What would make you possibly think this would help that situation?

Or is tier 2 still too clubby?

[Nameless King]

Vellron2005, on 05 January 2018 - 05:59 AM, said:

Yeah, but you see, quick play has no lore-based logical reason to exist.. but ok.. I get it.. its quick meaningless slaughter..

I understand many like this.. But I suspect many who are playing it now will switch to Solaris.. especially if they ever make 4 Vs 4 or 12 free for all variants..

What worries me is further splitting the playerbase, resulting in longer wait times..

I wont stop playing QP because Solaris is around, I will play them both.

Also I dont care about lore in anyway.

[Latorque]

Vellron2005, on 05 January 2018 - 05:59 AM, said:

I find it funny that most of the people talking against the idea here, are all solid T1s.. a minority really.. I would like to know what the T4 and T3s think..

Its pretty much clear the T1 clubbers have a particular opinion on just about anything in this game..

Edit: here it is




Yeah, but you see, quick play has no lore-based logical reason to exist.. but ok.. I get it.. its quick meaningless slaughter..

I understand many like this.. But I suspect many who are playing it now will switch to Solaris.. especially if they ever make 4 Vs 4 or 12 free for all variants..

What worries me is further splitting the playerbase, resulting in longer wait times..

Hehe, sorry, T2 here, mediocre pilot i guess. Slowly grinding upwards, but i only play when i can and want. I like the lore of BT (the little that i know), but i'm not that far immersed that i'd declare myself for any faction. Interestingly enough, maybe i would invest more time IF FP would be able to draw me in - from what i've experienced in the very first days, it did pretty much the opposite of that: it shot me back to QP in a freaking cannon. So, for me (and maybe my ilk?) 24 giant stompy robots in pretty colors smashing each others faces doesn't hurt me by violating the established fluff, for the time being - of course it doesn't resemble anything remotely realistic.

I've ranted enough in some other topics about my unadultered hatred for the siege gamemode, but it basically boils down to this: if FP would feel fun enough for me to invest more time, i presume i would do so (and in the end maybe even find a unit and drop regularly in FP), as long as it sure-as-hell-doesn't, i will fight tooth and nail to avoid being forced out of my QP - bucket. . For this, siege would have to go, plain and simple. I could live with dropdecks though.

Oh, and i can't really see Solaris drawing me in either. I'll be sure to give it a whirl, but the exultation / desperation - aspect of MWO ist tightly bound to the number of mechs slugging it out. Nothing like watching a flank crumble - our's or the other teams and feeling that things are about to get interesting . In that regard, i guess FP has a higher chance of me participating than Solaris.

[Vellron2005]

DevlinCognito, on 05 January 2018 - 06:08 AM, said:

Good choice. Ignore the players who have put time and thought into the game because their views differ from yours.

GG.

Not because their view differs from mine.. no.. but because their view is extremely subjective.. a point your post makes for me..

T1s in this game are kinda like millionaires are in real life.. they exist in their own little world, seeing all others as little more than cattle..

I don't ignore their opinion.. I'm just saying their opinion is clear.. And since most of the replies to this thread are made by T1s, I would like to hear from people with different, more down to earth views..

[sycocys]

Bud Crue, on 05 January 2018 - 05:23 AM, said:

You’re effectively arguing that by eliminating QP you would give folks no choice but to play FP if they wanted to continue with any mode that provides group play.
Essentially giving the majority of the community no choice but to play FP if they want to keep playing.

My suggestion is that qp should be the solo drops of FP. Essentially the same exact thing it is now - 1 mech, 1 match - the only difference is that you are accruing points for you faction instead of having pointless matches.

Beyond that it would make far more sense to separate the rest of FP into 3 buckets. 4 man, 6 or 8 man (8 probably makes more sense for lances), and 12 man groups. Then get rid of the multi-drop mechanic in favor of a multi-match mechanic which eliminates most of the need for a psr MM as it auto filters for difficulty and turns group play into self-contained pvp campaigns.

Then you can just remove the restriction for tech choice in solo drops, and groups are still restricted by your chosen faction but mixed teams are allowed outside of events like Tuk.

For scoring it really can't be that hard to track wins by pilot then shift it so planets only tally once a day.

[TKSax]

Vellron2005, on 05 January 2018 - 04:02 AM, said:

. Admittedly its because comp groups use FP as training grounds why you get stomps in FP..

Nothing could be further from the truth. There are no top comp teams that use Faction Play as training grounds, because there is nothing in Faction Play that really transfers over to comp play for either the MWO-WC or MRBC.

