69 replies to this topic

[Moochachoo]

Does space faring aliens exist in BattleTech universe? Iv been reading up the wiki, there are references to alien plant and animals, but no contact with intelligent alien spiecies.

What are your thoughts on the addition of aliens to the BattleTech universe? Maybe they are master genetic engineers and they are capable of creating giant bio titans, or they are cyborgs capable of deploying massive robotic armies.

[Bombast]

Theres one confirmed sentient race race of birds out side the inner sphere (Low tech level), and one quazy smart swamp ape thing. That's it. Years of Battletech lore masters have decreed no more aliens though, and I agree with them - this isn't Star Wars. Battletech is about us, not aliens.

Also what you're asking for is just 40K, but I'm sure you realized that.

Edited by Bombast, 06 January 2018 - 07:42 AM.

[Koniving]

I have a total of 11 space-capable aliens so far.

That's either can live in space and attaches to your haul, or hitches a ride with you. None of them are capable of space flight on their own. None of them have any discernible sort of technology worth mentioning but the use of tools is not uncommon for at least four species, two of which are listed below.

The closest thing is the bird brains, but despite a whole novel dedicated to them their canonicity is "confirmed" yet... so obtuse that no character can possibly know that they even exist without being trapped in their weird plot of space in which you could never return. Even then they could use our tech after figuring it out... but you'll never find one of these in the Inner Sphere.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Tetatae
Bird brains.

It is also worth noting that Classic Battletech RPG (and all forms of Mechwarrior RPG prior to it) all have some means of "Creature Creation", so you were also free to create your own aliens and critters; these mainly functioned as animals though. Mechwarrior Companion had several example creatures, including the Ape-like and the Mech eating Megasaurs.



Strangely the description of these on Sarna... seem to describe an entirely different species that posses pink eyes, was about half the size of a person, and the guy that encountered them isn't even sure they were real. Read about them here.

Also their walk/run/sprint here indicates they're pretty human-sized, unlike the version described on the sarna page.

We've got Crana.

"But can survive" just about anywhere, including the vacuum of space for weeks.
If the team is unaware of the eggs, you'll easily have a space fairing species.


These little buggers also tend to 'accidentally' hitch-hike on vehicles that then end up on ships which then end up in space. Avoid standing under ventilation ducts, overhanging pipes and generally anything they can climb on since they like playing "DFA" and are otherwise too scared to prey on people.

Also: For some reason dogs in space is a thing. Especially when going to the planet with the above species. Problem is they also attack dogs... but like people, dogs can kill them too. Consider a dog an early warning system as you try to find a team of these on your ship like you're the latest security guard in Five Nights at Freddy's?

Edited by Koniving, 06 January 2018 - 09:26 AM.

[MechaBattler]

Seems like a missed opportunity. But given how much imbalance the introduction of the Clans caused. I'm not surprised no one was prepared to pull the trigger on adding a sentient spacefaring race.

Personally it would have been cool to see an alien race that genetically engineers bio-organic mechs. To where they can be adapted with different organs from the creatures of their home planet. Like an organ that causes high density spines to protrude from a particular body segment. Then combine that with a cryogen gland that allows you to shoot nitrogen out of the spines. Or something like that.

I get the feeling that the fan base, being as old on average as they are, would rage if they did introduced another race. Just look at Bombast's response ;3

[SilentScreamer]

MechaBattler, on 08 January 2018 - 11:40 AM, said:

Seems like a missed opportunity. But given how much imbalance the introduction of the Clans caused. I'm not surprised no one was prepared to pull the trigger on adding a sentient spacefaring race.

You're making a fairly big assumption that Battletech was made without space-faring alien sentients because they weren't up it rather than intentionally leaving aliens out to focus on Humanity. Plenty of popular science fiction has been written without "aliens", Dune and Battlestar Galatica are the first two to come to mind. The niche is driven by the plot that humanity's worst enemy is itself and what it creates. Not as popular as Ewoks or little green men from Mars, but still makes good entertainment.

MechaBattler, on 08 January 2018 - 11:40 AM, said:

I get the feeling that the fan base, being as old on average as they are, would rage if they did introduced another race. Just look at Bombast's response ;3

From a perspective of another "old" person, you should research about what was in the world news during the 1980s when the background for Battletech was written. Major superpowers facing off against each other for natural resources with the threat of use of nuclear weapons  constantly hanging by a thread.  Sound familiar?  Still seeing stuff like this in the news all the time unless you have your head buried in the sand. Learn from history or be doomed to repeat it.

Edited by SilentScreamer, 08 January 2018 - 01:11 PM.

