75 replies to this topic

[Jay Leon Hart]

Vellron2005, on 05 January 2018 - 05:59 AM, said:

Yeah, but you see, quick play has no lore-based logical reason to exist.. but ok.. I get it.. its quick meaningless slaughter..

I understand many like this.. But I suspect many who are playing it now will switch to Solaris.. especially if they ever make 4 Vs 4 or 12 free for all variants..

TDM is and always has been the most popular mode in any FPS I have played in the last 20-ish years of online gaming.

If Solaris launches with full XvX matches, then maybe, but if it only launches with 1v1 and the rest is promised "soon" then no, no thanks, I'll stick to QP or go back to either Warframe or Smite.

[Cementi]

I am utterly baffled how anyone could think taking away the game mode most people play to force them to play the game mode no one plays is a good idea.

I genuinely think this may be the worst idea have heard for MWO.

[Mystere]

Cementi, on 05 January 2018 - 11:54 AM, said:

I am utterly baffled how anyone could think taking away the game mode most people play to force them to play the game mode no one plays is a good idea.

I genuinely think this may be the worst idea have heard for MWO.

it's all in the packaging/marketing. The OP is doing it wrong.

[Daggett]

Vellron2005, on 05 January 2018 - 03:33 AM, said:

I've been thinking..

What if we put Solaris in the game, and then remove Quick Play?

And by doing so, more people might play FP.. and therefore we could have better matches..

But, this would also mean that FP should have more substance, at least in terms of planets meaning something..

Is this not logical?

I mean.. QP exists so players can have a quick game that doesn't really mean anything in the grand scheme of things.. like an "arcade mode" really..

Solaris is just that - but with more substance! (because sponsors, fame, leader boards and all that)

Also, is it not logical that warriors only have the FP or Solaris choices in lore?

Never have 24 mechs fought eachother just for kicks.. it's either serious military ops, like planetary conquest, or Solaris..

And best of all.. it would not create another bucket and split the playerbase further with another game mode?

You forgot that QP offers something no other mode does: Quick matches with 24 players but without respawns/dropdecks.
FP is _not_ quick and Solaris won't offer the same tactical depth with only 2-4 players.

In fact i think QP is currently the lifeblood of MWO. Take that away and no one will magically convert to FP who disliked it so far. They will probably simply stop playing.

But why not do it the other way around? Integrate QP into FP in a way that each QP match influences something in the big picture but keep the surrounding campaign stuff optional if a player is not interested in FP and just want to smash some stuff.

I think the whole initial design of FP to be a separate thing was a big mistake. QP could have been easily expanded with the galactic planet-swapping features and be called FP. This would have required much less resources (no new gamemode with maps and dropdecks needed) so it would have been possible to first give more depth to the actual FP planet-swapping with features like production facilities or supply lines.

Then later on when FP is established in the community, PGI would have been able to add all the dropdeck and invasion stuff into it to coexist with QP. Sure, a new queue would probaly be needed like in today's FP, but with an actual feature-rich FP campaign around it i think it would have attracted much more fans than it has now...

Edited by Daggett, 05 January 2018 - 12:51 PM.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Vellron2005, on 05 January 2018 - 03:33 AM, said:

I mean.. QP exists so players can have a quick game that doesn't really mean anything in the grand scheme of things.. like an "arcade mode" really..

Solaris is just that - but with more substance! (because sponsors, fame, leader boards and all that)

Also, is it not logical that warriors only have the FP or Solaris choices in lore?

FP promotes long range meta and use of very specific mechs. Solaris will, from what we see in scouting, promote brawly meta and very specific mechs.

If QP is removed we will literally have no place to fool around with something other than ERLL or SRM boats, so no, bad idea.

[Xiphias]

Do you want to kill the game? Because this is how you kill the game.

Cementi, on 05 January 2018 - 11:54 AM, said:

I am utterly baffled how anyone could think taking away the game mode most people play to force them to play the game mode no one plays is a good idea.

I genuinely think this may be the worst idea have heard for MWO.

This is Vellron2005 we are talking about here. I can't think of a single thing they've ever posted that was a good idea.

Asym, on 05 January 2018 - 06:51 AM, said:

No.

As said earlier, comp teams use FP to train isn't far from the truth.... It's why a great many of us as individuals don't play the Invasion side of FP and why a few teams avoid it at all possible convenience....

Comp players don't use FP to train, they use private lobbies. You don't see it as a pug, but it happens. If you think anything else you're delusional and denying the facts.

Quote

Of the upper level players I've talked to off-line, a majority give it 3 months or so till the comp/elite players realize there's no one to easily beat and they'll start whining about "FP" being where we should be (so they can farm). PGI has created a lose-lose scenario and I just don't get it? We are a niche but even niche's have limits. JMO and please. limit the traditional salt, it's just an opinion.....