[Bud Crue]

sycocys, on 05 January 2018 - 06:36 AM, said:

My suggestion is that qp should be the solo drops of FP. Essentially the same exact thing it is now - 1 mech, 1 match - the only difference is that you are accruing points for you faction instead of having pointless matches.

That sounds fine.

The rest though, specifically trying to split the queue by group sizes, is DOA.
FP needs to be a draw in and of its own right. It needs to be an enticing game play experience that people are attracted to and want to play. Until it is (dare to dream), we simply do not have the population for things like this. Your idea may have merit if FP was such a draw already but it isn’t. As to the OP’s idea to kill QP in order to force folks into FP, that is cutting your head off to spite your body. It kills not only QP but the game.

[TKSax]

Vellron2005, on 05 January 2018 - 06:34 AM, said:

Not because their view differs from mine.. no.. but because their view is extremely subjective.. a point your post makes for me..

T1s in this game are kinda like millionaires are in real life.. they exist in their own little world, seeing all others as little more than cattle..

You realize the Largest amount of players in MWO right now are Tier 1 and Tier 5 becuase of the way PGI's PSR System works and tier 3 has smallest amount of players.

Edited by TKSax, 05 January 2018 - 06:48 AM.

[Asym]

No.

As said earlier, comp teams use FP to train isn't far from the truth.... It's why a great many of us as individuals don't play the Invasion side of FP and why a few teams avoid it at all possible convenience....

Solaris will last till the comp and elite players realize that there will be so many fewer noobs and PUGs to farm that they'll end up playing against each other; and that, simply, won't last but a few months and Solaris will have a crisis the same as FP: no one will go there...... I just can't see any incentives to being there?

Why would anyone want to be massacred game after game for no benefit?? Of the upper level players I've talked to off-line, a majority give it 3 months or so till the comp/elite players realize there's no one to easily beat and they'll start whining about "FP" being where we should be (so they can farm). PGI has created a lose-lose scenario and I just don't get it? We are a niche but even niche's have limits. JMO and please. limit the traditional salt, it's just an opinion.....

[TKSax]

Asym, on 05 January 2018 - 06:51 AM, said:

No.

As said earlier, comp teams use FP to train isn't far from the truth....

No as said before it is not even the truth. There is nothing in FP that transfers over to comp play in MRBC and MWO-WC. We train in private lobbies. If we play Faction Play it is for an event or just for fun but that does not mean we are not trying to win.

Asym, on 05 January 2018 - 06:51 AM, said:

Of the upper level players I've talked to off-line, a majority give it 3 months or so till the comp/elite players realize there's no one to easily beat and they'll start whining about "FP" being where we should be (so they can farm).

I am not sure what upper level players you are talking to, but they are not truly comp or elite players if they feel like that. However I will say if there are not enough incentives in Solaris to keep people playing your right why would you waste time in it.

[sycocys]

Bud Crue, on 05 January 2018 - 06:45 AM, said:

That sounds fine.

The rest though, specifically trying to split the queue by group sizes, is DOA.
FP needs to be a draw in and of its own right. It needs to be an enticing game play experience that people are attracted to and want to play. Until it is (dare to dream), we simply do not have the population for things like this. Your idea may have merit if FP was such a draw already but it isn’t. As to the OP’s idea to kill QP in order to force folks into FP, that is cutting your head off to spite your body. It kills not only QP but the game.

IMO actually making the group play matches into varied lengths of contained campaign style competition would do a far better job of making the mode and grouping a draw than anything that's been implemented up to this point.

Maybe even most so at the 12 man level because it would be able to include everything from scouting up to invasions and in between.

[- World Eater -]

How many more bad threads are we going to get this week from OP?

[TWIAFU]

Vellron2005, on 05 January 2018 - 05:59 AM, said:

I find it funny that most of the people talking against the idea here, are all solid T1s.. a minority really.. I would like to know what the T4 and T3s think..

Its pretty much clear the T1 clubbers have a particular opinion on just about anything in this game..

Vellron2005, on 05 January 2018 - 04:02 AM, said:

it is because large groups use QP as training grounds that you get wild stomps.. Admittedly its because comp groups use FP as training grounds why you get stomps in FP..

Vellron2005, on 05 January 2018 - 06:34 AM, said:

Not because their view differs from mine.. no.. but because their view is extremely subjective.. a point your post makes for me..

T1s in this game are kinda like millionaires are in real life.. they exist in their own little world, seeing all others as little more than cattle..

I don't ignore their opinion.. I'm just saying their opinion is clear.. And since most of the replies to this thread are made by T1s, I would like to hear from people with different, more down to earth views..