[MechaBattler]

I'm talking about the older playerbase being more concerned with nostalgia and generally being hostile toward new ideas. From hating on Clans for breaking the game. Then all jihad and dark age stuff. If they were to introduce a new race. I doubt it would be well received. Especially since the whole thing has been allowed to remain the same for years. People get complacent and they don't want anything to change. Of course Battletech seems to be all about repeating itself.

[SilentScreamer]

MechaBattler, on 08 January 2018 - 01:11 PM, said:

I'm talking about the older playerbase being more concerned with nostalgia and generally being hostile toward new ideas. From hating on Clans for breaking the game. Then all jihad and dark age stuff. If they were to introduce a new race. I doubt it would be well received. Especially since the whole thing has been allowed to remain the same for years. People get complacent and they don't want anything to change. Of course Battletech seems to be all about repeating itself.

This is a difference in opinions: You think adding a space-alien adversary would make Battletech more interesting. You might be right. But us "older playerbase" see adding aliens as changing something integral to the Battletech franchise which is that humanity is the only major sentient species in the galaxy. It is not about nostagia, it is about keeping the core of Battletech intact, which is the story of humanities struggle against itself.

If you want to take robots or space fighters against aliens there are plenty of other IPs to use: Star Wars, Star Trek, Avatar, on and on and on.....

[MechaBattler]

Star Wars as a universe is boring as hell to me. Their ship designs bore me to tears. Star Trek designs infuriate me and the idea of a utopian human society is a joke. And there's something about Avatar that I can't take seriously.

Then you have 40k with all their over the top grim derp and pompous spes marines.

Don't get me wrong. I've watched all the movies and shows in question. Played games too.

I would love to see a cross between Babylon 5 and Battetech. Just more grounded and well thought out. Instead of fanciful adventures in spes.

Edited by MechaBattler, 08 January 2018 - 01:45 PM.

[jss78]

To OP, there's been exactly one mention of sentient aliens in BattleTech canon: this book with its strange bird men. It wasn't terribly well received. The line developers have dealt with this in a pragmatic way. The planet of the bird aliens (who aren't space-faring) was reached by accident due to a jump drive malfunction. Thus the location of the planet is not known, and no-one will ever be able to go there again. So while the bird-aliens are recognized canon, they are effectively out of the picture and we'll never hear of them again.



As far as this opposition to space-faring or sentient aliens, I think it's unfair to paint this as being some nostalgic curmudgeons.

BattleTech is simply focused on humans and how they manage in an interstellar setting, with all their inherent flaws. Basically a spatio-temporal extrapolation of human history -- and there's hell of a lot for one sci-fi franchise to chew on there. Introduce space-faring aliens and you have something different.

One might also argue that interstellar aliens aren't necessarily needed in sci-fi in general. There are lots of sci-fi like Firefly where we've colonized countless worlds, but haven't encountered aliens.

There's also a scientific basis, in that there's a significant school of thought thinking that humans might be "effectively alone" in the universe. Meaning, that while we suspect basic life might arise readily in suitable conditions, intelligent civilizations might be rare, and we might be unlikely to ever meet anything advanced even if we started interstellar colonization.

It's a matter of time scales -- consider the Earth for example. We've had basic life for perhaps 4 billion years, but advanced life for a relatively short time. So, if a space-faring alien came here, for the vast bulk of Earth's history they would've found a cyanobacterium, or at best some amphibian sitting in a pond.

[Bombast]

MechaBattler, on 08 January 2018 - 01:11 PM, said:

I'm talking about the older playerbase being more concerned with nostalgia and generally being hostile toward new ideas.

It has nothing to do with nostalgia. It's about preserving a focus and not generalizing the setting to the point where it has no flavor.

One of the nicer things about Battletech is that it hasn't succumbed to 'Kitchen Sink Syndrome,' like Star Wars and Star Trek have. Why some people hate that is beyond me.

MechaBattler, on 08 January 2018 - 01:11 PM, said:

From hating on Clans for breaking the game.

Clans did break the game. That's not a nostalgia issue - The vast majority of Battletech fans, today and at the time, liked the Clans thematically and story wise. They just didn't like how it broke everything.

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Then all jihad and dark age stuff.

The Jihad was a mess, and you'll find most people are annoyed not by the concept, but by the terrible execution of the story and how much of a mess the tech is. Again, not nostalgia, mostly technical issues.

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People get complacent and they don't want anything to change. Of course Battletech seems to be all about repeating itself.

I'd rather Battletech repeat itself than repeat someone else.

[MechaBattler]

Just because something new is introduced. Doesn't destroy or diminish what came before. Fans love to safeguard their favorite franchise to the point of suffocating. I know that some people have expressed they would rather this game die than it besmirch the memories of MechWarrior games past. Which if it did. We probably wouldn't be getting Battletech and definitely not MW5.