Who are these "upper level players" you've talked to. The real comp players that I know are excited for and looking forward to Solaris because we like good competition. T1 does't count as being an "upper level player" and I doubt many players on serious comp teams are saying anything close to this. Again, I think you're confusing "upper level players" with, "FP potato farmers".

Asym, on 05 January 2018 - 09:58 AM, said:

Here again, what people think in private may not be what you see in normal gameplay.... When 228 drops for an event in FP, or as 2 or 3 man sync drops in QP, or 2 or 3 man teams in Scouting, what is the first thing you hear: "Oh good grief, here we go again..." That is a precption talking and as professional therapists would call it "a psychological reversal of risk and certainity": we play 228 we lose....why play? We've beaten those small teams time and time again but, the "preception is the reality" and players have and continue to DC or rush an die to get it over with... Why waste our time when there is no hope; how did they get into this match; or, "here come the snide comments when we start to lose..." Again, not always true or fair to your team's skills or record.... But, as you've read above: "the internet doesn't need to be fair or just"...

There's no fault in this, it's just an observation from a player here less than a year with no desire for competitions.... The disconnect is that there is a huge difference between having fun and getting paid to play games.... That difference influences everything we think and do.........success is when the gap between them is reasonable and achievable....

I think this is the perception problem that I don't understand in people, the defeatist attitude that because I can't win I won't try. I have had plenty of matches where I looked at the players on ether side and realized it was going to be a loss, even calling it in chat before the match starts. That doesn't stop me from playing the best I can given the circumstances. You need to get stomped some times to learn to get better. Some of us welcome the occasional loss because it gives us the challenge to be better and improve. I like to win, but I can handle losses just as well.

[DevlinCognito]

I think you're right, it's a perception problem. People click the 'Ok' on the big fat warning before entering FW without truly realising what it means. They promptly get a team of players of mixed ability on the other side that smash them and assume 'Tier 1 Comp' players, whereas it's a just a group of players working together, some of whom are similar skill, some who are just BETTER. It doesn't make them a comp team by any stretch. That same team that just smashed them would in all probability be smashed in turn by a true comp team. However they can't/won't understand that.

Anyways, silly idea is silly. While I'm all for changing things up, and feel the only way this game can continue to cater to all types is by changing the group sizes for differing game modes, taking away the solo queue is just .. dumb.

[gooddragon2]

No. I like playing with random people in large groups. It's like tf2 to me with longer match times. More people is more casual. Fewer people is more competitive. I don't care enough about a game to get that competitive and I suspect a lot of other qp players feel the same way.

Edited by gooddragon2, 05 January 2018 - 02:15 PM.

[Davegt27]

Solaris is going to be pretty funny when Mechs show up with Pasties and peacock tails

[justcallme A S H]

TKSax, on 05 January 2018 - 06:56 AM, said:

No as said before it is not even the truth. There is nothing in FP that transfers over to comp play in MRBC and MWO-WC. We train in private lobbies. If we play Faction Play it is for an event or just for fun but that does not mean we are not trying to win.

I am not sure what upper level players you are talking to, but they are not truly comp or elite players if they feel like that. However I will say if there are not enough incentives in Solaris to keep people playing your right why would you waste time in it.

Many players have demonstrated time and time again they have no clue of the difference between organised play and comp, unfortunately.

I mean look at FP - Which of the Div A teams, play it in large numbers, regularly.

Not one team.

You don't see EmP / D5 / 228BW / EON / RJF / SiG / Oz / -42-etc etc in FP, ever. Maybe a player or two here/there but that is it.

You occasionally see 228 Oceanic + Friends (Usually drunk Fri drops) & JGx (usually in small numbers) but that's honestly about it as far as the top comp teams and FP go.

But alas people will still claim what they believe is true even in the face of evidence/fact/reality.

[Y E O N N E]

This would only be an excuse for me to not play MWO.

[justcallme A S H]

TKSax, on 05 January 2018 - 10:04 AM, said:

I am not sure what you said above has to do with anything I said.

I will clarify a bit what I said about Solaris will be a ghost town if it is not any fun and/or the are not rewarding enough to deal with how the game mode is laid out by PGI.

You won't get a logical argument with proof or evidence, just give up lol.

I totally agree with Solaris as well. Popular for maybe 8-12 weeks and then dies out, mainly once people realise where they thik they are at play level wise is not where they actually are.

Plug PGI deciding on ranking of Chassis... Given recent balance and the fact loadouts changes viability of a chassis... I'm not entirely sure how that is going to work.

[gooddragon2]

justcallme A S H, on 05 January 2018 - 03:58 PM, said:

You won't get a logical argument with proof or evidence, just give up lol.