You were saying something about subject views? Own little world? Opinion made clear?

Generalizing all T1 as Clubbers, considering that Tier = XP Bar, all the while hiding YOUR Tier...

Yes, we can see your non-subjective view in crystal clarity.

[Mystere]

Vellron2005, on 05 January 2018 - 03:33 AM, said:

I've been thinking..

What if we put Solaris in the game, and then remove Quick Play?

And by doing so, more people might play FP.. and therefore we could have better matches..

But, this would also mean that FP should have more substance, at least in terms of planets meaning something..

Is this not logical?

I mean.. QP exists so players can have a quick game that doesn't really mean anything in the grand scheme of things.. like an "arcade mode" really..

Solaris is just that - but with more substance! (because sponsors, fame, leader boards and all that)

Also, is it not logical that warriors only have the FP or Solaris choices in lore?

Never have 24 mechs fought eachother just for kicks.. it's either serious military ops, like planetary conquest, or Solaris..

And best of all.. it would not create another bucket and split the playerbase further with another game mode?

Have you really been here longer than I have? I am asking because that is not exactly a new idea.

Edited by Mystere, 05 January 2018 - 09:53 AM.

[Asym]

TKSax, on 05 January 2018 - 06:56 AM, said:

No as said before it is not even the truth. There is nothing in FP that transfers over to comp play in MRBC and MWO-WC. We train in private lobbies. If we play Faction Play it is for an event or just for fun but that does not mean we are not trying to win.

I am not sure what upper level players you are talking to, but they are not truly comp or elite players if they feel like that. However I will say if there are not enough incentives in Solaris to keep people playing your right why would you waste time in it.

Here again, what people think in private may not be what you see in normal gameplay.... When 228 drops for an event in FP, or as 2 or 3 man sync drops in QP, or 2 or 3 man teams in Scouting, what is the first thing you hear: "Oh good grief, here we go again..." That is a precption talking and as professional therapists would call it "a psychological reversal of risk and certainity": we play 228 we lose....why play? We've beaten those small teams time and time again but, the "preception is the reality" and players have and continue to DC or rush an die to get it over with... Why waste our time when there is no hope; how did they get into this match; or, "here come the snide comments when we start to lose..." Again, not always true or fair to your team's skills or record.... But, as you've read above: "the internet doesn't need to be fair or just"...

There's no fault in this, it's just an observation from a player here less than a year with no desire for competitions.... The disconnect is that there is a huge difference between having fun and getting paid to play games.... That difference influences everything we think and do.........success is when the gap between them is reasonable and achievable....

[TKSax]

Asym, on 05 January 2018 - 09:58 AM, said:

Words

I am not sure what you said above has to do with anything I said.

I will clarify a bit what I said about Solaris will be a ghost town if it is not any fun and/or the are not rewarding enough to deal with how the game mode is laid out by PGI.

[Davegt27]

Vellron2005, on 05 January 2018 - 03:33 AM, said:

I've been thinking..

What if we put Solaris in the game, and then remove Quick Play?

And by doing so, more people might play FP.. and therefore we could have better matches..

But, this would also mean that FP should have more substance, at least in terms of planets meaning something..

Is this not logical?

I mean.. QP exists so players can have a quick game that doesn't really mean anything in the grand scheme of things.. like an "arcade mode" really..

Solaris is just that - but with more substance! (because sponsors, fame, leader boards and all that)

Also, is it not logical that warriors only have the FP or Solaris choices in lore?

Never have 24 mechs fought eachother just for kicks.. it's either serious military ops, like planetary conquest, or Solaris..

And best of all.. it would not create another bucket and split the playerbase further with another game mode?

I know your trolling but hey I will play along

how about a better idea you could Morph MWO to have two paths of play
both paths would be interchangeable at anytime

one path is how we have it now but the other is a roll playing path

you can still drop in any Mech you want but its a path where you have to play
all game modes
QP (call it special ops if you like)
Solaris (you have to level up to qualify for higher tiers)
the Solaris matches would be frequent and random you just get a notice when you log in

the career path is designed to be both fun and challenging

FP is the next area once you level up you now qualify for FP
but it also has its levels from 4V4 to light skirmish to full blown 12 man vs 12 man

GLHF

[Jay Leon Hart]

Vellron2005, on 05 January 2018 - 03:33 AM, said:

What if we put Solaris in the game, and then remove Quick Play?

And by doing so, more people might play FP.. and therefore we could have better matches..

What if we leave the mode people actually play alone (QP) and remove FP, so people who think PGI will ever keep their promise for CW can play Solaris instead?