[Karl Streiger]

its not about new stuff - not for the most. Some might think heresy about the not dice rolling turn based battletech game of HBS.
But we are living in new times its a stupid idea to just mirror the stuff that was played 35years ago with pen & paper.

Its a pitty that PGI did not develope a different hitbox system - or did ignore values. Again something HBS did better - they multipled all the damage values by factor 5 - nothing fancy just that and suddenly you got a couple of possibility's.

However there is always the how stuff is delivered. Me for my part think that the Wizkids MW would have worked with some changes. Its not that bad for a game - maybe you should have provided the ability for people to have their "heat scales" and armor tracking papers.
I also think that Alpha Strike is a very poor translation but people even hardcore fans like it - so maybe its me who has problems.

Of course you can bring Aliens - the question is how would they make the game any richer in options?
The game does not need a climax and you don't need another army to sell more miniatures.
You already have a ****-load of options witch side to choose. By the way the Third Transfer is not a mess - not when you open your eyes and see the righteous beauty of Blakes doing. Compared to the introduction of the Clans its much better defined and balanced.

That bring us to the guys that hate Clans - I hate them story wise and from their implementation in the tabletop plus the logic of the written lore. It would be simpler do describe that those are aliens form a different dimension - I bet Stackpole wanted it this way - but the other writers could hold him back - so they have a background with holes you can fly a X-Wing through, or was it a Lusankya piloted by Hanse Davion?

Edited by Karl Streiger, 10 January 2018 - 12:44 AM.

[Koniving]

As far as ten second time slices, Clans really break the game unless used as intended with quite a bit fewer mechs. But even then you put their tech on an IS mech and there's yet more broken stuff.

I've found some ways that really balances them out by changing how damage works and defining variants of weapons and equipment, but at that point you either MUST play tabletop on a digital platform OR... the tabletop game becomes virtually unplayable due to the breakdown severely overcomplicating an already complicated tabletop board game. Once you gotta make up to a hundred rolls for a single weapon... there's just no point to it being done on paper anymore.

Admittedly the rigid logic for the Clans is quite a mixed bag. In some cases they are awesome, but then knowing how they are, you see them engage in something that is against everything that they are... and wonder why? And the answer is "Because the author needs it."

[InvictusLee]

THERE ARE ALIENS!!

They are just hiding in a borderlands Style Vault that was conveniently abandoned by Dahl 500 years ago.

[Khobai]

they should have introduced aliens with better tech than clans

then we could have a third faction that would make both IS and clans cry

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As far as ten second time slices, Clans really break the game unless used as intended with quite a bit fewer mechs. But even then you put their tech on an IS mech and there's yet more broken stuff.

if you played with battle value clan mechs were absolute trash

a clan medium had the same battle value as an IS assault

there was literally no way clans could win lol


we usually just did 5v8 (one star vs 2 lances) with the same tonnage, and that worked out well.

Edited by Khobai, 28 January 2018 - 08:25 PM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 28 January 2018 - 08:22 PM, said:

they should have introduced aliens with better tech than clans

then we could have a third faction that would make both IS and clans cry

Alien XL: Survive both side torso losses
Alien Endo: 4 slots
Alien FF: 4 slots, same weight savings as Endo
Alien DHS: 1 slot
Alien ballistics/missiles: Half weight of Clans (1/4 weight of IS)
Alien lasers: Even more damage and even more range
Alien ERPPC: Splash damage is the same as the pinpoint direct damage (10+10+10)

Sounds legit.

[Karl Streiger]

Khobai, on 28 January 2018 - 08:22 PM, said:

they should have introduced aliens with better tech than clans

then we could have a third faction that would make both IS and clans cry



if you played with battle value clan mechs were absolute trash

a clan medium had the same battle value as an IS assault

there was literally no way clans could win lol


we usually just did 5v8 (one star vs 2 lances) with the same tonnage, and that worked out well.

This was BV1

[50 50]

Ah Battletech.
The chance to explore the far reaches of space.
To discover strange worlds and seek out other intelligent life.
Then blast them to bits.

[Khobai]

Quote

Alien XL: Survive both side torso losses

survive 2 out of 3 side torso losses

[Hit the Deck]

LOTR is to DnD as BT is to Star Wars.

Low vs high fantasy setting and low vs high alien setting.

I think there could be an intelligent "alien thing" introduced to BT, but they/it must in any shape or form not physically resemble a human being, or how we evolve .Think an intelligent giant gas cloud slowly drifting through space. It would be even better if this thing was actually an ancient product of human/earth origin.

It goes without saying that this alien doesn't create BattleMechs (lol). But if we expand on that for gameplay reasons, supposedly we can learn from how they function to make something technologically useful which we can use in the battlefield.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 29 January 2018 - 01:58 AM.