I totally agree with Solaris as well. Popular for maybe 8-12 weeks and then dies out, mainly once people realise where they thik they are at play level wise is not where they actually are.

Plug PGI deciding on ranking of Chassis... Given recent balance and the fact loadouts changes viability of a chassis... I'm not entirely sure how that is going to work.

Give it points that you gain win or lose and allow players to purchase loot bags like stocking stuffers with them and I'd play it. That way win or lose you have a chance at stuff like MC, mechbays, and other stuff.

[justcallme A S H]

Ah you already do? Win or lose. It's called loyalty points for either Loyalist or Mercenary trees.

For each rank you get access to various things like:

- CBills
- Mechbays
- MC

Edited by justcallme A S H, 05 January 2018 - 04:10 PM.

[Simbacca]

The difficulty arises from those Loyalists who run both InnerSphere and Clan mechs - how would the system even work?

[Leone]

Asym, on 05 January 2018 - 06:51 AM, said:

Why would anyone want to be massacred game after game for no benefit??

There's always benefit to be found. it is not our fault you cannot find it. I, for one, love a challenge, and have an alt for trying to sync drop against my unit, because sometimes we're full, and I love fighting with those guys. On both sides.

Vellron2005, on 05 January 2018 - 06:34 AM, said:

And since most of the replies to this thread are made by T1s, I would like to hear from people with different, more down to earth views..

Hey there. I'm Leone, Once Raid Leader of the Crimson Hand Mercenary Band, now of Kell's Commandos. I'm tier three, cuz, you know, Tiers. I figure I'm pretty down to earth. I usually play vanguard, trying to break firing lines and distract for my team, oft tossing mechs into the fray trying to support newbs making positional errors, or to break through an enemy strongpoint. I'm a brawler through and through, and I pretty much only play CW. You may've seen me in the new player forums some as well, or seen some of my walkthroughs.

I think you could try toning down the toxicity in your posts and not dismiss out of hand other viewpoints. You obviously love the game, which is great, and I approve of trying to brain storm ways to help. But you're coming across kinda rude, and it doesn't help your stance any when you dismiss outta hand the thoughts and concerns of others. You don't even hafta agree. Just a 'I've considered what you said, and here's why I disagree' can go a long way. I respect those guys, even when I disagree. I almost didn't post my own thoughts, cuz I didn't expect you to pay attention, but whelp, I'm hoping other's'll take what I'm saying to heart. This is a forum. The one's you're arguing with aren't the only ones reading your posts.

Quickplay is a great place to test builds and mess around. Only takes a few minutes to queue up, so you can easily get a new game going once your down. And hey, if you mess up, it's only quickplay. I love CW, and it's why I'm still here, but quickplay serves a very valuable service.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 05 January 2018 - 04:54 PM.

[Seranov]

God no. Why should every Tom, **** and Harry have to sign up to get rolled over by vastly more experienced and equipped players in the mode that is designed to be played by long-time players?

Here's a thought: If you're trying to pad the numbers of people who play FP, consider why nobody wants to play that mode in the first place. And then, realize that removing QP and trying to force people into FP will instead result in people quitting the game entirely. This is nothing if not a bad idea.

[kuma8877]

I have to echo Bud on this. From a game design standpoint the idea has some structural merit to it. The problem is where we currently stand today. FW isn't the proper endgame content lure it would need to be, to be able to layer the different gamemodes properly around FW as proposed in the OP.

As it stands, FW just doesn't have enough meat on its bones to support a player base shift like this. If it did, more of us would already be there taking part in it and something like this would likely already be the structure of MWO. It's a good idea, just not very practical given reality.

[Sunstruck]

Quick play is the only thing holding whats left of this game together.

Solaris needs to prove itself or it could turn out even worse than CW.

[LordNothing]

justcallme A S H, on 05 January 2018 - 03:51 PM, said:

Many players have demonstrated time and time again they have no clue of the difference between organised play and comp, unfortunately.

I mean look at FP - Which of the Div A teams, play it in large numbers, regularly.

Not one team.

You don't see EmP / D5 / 228BW / EON / RJF / SiG / Oz / -42-etc etc in FP, ever. Maybe a player or two here/there but that is it.

You occasionally see 228 Oceanic + Friends (Usually drunk Fri drops) & JGx (usually in small numbers) but that's honestly about it as far as the top comp teams and FP go.

But alas people will still claim what they believe is true even in the face of evidence/fact/reality.

ive seen both eon and emp members in fp games. i never see them dropping together, usually its just one of them usually grouped with another unit. i saw several players after the mwowc. i dont expect to see them while they are training for comp or playing in the tourney actual. never seen the whole team drop though.

Edited by LordNothing, 05 January 2018 - 06:54 PM.